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[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa XII - New direction


Mladen

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I've been enjoying reading this thread, and haven't commented here in a long time. I swore to leave this one alone until after we have more information than what little we were given in episode 1 but I'm caving in ... we'll have episode 2 tonight - so I'm jumping in!



In regards to Roose Bolton's logic behind marrying Sansa to Ramsay:






In addition, Roose also has no reasons to do such a stupid thing. He is now warden of the north, everyone knows what he did to the Starks. His supporters hate the Starks, so what legitimization could Sansa be? She is accused of kingslaying, the Lannisters will do anything to get her head. Just thinking of an openly marriage is ridiculous. Roose got his victory, he shurely doesn´t want another war. He is mostly hated in the north, insanity is the only reason to provoke his only allies in such a way for gettin nothing.





I can see your reasoning here behind why an openly legitimate marriage would be a risky choice for the Boltons, but in the scheme of the show (not the books) it makes more sense because they are not going with the fake Arya storyline nor have they put anything about the Manderly story arc either, so there's not as much detail other than the most obvious things going on with the Lannisters.



The Lannisters just took a major blow by losing Tywin - who left living is going to go to war against Roose Bolton just to get their hands on Sansa Stark? As we've already seen, Cersei is quickly losing hold on her power and isn't the Queen anymore - Margaery is. Cersei is the only one who is still angry enough to want Sansa dead and accusing her of helping Tyrion kill Joffrey (neither of whom did in fact kill Joffrey). The real killers of Joffrey aren't going to support a war against the North either and I think Roose Bolton knows this - he may even know who really killed Joffrey and how that makes things unstable for the new King and the Lannisters overall, don't you think?



Littlefinger has the same gambling bet as Roose in this game move ... both of them are counting on the turmoil at King's Landing (add to that the coming of the High Sparrow and all that) preventing another civil war between the crown and the north. That's already been played out and many lives lost both sides.



All that being said, I do sympathize with everyone's frustration over this massive change to the story even though I myself have never been a book purist and in the case of Sansa in particular, I think I've enjoyed her character more in the show than in the books. Still, I do not want to see her married to Ramsay Bolton and I certainly don't want her taking Jeyne Poole's place at the receiving end of Ramsay's sadistic tendencies. I've not enjoyed the bickering in the last few pages of this discussion over just who is more evil, Joffrey or Ramsay ... that is a somewhat pointless argument. They both are (were) extremely evil people who used their power over others in the worst way. The story is full of people like that and we sit on the edge of our seats hoping someone, anyone of worth can out maneuver the evil and survive on the chessboard that is our beloved Game of Thrones.



At this point, I am going to join the side that thinks Sansa is going to at least get close to marrying Ramsay Bolton and then some big plot twist (unknown) is going to happen and she's rescued, maybe by Theon, and somehow ends up with Stannis. It's anyone's guess if Stannis survives or not since we have no idea what happens to him after the siege on Winterfell, that's the last of the book, right?


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Except Duck, who has been cut :(

Hee, good one.

For those posters wondering why some posters think Sansa's going to get the Jeyne Poole treatment, there's a list I made with all the reasons, as well as a zap2it article by Terri Schwartz posted a while back. The list got cross posted to Reddit a while back as well.

To be honest, I don't see how D&D could get Sansa back on track with her book plot if she is married off to and brutalized by Ramsay, but if Book Sansa marries and winds up in Winterfell eventually, maybe it's not goIng that far off track. That assumes of course that Sansa will suffer no psychological after effects from getting the Jeyne Poole treatment or some version of it, but Sophie has already said that TV Sansa handles her hardships this season very differently, so who knows?

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You name it. She'll more likely help Ramsay torture Myranda in order to manipulate him or sth along these lines. Just wait for it

Agreed. Her change is in her not being the one being tortured but being present for and provoking anothers torture...and thats something Theon would be shocked to be apart of, to witness sweet lady Sansa being a manipulative seductress purposefully having someone harmed

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Hee, good one.

For those posters wondering why some posters think Sansa's going to get the Jeyne Poole treatment, there's a list I made with all the reasons, as well as a zap2it article by Terri Schwartz posted a while back. The list got cross posted to Reddit a while back as well.

To be honest, I don't see how D&D could get Sansa back on track with her book plot if she is married off to and brutalized by Ramsay, but if Book Sansa marries and winds up in Winterfell eventually, maybe it's not goIng that far off track. That assumes of course that Sansa will suffer no psychological after effects from getting the Jeyne Poole treatment or some version of it, but Sophie has already said that TV Sansa handles her hardships this season very differently, so who knows?

I try not to put too much stock in what the actors say in interviews. That got me in trouble from a previous season and I've learned to stop over-analyzing their often skewed interview quotes. Your list was impressive, I'll give you that. If that many of the main actors are saying similar things, it does lend one to believe they're going to do at least some part of the terrible unspeakable acts done to Jeyne Poole.

But - another show I love dearly threw viewers off entirely based on a couple remarks from actors during interviews leading up to the season finale. They were flat out wrong. Some fans were pissed about that and I had to think they (the show makers and the actors) did that entirely on purpose to throw people off the scent for spoiling the ending. The same thing could be happening here with GoT as well ... just sayin' - don't believe everything the actors say!

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Iwan Rheon has repeated in multiple interviews that ramsay does some disturbing stuff that even had him disturbed. I would take him at his word.

Oh I have no doubt they have plenty of terrible things in store for Ramsay to do this season - he's definitely seen as a major villain in the show and we need villains to make it interesting. But all the other quotes implying he's going to do those horrible things to Sansa are just hints and nothing outright so I only say be cautious how much stock you put in the words of the actors. They are actors after all and could be exaggerating to work up the fans. ;)

But like everyone else, I'm really really hoping they don't go there with that scene. Some things are just better left in the books and forgotten.

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Agreed. Her change is in her not being the one being tortured but being present for and provoking anothers torture...and thats something Theon would be shocked to be apart of, to witness sweet lady Sansa being a manipulative seductress purposefully having someone harmed

If they are having Sansa either doing harm or manipulating Ramsey to do harm to Miranda it's where she has to go if she is destine to betray the Boltons from inside we may not like that run but Miranda isn't a nice person either; I mean last year's episode with her and Ramsey's love making was bloody.

And if Theon is watching maybe he is seeing what a she wolf really is.

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Grail King

The first table clip I mentioned (in her black dress). About the 0:59 mark.

[Ok. The link didn't load. YouTube: Game of Thrones Season 5 Artisan Piece #2]

The second table clip from the second trailer. Also at the 0:59-1:00 mark.

https://youtu.be/F9Bo89m2f6g

Also, since you've seen past 1, the part (ep 3) after LF walks back to the horse and she stands there...and then she stops crying and gets serious...man!! Such good stuff. You can SEE the change in attitude. When you compare that scene with the scene after Tyrion tells her they're to wed (when she crys her eyes out, S3E6), you get the sense that this is not the same Sansa, and that Sophie Turner is correct in saying that she's in the same situation, but she reacts differently.

She IS different this season. You can see it. What a shame it would be for them to take her out of her own character's progression and put her into the role of a throwaway character's victimized storyline. I can't see that happening. Nothing of what I've seen tells me that will happen. It COULD, I won't deny it. I just...have a hard time believing it.

Found them thanks.

She was bitchin PO

and later her face to face with Roose was nice to see.

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If they are having Sansa either doing harm or manipulating Ramsey to do harm to Miranda it's where she has to go if she is destine to betray the Boltons from inside we may not like that run but Miranda isn't a nice person either; I mean last year's episode with her and Ramsey's love making was bloody.

And if Theon is watching maybe he is seeing what a she wolf really is.

the one way to manipulate ramsay is two pretend to like the things that he likes , ie hunting and flaying and just being all around terrible. In both the books and the show ramsay gravitates towards people who share his psychotic mindset. I could see them going with a scenario were ramsay does some nasty things to myranda and Sansa is forced to watch, but instead of freaking out she stays strong and seems to enjoy it ie manipulating ramsay into thinking she likes the same things he does.but this would be a massive change in her character.
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the one way to manipulate ramsay is two pretend to like the things that he likes , ie hunting and flaying and just being all around terrible. In both the books and the show ramsay gravitates towards people who share his psychotic mindset. I could see them going with a scenario were ramsay does some nasty things to myranda and Sansa is forced to watch, but instead of freaking out she stays strong and seems to enjoy it ie manipulating ramsay into thinking she likes the same things he does.but this would be a massive change in her character.

Theon has managed to stay alive by playing along with the Reek role, even if most of him is truly psychologically brainwashed, there's still a lot of Theon in there acting the part. Margaery tried the playing along tact with Joffrey, just long enough to figure out what a monster he was ... and Grandma took care of the rest I assume.

So along that theme, playing along with your captor is often a good tactic and perhaps one Sansa might try even if she's not very good at it, Ramsay doesn't seem to care or know if someone's sincere or just playing along. He likes that they're playing along with his game. If Sansa can figure that one out, she can survive and maybe he'll let his guard down long enough for her to get her revenge.

*Edit: She's also playing along with Littlefinger who seems convinced by her change of attitude at least - so she is learning, right?

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Found them thanks.

She was bitchin PO

and later her face to face with Roose was nice to see.

Oh man!!! That had to be one of the best scenes in all four episodes. For a moment there, I seriously thought she was going to hit him. Sophie Turner is freaking amazing in 3 and 4. Can't wait to see what's in store after those episodes. If/when we get a Sansa/Reek scene, that should be another home-run as both of those actors are phenomenal.

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If they are having Sansa either doing harm or manipulating Ramsey to do harm to Miranda it's where she has to go if she is destine to betray the Boltons from inside we may not like that run but Miranda isn't a nice person either; I mean last year's episode with her and Ramsey's love making was bloody.

And if Theon is watching maybe he is seeing what a she wolf really is.

You guys are trying soo hard to reject the reality. Sansa is getting tortured. There's no way around it.

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the one way to manipulate ramsay is two pretend to like the things that he likes , ie hunting and flaying and just being all around terrible. In both the books and the show ramsay gravitates towards people who share his psychotic mindset. I could see them going with a scenario were ramsay does some nasty things to myranda and Sansa is forced to watch, but instead of freaking out she stays strong and seems to enjoy it ie manipulating ramsay into thinking she likes the same things he does.but this would be a massive change in her character.

So far there are no hints that Sansa is Karla Homolka in the making.

Where as Myranda definitely is a full blown accomplice.

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