Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP501 Discussion

Recommended Posts

Anyone else notice that this was the first time we've seen Jon Snow use a bow and arrow in the show? He used a crossbow last season (on Tormund), but it's nice to see his proficiency with a weapon other than a sword in the show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing I really thought was off was the Jaime/Cersei scene. First off, Jaime talking about how all their enemies outside are going to try to divide them, is something even show Jaime shouldn't care much about. The last time they were in the sept together, Jaime didn't seem to care if anyone was to walk in them fucking, much less political considerations regarding the welfare of house Lannister.

Then there's Cersei's lack of any substantial reaction to the knowledge that Jaime sprang Tyrion, something that I think is not a reaction even the milder show version of Cersei would have, considering the last time in they were together in the sept she was telling Jaime to kill Tyrion in his cell.

It looks too much like the writers framing a conflict just so that it fits with the rest of their story boards. Freeing Tyrion put Cersei in enough conflict with Jaime to make him want to or her to send him off to Dorne, but not enough for her to want his head off immediately which would be the more realistic option.

The Jaime / Cersei dynamic is confusing / inconsistent in the show, I agree. But with Tywin dead suddenly (and Varys and LF and Tyrion all gone), it is somewhat plausible that Jaime would suddenly start thinking "uh oh, I need to care about politics now." Before that, Jaime always knew that Tywin and the advisors would handle the politics. But now it is just him and Cersei, with the dubious help of Pycelle. So it is logical that he'd have spent his vigil wondering what to do next.

It was pretty interesting that there was no discussion this episode about the new Hand of the king. I've been wondering if Cersei would simply refuse to appoint a new one this season, and if that would be a point of contention between her and the Tyrells, who would obviously want Mace to become Hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well to fit all this into the last 9 episodes let alone will be a challenge. I don't think we will get much depth in the House of Black and White. Considering they recast Tom W. i think they will put very little into the story of Arya leading up to her first job. Much because they use Tom W. rather then introducing a new character i think it's safe to say they do not want to spend much time introducing new characters. Which will result in what i belive alot of 1v1 interaction of Arya and "JH" to cut the dancing, and somewhere i think there will be a large timewarp. But what we are warping too i have no idea. Will Arya cross path with Dany, or will she return to westeros.

There to much "pressure" on the once she want's to kill, that we can be quite sure she will return to westeros at some point. But if the FM will accept her going to Westeros, or send other FMs after her as she deserts, or what will happen is very hard to predict. We need a new book, and more Arya chapters before we can speculate closer to what happens further. But i personally think that since they don't bother to spend time to introduce the Kindly Man, they want to "rush" this, and we might even expect her to pull off the first job before this season is over.

On the matter if we will see a FM council, i must honstly say i don't think so. I predict Arya's story will be rushed, and she will go to Westeros allready the next season.

But i dare not speculate on who she will "handle" first. (by presuming she will return to Westeros, never know with GRRM).

But then agian, we need to start seperate theorycrafting from the series, and the books. I am starting to confuse mysel.

In this season i think Arya is the Wildcard, i think most of the upredictable changes will happen in Essos, with Arya and Dany.

We never really know 'who' the Kindly Man is, for matter Jaqen, is that the real Jaqen's name day face?

As far as the books go the Kindly Man could be Jaqen!

I know when TW was hired back before season 2 D&D told him he was to be Arya's 'teacher' , not much of that went on season 2, so not surprising Tom was brought back, seems that was the idea all along but they did not tell Wlaschiha , I guess? (With one year contracts I don't know how they expect the actors to plan long term.)

The

Blind Girl

bit is one of those quirky surprises D&D like, but then they have surprised me by not always picking those.

I am surprised sometime by how much story they do get into a short amount of time so the best parts of Arya's five chapters may be in season 6.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After an unexplained mystery-ness we know that Tom Wlaschiha is back, but won't be called Jaqen or Kindly Man.

He is called Jaquen H'Guer in the credits on HBO Go.

Edited by mdrichey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that is what LF is doing, there must be some planned double cross. LF has spent all this time and energy gaining Sansa's trust/loyalty (or the appearance thereof). Seems like he would know he's throwing that away by giving her to the bastard son of Rob's betrayer.

Oh I definitely agree, but it will most certainly backfire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, I officially christen that blond guy 'Gay Roz'.

He seems to pop up half naked all over the place now.

Oh, and while I liked pretty much every scene, the Brienne/Pod scene seemed entirely pointless. Didn't advance plot or character one little bit; they could have covered the sense of Pod wanting to tag along in just a line or 2 near the beginning of a scene that actually mattered. I know it was supposed to be a 'that close' deal with Sansa...where the fuck is LF going, anyways...but it was a non-scene, really.

Edited by James Arryn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We never really know 'who' the Kindly Man is, for matter Jaqen, is that the real Jaqen's name day face?

As far as the books go the Kindly Man could be Jaqen!

I know when TW was hired back before season 2 D&D told him he was to be Arya's 'teacher' , not much of that went on season 2, so not surprising Tom was brought back, seems that was the idea all along but they did not tell Wlaschiha , I guess? (With one year contracts I don't know how they expect the actors to plan long term.)

The

Blind Girl

bit is one of those quirky surprises D&D like, but then they have surprised me by not always picking those.

I am surprised sometime by how much story they do get into a short amount of time so the best parts of Arya's five chapters may be in season 6.

No. Kindly Man is not Jaqen in the books. Jaqen is the Alchemist in AFfC prologue and later Pate in Sam's last chapter in the same book.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at discussions around the internet by show only watchers, they are wondering what exactly Varys sees in Dany that makes him think that she'd be a much better ruler than Stannis. I think this is a serious problem with how they took the shortcut of elimination FAegon and make Varys a Dany supporter. The idea that Varys, who has not so much as ever met Dany, would be all aboard her train as the best option for the the throne is a little hard to swallow.

Varys told Tyrion back in season 2 that he could never support Stannis because he fears and hates Melissandre's magic. Though that opens up the problem of how Varys sees Dany's magic. Which might be why he wants to go meet her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. Kindly Man is not Jaqen in the books. Jaqen is the Alchemist in AFfC prologue and later Pate in Sam's last chapter in the same book.

We don' really know if Pate is Jaqen, but then we don't really know who Jaqen is!

Anyway we will never see Pate again, even if that was him the first time.

Edited by boojam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing, finally, an episode where we know Natalie Dormer was actually in Croatia season 5.

Even tho we knew that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The episode was rather boring.

Looks like Lancel's wounds made him stronger rather than weaker.


Oh that Lancel surely put some weight. And age. I think I liked him better as a boy with long hair. Now he remindes me of Jesse Spencer from House M.D.

Yup. Cieran is a great actor. Loved his Caesar too.

CiarĂ¡n Hinds was really good this episode. I hate the stupid theory of M=R, but I could picture that with Mance with the looks and expressions from his scene with Jon.

"You will have three...and a black-haired child whom you will never speak of again, except for two occasions 15 years later."

That proves that she was not telling the truth to Catelyn for some reason. Or maybe that - in wildnings' fashion - they count only children of 2 years and older. But of course that was a scenario fail.


Other thoughts:

* Missandey + Grey Worm again. That is so bad. I don't know enough bad english words to express my feelings on this filler relationship.

* Sansa: why did she dye her hair if she didn't hide her identity from a whole crowd of people last season?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Varys is going to Meereen? Will Kevan Lannister and Pycell survive? And where in the west is Littlefinger with Sansa going? West to the kingsroad? Heading somewhere noone can find her....?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Varys is going to Meereen? Will Kevan Lannister and Pycell survive? And where in the west is Littlefinger with Sansa going? West to the kingsroad? Heading somewhere noone can find her....?

Well Petyr is Lord of Harrenhal. Might take up seat on Harrenhall. But what they are doing with Sansa, only the gods know. Petyr might travel the country and plot and scheme, and Sansa can be his apprintice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Petyr is Lord of Harrenhal. Might take up seat on Harrenhall. But what they are doing with Sansa, only the gods know. Petyr might travel the country and plot and scheme, and Sansa can be his apprintice?

HH is much closer to KL and very vulnerable ATM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That proves that she was not telling the truth to Catelyn for some reason.

She also talked about him with Robert. The kid was real.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She also talked about him with Robert. The kid was real.

I don't remember that, when did she talk to Robert about the dead baby?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Making Maggy the Frog look hideous would have been too much of a cliche and distracted from the performance. Same goes for yet another battle scene.

I can't see how Littlefinger can marry Sansa to the Boltons while Cersei is alive and the Boltons need the support of the Lanisters. I got the impression LF was sending Sansa out of Westeros altogether.

Sansa's story arc to date has her entirely as the pawn of others. But she is showing some signs of breaking out of that role. A real Stark girl married to Bolton would kill him in his sleep pronto. That might be the point of course.

There is no problem in introducing a fake Aria now, an impostor has to be a nobody in any case. That would provide the motivation for Brienne/Pod to go north - they know she is an impostor.

Already addressed. With Tywin dead, Cersei will have bigger fish to fry in the capitol. ESPECIALLY with 70,000 Tyrell bannermen camped in her backyard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does Varys in Pentos/Mereen bother people so much? He was completely absent during AFfC and ADwD and only showed up at the end to murder a few important people. Varys went into hiding immediately after Tywin was killed, so him not going back to KL really isn't that big of a detour. Replacing Illyrio with Varys was pretty expected - lots easier (on the Unsullied) than bringing back a character who was in two episodes at the beginning of Season 1.



I'm totally on board with the criticism of Varys spilling the beans on his entire scheme in 13 seconds, but him being in Essos doesn't really affect anything, I don't get the beef.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember that, in the TV show, Ramsay's less of a brute and more of a charismatic psychopath. For a time, at least, he would treat Sansa well. Not for long - but we almost certainly wouldn't see the same wedding night behaviour as in the book.

Not entirely sure what the policy on spoilers from unpublished GRRM material is, so I'll tag the stuff from the latest Sansa chapter below:

In that chapter, there's some dialogue when Sansa is telling Harry the Heir that he'll have to get rid of his girlfriend(s?). I'm guessing Show-Sansa will be using that dialogue with Ramsey in Winterfell, in regards to Myranda. Like Arya's Mercy chapter last year was released prior to the show's use of some of its material, I suspect the same is going to happen with Sansa's material.

YUP. I have theorized for awhile that Jeyne's scene will be done ot Myranda instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×