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[Book Spoilers] EP501 Discussion

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I think it's obvious LF is brokering a marriage between Sansa and Ramsey. The real question is whether he plans to double cross the Boltons or if this is legit. Whatever LF's plans are I'm sure Ramsey will make them go up in flames and then it will be up to Sansa and/or someone else to save the day.

The Lemon cakes will riot if she marries Ramsey

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Here's the weekly "Why Game of Thrones sucked tonight"

1.) They left out the entire fucking point of the Maggy the Frog prophecy scene, the Volanqar. Why bother with the flashback if you're going to cut the most important part?!

2.) No stench at Tywin's funeral, way to take out the fucking best part.

3.) No Illyrio despite staying at his fucking house

4.) Varys just casually revealing his organization and its motives to Tyrion, fuck off D&D. And what's this defending the downtrodden nonsense from him? He's a fucking Targ loyalist. Not to mention they're having him go off on Tyrion adventures instead of staying in King's Landing and owning shit up like he should. Fucking character assassination.

5.) Missandei and Grey Worm bullshit STILL. STILL. STILLLLLLL. Really D&D?! You have to cut Euron, Victarion, Wyman, Aegon, Connington, and nearly everything else that makes the most-ASOS books interesting yet you still have the time to include fucking Missandei and Grey Worm scissoring?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?

6.) Characterizing the Faith Militant has some sort of fanatical homophobic ISIS instead of the charitable people's army of war refugees they are in the book. D&D are unable to place themselves in a medieval society, instead inserting the "Hurrrr religion bad" 2015 worldview into somewhere it doesn't even belong. Believe it or not, the Faith Militant/Sparrows are not meant to be antagonists unless you're Cersei.

7.) Oh look, it's Loras. I wonder how long until D&D reference that he's gay. Oh, that was about 1 minute. You realize in the books it's just heavily implied Loras is gay and he has an actual personality/character traits besides being a running gay joke/reference? D&D are unable to take characters outside of their diversity quota mold.

8.) Brienne actually ran into BOTH Stark girls by sheer coincidence. Do D&D think Westeros is the size of Disneyland or something?!

9.) What the fuck is with this bullshit Sansa-Winterfell storyline. You know they're going to Winterfell based on the trailer. So Stop trying to force "Dark Sansa" (I didn't even coin this fucking bullshit cringey term) down our throats and stop making LF out to be an idiot. Fucking strong independent women Sophie Turner bad acting bullcrap.

10.) Mereen ALREADY FUCKING SURRENDERED. BRAVO D&D. There goes the entire battle of book 5 and half of its material. Why even bother with the Sons of the Harpy when Yunkai is doing nothing?! This is so nonsensical, first they're desperate for Dany material to adapt then they take out her biggest fucking challenge after arriving in Slaver's Bay. I guess this season will just be Dany bitching about MUH DRAGONS again.

11.) That fucking stupid kid that killed Ygritte is a recurring character now? Oh fuck off with that crap. I bet they'll have him kill Stannis, Jon, and the Night's King while they're at it.

12.) There's no indication or foreshadowing that really wasn't Mance, like in the books. If they killed him off for good, fuck you D&D.

Don't worry folks, I'll be here all season, reminding you why the books are better.

This is a reflection of how I was feeling while watching the episode. Much unnecesary changes.

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Stanis would be a known quantity. He was the kings brother and one of the most powerful men in the land. Of course Manse knows him.

"Knowing him" and "knowing of him" are two different things.

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All in all I like the show.... but it seems to me that the more they deviate from the books, the more they seem to dumb the show down...



Littlefinger in the show is starting to look like he is flying by the seat of his pants more and more instead of being the calculating master of puppets, the same can be said about Roose Bolton and Varys...



These changes make things less open to interpretation, and do not really allow for the viewers to have differing opinions on what they watched as opposed to what is being read...I understand they only have so much screen time, but it seems like there is less need to go back and re watch episodes to re connect the dots as we do in the books.



I am not fond of them leaving out the Iron Islands, Aegon, or Lady Stoneheart... especially when they leave in tie ins, like The Rat King, or the Red Woman's Leeches. I feel by leaving out Aegon, it takes away from Varys and Illerio character, it removes the long game, in which smaller battles may be won or lost, but it is not affecting the end game.



Anyways too much tinkering so far IMHO is just watering down the story...that said I will continue to watch the show.


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I enjoyed the pacing. Some interesting changes that cause me to continue down the road of assuming the books and show will diverge more than most expect. Bad acting by some but overall fun.

Grey Worm romance is a complete waste of time. Make it stop.

I agree completely - at this point the show for me is solely 'fun' while waiting for the next book....it is what it is.

LOL at the the Grey Worm comment!

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<snip>

This isn't an episode 4 discussion. So stop.

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Well, I have mixed feelings about this.I finally gave it a 5. I'll try to justify this rating below.


As a reader who has enjoyed the books, I clearly would have liked a closer adaptation to the existing content. But I understand that changes had to be made in order for this series to be ported to television and try to view the show as a separate entity. Of course, I'm not able to block all the comparisons on my mind.

Knowing that, I became a fan of the show not because it was the same as the books, but because it succeeded at telling us an interesting story with complex/realistic characters. That's something that most TV shows fail to do.

So now that you know my point of view, Ill try to explain why I gave this episode a poor rating.


The good:


-Direction/SFX:

Game of thrones continues to be a stunning visual experience. The SFX scenes (fall of the Harpy, Dragons) are gorgeous, the locations and choices of photography ( Scenes at the sept arrival, glimpses of Pentos from the crate ...) are spot on. It's a joy to see the universe of the books coming to life.

-FLASHBACKS!!!!!

It's about time! At last some visions from the past. Young Cersei casting was spot on.

-Unsullied brothel scene:

So the unsullied are not just robot-like soldiers. I really appreciate when the show takes the time to show us more about the characters.

Danny the queen:

Good scenes showing us her political side.

Jon/Stannis scene:

Good scene between the two "true to their word" characters. Great dialogues and a good proposition by king Stannis.

-The pyre scene:

Great acting by Mance and satisfying finish.


And now the bad:


-Maggy's casting:

Why every girl on the show has to be attractive? I understand that casting an old, frog resembling actress must not be easy and certainly seems a bit cartoonish, but casting a good looking/ laughing maniac one seems as cartoonish to me and doesn't add anything to the history. For a show so preoccupied with racial diversity (casting of Salladhor, Xaro Xhoan and Aero Otah,...), they really doesn't seem to be interested in having "beauty" diversity. Ugly people also deserve to be cast!

-Cersei/Jaime relation:

What a difference between this scene and the one from last year. Are we sure they're still the same people? I understand that things have changed, but still.

-Varys's plan:

So, this scheming, complicate mind reveals his complete plan in like 10 seconds! He was a Targ loyalist all along. Really doesn't seemed like it when he tried to poison Daenerys on season 1.

-Nudity galore!

I guess this is a recurring theme from the previous seasons. Yeah, GoT is a mature show, but they don't have to shove it down our throats just because they can! The Meeren brothel scene really made me laugh (in a bad way!) And I'll talk about Loras later.

-Missandey/Grey-Worm, Jon/Olly...

Like I've said earlier in the good section, I tend to appreciate little scenes where D&D try to expend relations between characters. But these scenes have to be good in order to be worthy of screen time. In this episode, Missandey seemed more interested in knowing if unsullied could have sex than worried about the dangerous situation where Grey Worm now is, and the student/tutor relation between Jon and Olly would be more appropriate in a bad soap.

Jon and Mellisandre:

Mel wants Jon cock! Is that what D&D believe to be the most important thing on their relation? I can already see a scene where Mel will try to seduce him. Naked, of course. Because why not!

LF/Sansa:

Between the trailers spoilers and this episode content, I don't understand how some people still don't believe that Sansa is going to marry Ramsey. It seems that D&D are really trying to find some shortcuts, and I'm OK with that. The problem is that all of it seems really simplified and without thinking about the consequences. I'm waiting to see how they could sell me that Sansa will be ok with that, and I fear it will be some basic reason like vengeance. "Marry him to avenge your family Sansa, you'll look so bad-ass with your black air! It all make sense. Don't worry about marrying a psycho and being put in danger, lol".

Coincidences:

Of course, Sansa and LF had to pass by Brienne and Pod. How small is Westeros, really?

-Loras

You know what, he's GAY. Well, I guess we've understood now.Everybody knows that Loras is only the gay brother of the slutty Margaery, son of the Buffoon Mace and Grandson of the bad-ass Olenna. Who cares about his personality, right!

-Lancel and Kevan:

I'm really happy to see them again, but boy do they appear out of nowhere. I wish we could have some scene to reintroduce them less brusquely, but sadly there's no time for that because we had to see Loras's Dorne shaped mole and Daario's butt.

-Jon/Mance conversation:

Talk about illogical conversations! Mance, who was ready to go to war with the entire seven kingdoms in order to let his people pass south of the wall, now refuse Stannis's deal because he doesn't want them to go to war?Also, it's not because of his pride that he doesn't bend the knee, it's because...no reason. But he says the badass punchline "fuck my pride", so yeah, it magically becomes a good scene.


I hope I've succeeded in showing you guys how I feel about it all. Like I've said in the beginning, I'm not angry because the show is different of the books, I'm angry because, in my opinion, it is beginning to fail at telling an interesting, well thought story. Instead, we now have a show more interested in punchlines and fan favorites (who have become the bad-ass versions of what they used to be).


I normally don't post on the forums because I'm sure someone is going to tell me to stop being such a "book purist" or that I'm just grumpy and that this season will be awesome and will "fix the bad books", but that's not how I see it.


I'll continue to watch the show because I'm still interested in knowing in witch direction they're going, but I'm actually now more curious than excited.


Thanks for reading this big block of text and sorry for my bad English, but I really had to express my feelings to the world.

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Double post. That's what I get for using a mobile device.

Edited by nara

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All in all I like the show.... but it seems to me that the more they deviate from the books, the more they seem to dumb the show down...

Littlefinger in the show is starting to look like he is flying by the seat of his pants more and more instead of being the calculating master of puppets, the same can be said about Roose Bolton and Varys...

These changes make things less open to interpretation, and do not really allow for the viewers to have differing opinions on what they watched as opposed to what is being read...I understand they only have so much screen time, but it seems like there is less need to go back and re watch episodes to re connect the dots as we do in the books.

I am not fond of them leaving out the Iron Islands, Aegon, or Lady Stoneheart... especially when they leave in tie ins, like The Rat King, or the Red Woman's Leeches. I feel by leaving out Aegon, it takes away from Varys and Illerio character, it removes the long game, in which smaller battles may be won or lost, but it is not affecting the end game.

Anyways too much tinkering so far IMHO is just watering down the story...that said I will continue to watch the show.

I might be mistaken, but there was no Roose in the first ep, was he?

Edited by King Tyrion I

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Coincidences:

Of course, Sansa and LF had to pass by Brienne and Pod. How small is Westeros, really?

Hardly something that the books don't also do.

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Totally agree w/ Valetudo about Kevan.

This is Tywin's brother. I think he deserved more than a quick pop-up scene.

I would've liked to have seen him entering the Sept & viewing his brother's body, maybe say a few words, see some emotion. It didn't need to be a long scene. But certainly a brief period of time fleshing his character out even a little bit would have been more productive than, say, the Loras-Olyvar scene mole scene.

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Hardly something that the books don't also do.

True, but it really seems too much for me for Brienne.

Last season, she already encounters by chance Aria and now Sansa. With all this luck, she has to buy a lottery ticket.

Edited by Valetudo

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I was shocked to see that show Loras is still gay. Also the show continues to improve upon the books. The show came up with that great way of tying two loose ends together by having Hound fight Brienne. Then last night the show streamlined the Robert Arryn problem by having Petyr drop the kid off at daycare, which will probably last all season long! Excellent. It's fun that they're doing their own thing. It's alive that way. There's a reason to watch.


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True, but it really seems too much for me for Brienne.

Last season, she already encounters by chance Aria and now Sansa. With all this luck, she has to buy a lottery ticket.

If you take into account the geography of the Vale and assume that they take the main road out of it, then it is not at all so unlikely that people meet on this road.

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We never really know 'who' the Kindly Man is, for matter Jaqen, is that the real Jaqen's name day face?

As far as the books go the Kindly Man could be Jaqen!

I know when TW was hired back before season 2 D&D told him he was to be Arya's 'teacher' , not much of that went on season 2, so not surprising Tom was brought back, seems that was the idea all along but they did not tell Wlaschiha , I guess? (With one year contracts I don't know how they expect the actors to plan long term.)

The

Blind Girl

bit is one of those quirky surprises D&D like, but then they have surprised me by not always picking those.

I am surprised sometime by how much story they do get into a short amount of time so the best parts of Arya's five chapters may be in season 6.

Yes, that's why i love the series and the books. Because we can simply just speculate on this stage. I was also surprised that Tom was brought back. But keep in mind they do shoot scenes long ahead of the story. Like The Red Wedding, was shot before some of the talks were filmed with Jamie in the prison pen. Simply because the location was more directly approriate to shoot according to their "tour" of shooting scenes. (atleast what i'v read) And i do belive there was a back and fourth also for Ygritte (Rose Leslie), Where they shot the scenes at Castle black, before they shot the scene where they meet the Thenns and talk over the bonfire. I am not sure, but i think i remember she saying it was strange that she shot scenes after her characters death in Castle Black. As we all know their budget was very tight at the time, and proberly still is. So i don't think we should speculate in the actors timeplans, let's leave that for Dan and David :)

But just to be clear, i am not 100% if that above is true or if i have mixed something up somewhere.

Currently listening to History of Westeros now, and somone said they might extend GOT to 10 seasons ( Season 5: Preview & Trailer Discussion (spoiler free) on soundcloud). If it goes to 10 seasons, we are barely halfway there. Nerdfeathers crossed we get 10 seasons!

Edited by Hannibalurg

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Given some of the previous first episode's to the season, I thought this was one of the better one's. There seemed to be less 'obligatory recap' and more setting up for this season.



The Good:



I liked seeing hints of vulnerable Dany, the stroppy bitch-queen persona was starting to grate. The tension when Dany went to see her dragons was good. Woah those things got big!



Mance was great and I enjoyed Stannis.



i still want to punch Sweetrobin, but I'm guessing that is the point.



The Bad:



Not a fan of Darth Sansa. Alayne from the books is supposed to be free, 'bastard brave' but here Sansa is pretty grim and miserable. I'm guessing with the hint from the trailers that Sansa is going to Winterfell that they are simplifying the Harry-Sansa, fArya-Ramsey stories by combining them. It's a shame, I would have really liked to see some of the Vale stuff.



Since when did Brienne get so grouchy! They have turned my two favorite characters into sour-pusses.



The Ugly:



How many naked man-butts were there this episode! Is this D and D's quest for equality?


Edited by Mad Madam Mim

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Yes, that's why i love the series and the books. Because we can simply just speculate on this stage. I was also surprised that Tom was brought back. But keep in mind they do shoot scenes long ahead of the story. Like The Red Wedding, was shot before some of the talks were filmed with Jamie in the prison pen. Simply because the location was more directly approriate to shoot according to their "tour" of shooting scenes. (atleast what i'v read) And i do belive there was a back and fourth also for Ygritte (Rose Leslie), Where they shot the scenes at Castle black, before they shot the scene where they meet the Thenns and talk over the bonfire. I am not sure, but i think i remember she saying it was strange that she shot scenes after her characters death in Castle Black. As we all know their budget was very tight at the time, and proberly still is. So i don't think we should speculate in the actors timeplans, let's leave that for Dan and David :)

But just to be clear, i am not 100% if that above is true or if i have mixed something up somewhere.

Currently listening to History of Westeros now, and somone said they might extend GOT to 10 seasons ( Season 5: Preview & Trailer Discussion (spoiler free) on soundcloud). If it goes to 10 seasons, we are barely halfway there. Nerdfeathers crossed we get 10 seasons!

I know from watching a couple recent interviews, Rose's last day on set (at least as an actor) was Ygritte's death. I've also heard she's with Kit now, so maybe she sees him on set from time-to-time. Who knows.

Think the one in particular I'm thinking of is something like "Round Table, The Departed." Also think she said it on a comic-con panel

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