[Book Spoilers] Is Aegon truly gone for good?

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

They'll probably cut Aegon out totally. He just brings too much mess without show-watchers earlier investment. I mean readers are all into R+L=J, and Rhaegar is popular character with some wild theories around. Even without screentime. Because:books. But here? No reason at all to show him. The same about Iron Islands - no one cares. Not enough of earlier investment that they can be important in grand scheme of things.

Readers have a problem with new imporant character joining the crew, because they would rather read about old characters they already knew (thankfully Martin is cruel and he knows that history know no such thing as an estabilished cast). And D&D won't risk throwing so much new characters.

[Lord Varys]

Isn't season 5 supposed to kill off characters who are still alive in the books? The cast is going to get smaller, it seems. There could still be room for Aegon, especially if they combine his story with Dorne.

[PatrickStormborn]

Why delay introducing the Reeds a whole season when they could have easily been introduced in Season 2 at Winterfell? Why delay introducing Ramsay? For the large part D&D delay characters until they have some action that affects the plot. George likes to introduce you to a character so you know of their existence, might use them in a minor capacity, and then he shuffles them off screen until they return and have a larger effect on the plot. The best examples are Jeyne Poole, Lancel, Beric, Thoros, Robert Arryn, Lysa, Marillion, and Illyrio. The show simply cuts the "introduction" period in favor of going for when they're most needed.

I still think Aegon's cut, but if I were to argue for the possibility that he might be left in, that would be the best one. Having Tyrion meeting Aegon would accomplish little to nothing in this season. If he's in at all (which I highly doubt) he'll show up next season.

The Reeds and Ramsay could be delayed, but Aegon being delayed means they need to have Varys lie about his motivations and also delay his invasion of Westeros. It also means he has to be introduced by himself rather than through one of the major characters.

If Aegon was in, Varys would not have been given a monologue to justify his support of Daenerys. The reason they included it is because they had to (basically) retcon a few things from season 1. In that sense, the explanation is as much for the viewer as it is for Tyrion.

If Aegon is actually included, Varys could have just said "I'm a Targaryen loyalist", or something to that effect. He could have been cryptic. But if he's actually supporting Daenerys he had to explain why.

I think the show was pretty clear that the younger more beautiful queen is Margery not Dany, I really do not see a Cersai vs Dany battle in either show or book.

The show has made it clear that Cersei THINKS it's Margaery. That's it.

"Who said anything about HIM" may be interpreted as Varys was indeed talking about HER but there is also a HIM that Varys was not ready to share with Tyrion.

Lol, the show has never been that subtle.

[Tagganaro]

I definitely think Aegon is being cut. It makes sense to me. He's sort of extraneous as it is and it's not like a casual show-watcher will have any idea who he is. If the show is willing to cut out a character like Mance to condense, I believe they 100% would cut out Aegon as well. I actually wish GRRM did the same. If he could have cut out both Aegon and Quentyn, we'd probably have room for both the Battle of Mereen and Winterfell to be resolved in ADWD as they should have been.

[PatrickStormborn]

I definitely think Aegon is being cut. It makes sense to me. He's sort of extraneous as it is and it's not like a casual show-watcher will have any idea who he is. If the show is willing to cut out a character like Mance to condense, I believe they 100% would cut out Aegon as well. I actually wish GRRM did the same. If he could have cut out both Aegon and Quentyn, we'd probably have room for both the Battle of Mereen and Winterfell to be resolved in ADWD as they should have been.

Yes, but without Aegon we'd lose a good portion of the story he plans to tell in TWoW...

[Tagganaro]

Yes, but without Aegon we'd lose a good portion of the story he plans to tell in TWoW...

I agree, but I'm not sure how much it actually matters to the overall narrative. I mean, GRRM has become exceedingly fond of "world-building" in these last few books, to the point where all sorts of pointless characters and POVS take up space without much purpose...i.e Quentyn, a completely unncessary POV that could have been established in 1 page in Doran Martell's chapter and dispatched with in 1 chapter in Dany's POV.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't think Aegon is remotely "end game" material and will be dealt with one way or another to set the stage for Dany to simply replace him. I'm not sure how much purpose he really plays, and I'm not sure what the show is missing out on by not using him. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens in TWOW though and what role he plays.

[Titan]

the show is already bad without Lady stoneheart... but to cut Aegon is going to be really bad... he must be important!!!.... I don´t think George would bother to write so much about him in the last books if he isn't that important!

Oh sweet summer child! :rofl:

[PatrickStormborn]

I agree, but I'm not sure how much it actually matters to the overall narrative. I mean, GRRM has become exceedingly fond of "world-building" in these last few books, to the point where all sorts of pointless characters and POVS take up space without much purpose...i.e Quentyn, a completely unncessary POV that could have been established in 1 page in Doran Martell's chapter and dispatched with in 1 chapter in Dany's POV.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't think Aegon is remotely "end game" material and will be dealt with one way or another to set the stage for Dany to simply replace him. I'm not sure how much purpose he really plays, and I'm not sure what the show is missing out on by not using him. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens in TWOW though and what role he plays.

It depends what you think qualifies as "end game". I doubt Aegon will be important in resolving the conflict with the Others, but he's certainly going to be important in setting the stage for that conflict.

Without Aegon, Dany's conquest would be a lot more straightforward: she'd probably have the support of Dorne, and she's easily the best candidate between Euron and Tommen. Aegon complicates that and gives her a serious antagonist who actually draws support away from her and also provides a moral dilemma. He's also the key piece in Varys' decades-long plan, which ties back into the fall of the Targaryen dynasty and potentially the Blackfyre rebellions.

[Tagganaro]

It depends what you think qualifies as "end game". I doubt Aegon will be important in resolving the conflict with the Others, but he's certainly going to be important in setting the stage for that conflict.

Without Aegon, Dany's conquest would be a lot more straightforward: she'd probably have the support of Dorne, and she's easily the best candidate between Euron and Tommen. Aegon complicates that and gives her a serious antagonist who actually draws support away from her and also provides a moral dilemma. He's also the key piece in Varys' decades-long plan, which ties back into the fall of the Targaryen dynasty and potentially the Blackfyre rebellions.

Possibly, but again, until we actually see how it plays out I can't say for sure. By end game, I mean, I don't think anyone actually believes that in the case an Aegon/Dany battle happens, that Aegon will win. You're correct he might be there to create conflict for her, but I doubt he's a big part of any of the final battles. Dany will have to get through Tommen/Cersei and Margary anyway, plus additionally whatever happens with Sansa/Littlefinger too. I think Aegon is probably just a blip in terms of mapping that out.

But yeah, you could be right as well.

[Hot Meat Pie]

I can't wait till Jon Connington and Aegon debut sometime this season, I'm sure we will be seeing them no doubt.

[Kyrion]

Possibly, but again, until we actually see how it plays out I can't say for sure. By end game, I mean, I don't think anyone actually believes that in the case an Aegon/Dany battle happens, that Aegon will win. You're correct he might be there to create conflict for her, but I doubt he's a big part of any of the final battles. Dany will have to get through Tommen/Cersei and Margary anyway, plus additionally whatever happens with Sansa/Littlefinger too. I think Aegon is probably just a blip in terms of mapping that out.

But yeah, you could be right as well.

This is GRRM. He killed Ned and Robb. Dont expect Aegon to just loose. I think a sweet summer child reference is called for here. I think for this to qualify as a bittersweet ending George is going for, Dany has to have a tragic downfall. This whole series has been tragic downfalls. There will be a slight ray of hope somewhere so there is some sweet moments, but Dany herself has to fall.

I can't wait till Jon Connington and Aegon debut sometime this season, I'm sure we will be seeing them no doubt.

Dont get your hopes up Jon Con lol, Jon Cons Red beard already accepted it heh

[Ser Eric]

Can someone confirm of deny the theory of Trystane being Aegon?

It's a pity Varys has become so pointless in the show.

I definitely think Aegon is being cut. It makes sense to me. He's sort of extraneous as it is and it's not like a casual show-watcher will have any idea who he is. If the show is willing to cut out a character like Mance to condense, I believe they 100% would cut out Aegon as well. I actually wish GRRM did the same. If he could have cut out both Aegon and Quentyn, we'd probably have room for both the Battle of Mereen and Winterfell to be resolved in ADWD as they should have been.

Aegon is quite literally the only good thing about Essos in Dance. A diamond in a sea of complete shite. The pacing of his chapters are excellent and to the point.

[lojzelote]

This is GRRM. He killed Ned and Robb. Dont expect Aegon to just loose. I think a sweet summer child reference is called for here. I think for this to qualify as a bittersweet ending George is going for, Dany has to have a tragic downfall. This whole series has been tragic downfalls. There will be a slight ray of hope somewhere so there is some sweet moments, but Dany herself has to fall.

The obvious difference is that neither Ned or Robb were main characters of the saga. Yeah, GRRM fooled us nicely when he gave Ned most chapters in the first book, but it turned out that at the end of the day he was simply a very well-developed parent who has to to die, so kids stay on their own and have to grow up quickly and fight their own battles.

If you thought that Robb was a major character after he didn't get any POV chapters even in ACoK.... Personally, at the start of ASoS I was totally convinced that Robb will die at some point, I just had no idea it will be so brutal.

If anybody is a summer child, it's the untried newcomer Aegon. I'm sure he'll win several battles and he'll be much adored, but then winter will come for him.

GRRM is not that original as many people make him out to be.

[Kyrion]

Come on, people really think ALL of the references to Aegon, way back in AGOT with Varys/Illyrio, and ACOK written in the HOTU, that Aegon will be a blimp on the radar. I dont think Martin waits this long to reveal a character previously thought dead, probably his second biggest reveal behind Jon's Parents that he has been building up forever, just to amount to nothing or get killed in Winds. Both of these reveals are endgame. Aegon and Jons Parents, no doubt about it. Atleast thats how I would write something this important.

[Cas Stark]

Come on, people really think ALL of the references to Aegon, way back in AGOT with Varys/Illyrio, and ACOK written in the HOTU, that Aegon will be a blimp on the radar. I dont think Martin waits this long to reveal a character previously thought dead, probably his second biggest reveal behind Jon's Parents that he has been building up forever, just to amount to nothing or get killed in Winds. Both of these reveals are endgame. Aegon and Jons Parents, no doubt about it. Atleast thats how I would write something this important.

This is the same guy who gave Quentyn Martell a POV yes? And Arys Oakheart? And Victarian Greyjoy?

So, yes I absolutely think it is almost certain that Aegon and maybe Arianne bite the dust, having done nothing much in terms of the major story or endgame beyond taking up a lot of pages.

[Hot Meat Pie]

GRRM is probably going to kill off every single character by the end of ASOIAF except for the cheesemonger lol.

[sweetsunray]

Come on, people really think ALL of the references to Aegon, way back in AGOT with Varys/Illyrio, and ACOK written in the HOTU, that Aegon will be a blimp on the radar. I dont think Martin waits this long to reveal a character previously thought dead, probably his second biggest reveal behind Jon's Parents that he has been building up forever, just to amount to nothing or get killed in Winds. Both of these reveals are endgame. Aegon and Jons Parents, no doubt about it. Atleast thats how I would write something this important.

Actually to me Aegon's a distraction away from Jon. That's what it's narratively is used for imo. Everybody is invested in Jon and Dany, and many wondering whether Jon's the rightful heir... Suddenly Aegon is pout on the scene, thereby seemingly dismissing any right Jon may have on the throne, since Aegon is older. It's GRRMs smokescreen.

[lojzelote]

Can someone confirm of deny the theory of Trystane being Aegon?

.

I may be wrong since I haven't followed rumors that closely... but I think that the main (and only?) reason for the theory is that people try to find a way for Aegon to be in, rather than that something would actually point to it. Certainly more arguments for Sansa in WF had been brought up before the second trailer was released than I've ever seen debated clues for possible Trystane=Aegon. So, it's not an impossble show twist, it's just that it lacks evidence.

Come on, people really think ALL of the references to Aegon, way back in AGOT with Varys/Illyrio, and ACOK written in the HOTU, that Aegon will be a blimp on the radar. I dont think Martin waits this long to reveal a character previously thought dead, probably his second biggest reveal behind Jon's Parents that he has been building up forever, just to amount to nothing or get killed in Winds. Both of these reveals are endgame. Aegon and Jons Parents, no doubt about it. Atleast thats how I would write something this important.

I think he'll be a very unpleasant bump on her journey, but a bump all the same. Not the end of her, nor the endgame of the story.

[falcotron]

This is the same guy who gave Quentyn Martell a POV yes?

I think that's the perfect comparison.

We know for a fact that Quentyn's plot goes nowhere in the end, and it could have been told in 2 pages of a Dany chapter instead of 4 PoV chapters. But it let GRRM show off more of his world, deconstruct the heroic adventure myth, and give us a picture of how the big schemes look to a very different character from his other PoVs, so he wrote it.

We don't yet know where Aegon's plot goes in the end, but it's similarly in the novel because it makes the novel better no matter what. Besides being among the most entertaining parts of the book, the Aegon bits are where GRRM gets to explore otherwise-unvisited parts of his fictional world, deal with some of the themes he'd wanted to get to but had been neglecting (e.g., the way the most well-planned scheme in history gets almost casually redirected), and delve into the historical background that he finds as interesting as the story to come.

GRRM is probably going to kill off every single character by the end of ASOIAF except for the cheesemonger lol.

There's no way Balerion will die. GRRM doesn't give a damn about killing off human characters left and right, but he's a softie for a tough old cat.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Well, the only evidence I have is that Dorne is in the storyline at all. To me if the "queenmaker" plot fails, as it does in the book, Doran Martell has to offer an alternative plan that he has been working on for revenge. What is this plan? If not Aegon, then what? And if he has no plan, then doesn't the Dorne story come completely to a halt when the Queenmaker plot fails? That would seem like poor writing.