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[Book Spoilers] EP501 Discussion

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Illyrio Mopatis mentioned but absence unexplained, did I miss a line of dialog?

Would have liked to have seen Roger Allam , for continuity, even if he only stood around.

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This is a bit of a guess but are they setting up Loras vs. The Mountain? With no Kettles, will Cersei use Olyvar to point the finger at Loras being gay so the faith goes after him instead of Marg? She takes away her brother for her taking away her son so to speak.

I also think the show writers are very creative with names, we want you to meet Olyvar a young man in KL, and also meet Olly a young boy at the wall. Perhaps we get to meet an Olive as well a sassy lass from Dorne.

Edited by Ser Creighton

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From previews for next week, uhh..., are the CGI-VFX complete? The House of Black and White does not seem to be in Braavos!

Sitting the suburbs? What's the deal?

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HBO Go, Inside the Episode.

Cersei's 'prophecy' included because Cersei has a big story this season.

Sigh ... my least favorite story from Feast and Crows.

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I treat the book and the series as 2 different things.


I don't get annoyd by any changes that have happend up until this point, other than i want more Qyburn, but that applies to the books aswell. I think he is one of the more intresting non-main characters.



But i have alot of questions for this season.



Who will be the Kindly man? Jaqen H'ghar or new cast?


Where is Randyll Tarly and the Tyrell army?


Will Tyrion get straight to Mereen, or will he stumble into Mr. Friendzone?


Golden Company's whereabouts from the series aspect?


(I am not sure they will exlude Aegon section, maybe as the seaons Cliff Hanger?) They are known to shock the audience.


Will Stannis get the Wildlings or go for the Mountain Clans, Kastarks betrayl exluded from the series?


Will we get enough Martell, to backup the Martell Masterplan? ( i know Doran is casted, as well as the sand snakes, but their importance in the series i still question)


What the fudge is Petyr up to this season?


I kinda like Jamie Lannister, we can all expect him to be killed off this season. We see him in Dorne in the trailers, so expecting a Lannister to live in Dorne is not very likely considering The Vipers brutal death. As the Dornish are so passonate i sincerly doubt they will accept "the trial by combat" death he suffered. Also after The Mountain did admit killing and raping Elia and her children.



I don't think Margery will be arrested by the faith. In that case it has to be out of the blue. As the series barely show anything of her compared to the books. But the faith militant will rise, i think only Cercei will be arrested. Just need to see them...booobs. And finaly it will be good to see her Subdued and let's see more Kevan, i think he will be an awesome Tywin JR.

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But i have alot of questions for this season.

Who will be the Kindly man? Jaqen H'ghar or new cast?

After an unexplained mystery-ness we know that Tom Wlaschiha is back, but won't be called Jaqen or Kindly Man.

Kindly Man never called himself 'Kindly Man' in the books.

Edited by boojam

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After an unexplained mystery-ness we know that Tom Wlaschiha is back, but won't be called Jaqen or Kindly Man.

Ofcourse. not. They are no one :)

But nice, but i woinder how much of her training will be exluded/ included. Kinda bums be out i was hoping to see alot of the Kindly Man. Ohh well, can't have it all :)

But since it will be Tom W. again, will this, yet again, be a "father" and "daughter" relationship, or will it be more true to the books, what do you hink Boojam?

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Thought it was a decent episode. The slowness was expected and I think there was some good stuff in there, especially in how they framed Mance's demise and Jon's choice to put him out of his misery.

The only thing I really thought was off was the Jaime/Cersei scene. First off, Jaime talking about how all their enemies outside are going to try to divide them, is something even show Jaime shouldn't care much about. The last time they were in the sept together, Jaime didn't seem to care if anyone was to walk in them fucking, much less political considerations regarding the welfare of house Lannister.

Then there's Cersei's lack of any substantial reaction to the knowledge that Jaime sprang Tyrion, something that I think is not a reaction even the milder show version of Cersei would have, considering the last time in they were together in the sept she was telling Jaime to kill Tyrion in his cell.

It looks too much like the writers framing a conflict just so that it fits with the rest of their story boards. Freeing Tyrion put Cersei in enough conflict with Jaime to make him want to or her to send him off to Dorne, but not enough for her to want his head off immediately which would be the more realistic option.

I think that Cersei will show her anger in future episodes by breaking with Jaime and sending him out of KL

Ok......but it didn't show them traveling with a very large contingent......how will a dozen knights stand up to the Bolton forces?

It won't be a battle, but a betrothal. Unfortunately, Sansa is in for some brutal treatment from Ramsay. I wonder if HBO will keep that horrible sex with dogs thing that happened to poor Jeyne Poole. While HBO seems up for anything that can be provocative, I gotta believe that there are lines that won't be crossed.

I thought that, but Cersei still gets told she has 3 kids, when she clearly told Catelyn her eldest was stillborn. I feel like this show is forgetting itself.

Yes, although excellent with some details (costumes, sets, locations) they are pretty careless with some plot points.

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My gf, who has never expressed any opinion on Stannis one way or the other, lol'd at Mance saying 'he'll be a better King than those sitting on the IT for the last hundred years.'

Her actual words: "That's gotta be a top 5 all time 'I just met you, but...'

Edited by James Arryn

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Ofcourse. not. They are no one :)

But nice, but i woinder how much of her training will be exluded/ included. Kinda bums be out i was hoping to see alot of the Kindly Man. Ohh well, can't have it all :)

But since it will be Tom W. again, will this, yet again, be a "father" and "daughter" relationship, or will it be more true to the books, what do you hink Boojam?

Arya's story in Feast and Dance was most entertaining to me.

We shall see.

There is the Waif too, know she is cast , and the actress, a peculiar character in the book but a FM (faceless person?) Arya has almost as much interaction with her as with the KM.

It seems a modified 'Mercy' story will be towards the end of the season, I wonder about Arya's training in the Braavos docks goes, which was in two parts in the books. Will they even have it?

It's only five chapters across two novels and can be compactified ... most of Arya's Braavos story does not need much rejiggering but where it lands in episode 10 may spoil Winds.

I also wonder will Arya's language training be done?

Will we see he FM 'council'?

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My gf, who has never expressed any opinion on Stannis one way or the other, lol'd at Mance saying 'he'll be a better King than those sitting on the IT for the last hundred years.

Her actual words: "That's gotta be a top 5 all time 'I just met you, but...'

LMAO. Speaking of, they seemed to be having a bit of a "moment" in their scene together.

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I think that Cersei will show her anger in future episodes by breaking with Jaime and sending him out of KL

It won't be a battle, but a betrothal. Unfortunately, Sansa is in for some brutal treatment from Ramsay. I wonder if HBO will keep that horrible sex with dogs thing that happened to poor Jeyne Poole. While HBO seems up for anything that can be provocative, I gotta believe that there are lines that won't be crossed.

Yes, although excellent with some details (costumes, sets, locations) they are pretty careless with some plot points.

Ramsay did all that to a steward's daughter. To a true Stark? How much his ego and need for validation will be stroked by such a marriage. I think Roose will have to be the one wary of Ramsay, not Sansa

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Making Maggy the Frog look hideous would have been too much of a cliche and distracted from the performance. Same goes for yet another battle scene.



I can't see how Littlefinger can marry Sansa to the Boltons while Cersei is alive and the Boltons need the support of the Lanisters. I got the impression LF was sending Sansa out of Westeros altogether.



Sansa's story arc to date has her entirely as the pawn of others. But she is showing some signs of breaking out of that role. A real Stark girl married to Bolton would kill him in his sleep pronto. That might be the point of course.



There is no problem in introducing a fake Aria now, an impostor has to be a nobody in any case. That would provide the motivation for Brienne/Pod to go north - they know she is an impostor.


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Arya's story in Feast and Dance was most entertaining to me.

We shall see.

There is the Waif too, know she is cast , and the actress, a peculiar character in the book but a FM (faceless person?) Arya has almost as much interaction with her as with the KM.

It seems a modified 'Mercy' story will be towards the end of the season, I wonder about Arya's training in the Braavos docks goes, which was in two parts in the books. Will they even have it?

It's only five chapters across two novels and can be compactified ... most of Arya's Braavos story does not need much rejiggering but where it lands in episode 10 may spoil Winds.

I also wonder will Arya's language training be done?

Will we see he FM 'council'?

Well to fit all this into the last 9 episodes let alone will be a challenge. I don't think we will get much depth in the House of Black and White. Considering they recast Tom W. i think they will put very little into the story of Arya leading up to her first job. Much because they use Tom W. rather then introducing a new character i think it's safe to say they do not want to spend much time introducing new characters. Which will result in what i belive alot of 1v1 interaction of Arya and "JH" to cut the dancing, and somewhere i think there will be a large timewarp. But what we are warping too i have no idea. Will Arya cross path with Dany, or will she return to westeros.

There to much "pressure" on the once she want's to kill, that we can be quite sure she will return to westeros at some point. But if the FM will accept her going to Westeros, or send other FMs after her as she deserts, or what will happen is very hard to predict. We need a new book, and more Arya chapters before we can speculate closer to what happens further. But i personally think that since they don't bother to spend time to introduce the Kindly Man, they want to "rush" this, and we might even expect her to pull off the first job before this season is over.

On the matter if we will see a FM council, i must honstly say i don't think so. I predict Arya's story will be rushed, and she will go to Westeros allready the next season.

But i dare not speculate on who she will "handle" first. (by presuming she will return to Westeros, never know with GRRM).

But then agian, we need to start seperate theorycrafting from the series, and the books. I am starting to confuse mysel.

In this season i think Arya is the Wildcard, i think most of the upredictable changes will happen in Essos, with Arya and Dany.

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Ramsay did all that to a steward's daughter. To a true Stark? How much his ego and need for validation will be stroked by such a marriage. I think Roose will have to be the one wary of Ramsay, not Sansa

Remember that, in the TV show, Ramsay's less of a brute and more of a charismatic psychopath. For a time, at least, he would treat Sansa well. Not for long - but we almost certainly wouldn't see the same wedding night behaviour as in the book.

Not entirely sure what the policy on spoilers from unpublished GRRM material is, so I'll tag the stuff from the latest Sansa chapter below:

In that chapter, there's some dialogue when Sansa is telling Harry the Heir that he'll have to get rid of his girlfriend(s?). I'm guessing Show-Sansa will be using that dialogue with Ramsey in Winterfell, in regards to Myranda. Like Arya's Mercy chapter last year was released prior to the show's use of some of its material, I suspect the same is going to happen with Sansa's material.

Edited by lostinasia

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HBO Go, Inside the Episode.

Cersei's 'prophecy' included because Cersei has a big story this season.

Sigh ... my least favorite story from Feast and Crows.

Up till now, Cersei has believed she could do as well as any man and is discounted because she is a woman. Well now she gets her big chance and unlike Tyrion, she is a complete disaster.

The prophecy also establishes how Cersei has always been a nasty piece of work. When Maggy refuses to give a reading, Cersei's first resort is to threats of having eyes gouged out.

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My gf, who has never expressed any opinion on Stannis one way or the other, lol'd at Mance saying 'he'll be a better King than those sitting on the IT for the last hundred years.'

Her actual words: "That's gotta be a top 5 all time 'I just met you, but.

Stanis would be a known quantity. He was the kings brother and one of the most powerful men in the land. Of course Manse knows him.

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Well i think there are more people in Essos, but alot easier to unite the people of Westeros, then get to unite Essos. To many diffrent powerplayers.


How awesome would it not be if anyone allied up with the Others in the series. Keep in mind that Sam Tarly did not get killed, and he went Eye to Eye. So who is to say the white walkers are all bad in the series?



And they did leave some wildlings alive, even accepted sacrifice from them. So i think we have a power player here. Maybe not all evil?


Edited by Hannibalurg

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Would have liked to have seen Roger Allam , for continuity, even if he only stood around.

Totally. And they would have reached perfection if they had also filmed the two scenes in the Maltese villa from the first season (the first in the "bath room" where Dany and Viserys were introduced, and the second in the balcony by the sea).

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