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[Book Spoilers] EP501 Discussion


Ran
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The Wall

It was a shock to see, that they really would kill off Mance. Although I couldn't pictureTVMance as playing a joyful bard :lol: , he was played by a good actor... and btw: as much as I like Tormund, he is an even more unlikely joyful bard (and don't get me started by Rattleshirt). I guess, we wont get Abel at all.

I loved the scene, where Jon killed Mance, so he don't has to suffer. The dialogue between those two before was well played by both actors, but it was a little odd. I still didn't really get, why TVMance would not give in - his arguments didn't make sense to me at all.

I'm thinking that perhaps Brienne and Pod will do something similar to what Mance did in ADWD. Not in the sense that we will see them singing and stuff, but trying to get Sansa out of there.

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I think having Mance be glamoured would undercut the weight and impact of the burning scene to an enormous degree, enough so that, were that to happening, they wouldn't have spent so much time on it and it wouldn't have closed out the episode.

Exactly.

IMNSHO, it completely ruined the impact of the scene in the books, also.

Absolutely despise that plot line in the books... So horrible.

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Have you guys noticed they're trying to make us like Cersei and understand her motives.

First they give some of the bad things she does to Joffrey (killing all of Roberts bastards and having Mandon Moore try to kill Tyrion)

Then they make the Lannisters broke so she would have a reason not to pay back the Iron Bank.

And now they're making it look like Maergary is scheming to get rid of Cersei so she would have a reason to be paranoid.

Also, why would young Cersei waste one of her questions asking if she would be queen right after Maggy said she would marry the king????? Isn't that sort of implied that if you marry the king then you will be queen lol

Honestly? I'm fine with that. Book!Cercei is a total dumbass who embodies every Wicked Queen stereotypes possible, down to Snow White-esque prophecies and having someone practice black magic on her behalf. The show kept those, but they toned down how incredibly stupid she was, and not really to her detriment. She's a more interesting character as a result, albeit less entertaining I suppose.

As for what people say about the Sand Snakes, I cannot for the life of me understand how they are different from the ones in the books. ''Vengeance rawr!'', this was the extent of the characterization of them in the novels. They never grew past that. I do think making Ellaria the Crazy Widow is stupid at first flance, we'll see how it goes, but the SS are pretty much exactly like their book counterparts; B-movie bad girls.

The characters that I feel the show has badly mishandled are Jaime (post season 3), Renly, Loras and Catelyn. Stannis was on the list but his scenes I've seen in the first four episodes redeemed him in my eyes. 4 characters in such a massive cast, is an Ok score I find. It could have been better, definitely, and it could have been far worse. And off the top of my head there are at least 4 characters (Robert, Marge, Daario, Tywin) that are better in the show if you ask me. Changed, but better. There are also storylines that work better in the show, such as Arya + Sandor in S4 and Dany's arc in Meereen (for what I saw of it) in S5, albeit some are worse too sadly.

Edited by Jasta11
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We DO want Satin! Where is he?

He's not on the show.

The characters that I feel the show has badly mishandled are Jaime (post season 3),

Why? He returned, he wanted things to be the same. I think something will happen this season to convince him that his relationship with Cersei is fully dead, and which woman he loves.

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He's not on the show.

Why? He returned, he wanted things to be the same. I think something will happen this season to convince him that his relationship with Cersei is fully dead, and which woman he loves.

Hopefully, it feels like he's been sorta stuck since he returned/ sent Brienne on her journey. plus there was that whole botched Cersei/Jaime sex scene.

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Anyone think Maggy will come back? I saw someone on another forum complaining about how Maggy wasn't and old hag like in the books. I don't have a problem with that at all. But I was thinking, what if the reason she's young is because they'll have her character come back in some way? Maybe she's the old woman that Brienne is supposed to run into if the spoilers are correct. Perhaps she plays Ghost of High Heart except Brienne runs into her instead of Arya and the real GOHH? They'll have to change some, well most, of her dreams.


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When Littlefinger left Robin with Bronze Yohn, was the castle in the background Runestone? Or were they at one of the stops on the way down from the Eyrie, such as Bloody Gate, Gates of the Moon, Snow, Stone, Sky? Do the latter four even exist in the show? My bad if already discussed, can't search.

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I'm thinking that perhaps Brienne and Pod will do something similar to what Mance did in ADWD. Not in the sense that we will see them singing and stuff, but trying to get Sansa out of there.

Oh gosh I am so scared for pod. He is one of the purest characters in the show, the ultimate good when every other character has been touched by evil he is such an uncorrupted soul. Imagine if Ramsay gets his hands on him who knows what he will do to our dear sweet boy.

I always desired that in the end of the show Pod returns to the service of Tyrion after his training as knight is complete. Pod needs Tyrion to show him how to have fun, and Tyrion needs a friend like Pod who loves him for who he is and is always so loyal he is like a son to Tyrion. Brienne is too serious for Pod.

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Cersei needed Bob dead before Ned had the chance to spill the incest beans: she hated Robert for most of their marriage (at least in the books though perhaps not so much on the show) but it was Ned's ultimatum to leave Westeros with her children or he would tell Robert that the kids were Jaime's that sealed Robert's fate.

Actually, no, it didn't. When Ned met with Cersei, Robert was already on his hunt with his Lannister squire. Cercei's plan to kill Robert was in place for a while since we have Varys speculating in the books that Cersei's goading Robert to joust during the tourney for Ned's arrival in KL as one of the many times she tried to have Robert "die".

It would have been interesting to see what Cersei would have done if Robert hadn't been attacked by the boar but the story didn't want her to go down so soon, so Robert conveniently died.

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I am not any book encyclopedia expert. But I do know there is a lot of sex in the books, but the show has limited time so obviously they are cutting down on serious material and ofcourse money is an issue too and I have concur with all those who says the writers are exploiting nudity and wasting screen time. no one cares about loras and his play things waste of time. i also don't care for mel trying to take off her clothes it was so crass. too much time gets wasted on these scenes. i don't want to moral police but seems like the writers don't waste any chance to get women to strip.


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He's not on the show.

Why? He returned, he wanted things to be the same. I think something will happen this season to convince him that his relationship with Cersei is fully dead, and which woman he loves.

Season 4 has, among other things, the not-rape scene and Jaime having sex with Cercei in the White Tower. At this point, he was supposed to be moving away from her, not towards. And in season 5 he becomes suddenly worried about the enemies of the Lannisters, when previously he didn't give much thought to it? His character is all over the place. Add to that the seemingly pointless removal of the Tysha story before Tywin,s death, and I feel that the showrunners dropped the ball on Jaime.

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Season 4 has, among other things, the not-rape scene and Jaime having sex with Cercei in the White Tower. At this point, he was supposed to be moving away from her, not towards.

See, that's your problem. You're continuing to treat the books as a point of reference, and checking the show for compliance. Book!Jaime, sure, was moving from Cersei at that point already. Show!Jaime, however, staggered a bit more - he wanted things to be the way they used to be, which is an equally valid reaction. He'll change his mind when the showrunners decide that it's time for him to change his mind. They'll supply the motivation and the reaction then.

Your complaint is, basically, on the level of 'why hasn't the show killed Balon already'? Wait and see.

Edited by ADanceWithCats 😸
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See, that's your problem. You're continuing to treat the books as a point of reference, and checking the show for compliance. Book!Jaime, sure, was moving from Cersei at that point already. Show!Jaime, however, staggered a bit more - he wanted things to be the way they used to be, which is an equally valid reaction. He'll change his mind when the showrunners decide that it's time for him to change his mind. They'll supply the motivation and the reaction then.

Your complaint is, basically, on the level of 'why hasn't the show killed Balon already'? Wait and see.

His sister has done nothing but reject him, him "changing his mind" has no meaning. When your girlfriend breaks up with you, and then, later on, you call her up and tell her you're breaking up with her, it's silly. Jamie rejecting Cersei will be silly because he has already been rejected, thus, 'rejecting' her won't have any bearing on any type of redemption or change in the values and focus of his character.

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His sister has done nothing but reject him, him "changing his mind" has no meaning. When your girlfriend breaks up with you, and then, later on, you call her up and tell her you're breaking up with her, it's silly. Jamie rejecting Cersei will be silly because he has already been rejected, thus, 'rejecting' her won't have any bearing on any type of redemption or change in the values and focus of his character.

That's why I don't think he'll 'call her up and tell her he's breaking with her'. More like 'accept the inevitable, and not bother anymore' - which means that he'll be free to choose a new, positive direction for his life. How's that meaningless?

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