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Leave it to your goat

Mance (BOOK SPOILERS)

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So, the guy they burned at CB.... Was that actually Mance, or a glamoured Rattleshirt like in the book?

I didn't notice a glowing ruby around Mel's neck in the show, and I seem to remember something about Rattleshirt crying out when he was burning and begging for mercy in the book.

I'm kinda skeptical about whether or not they actually killed off Mance or not at this point.

I think they switched Tormund for Mance, that's what all those intense looks between the two were about. Unlike Rattleshirt, Tormund went willing as a sacrifice so Mance could continue to lead the Freefolk, that's why he was able to give a convincing speech about the Night's Watch.

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Unless rattleshirt spent some time at the temple of the many-faced god, then the Mance story has reached its plateau.



We saw it yet some don't want to believe.



no wiggleroom for interpretation. I did like the story with Mance at Winterfell


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The way they portrayed the burning, it really seems likely that Mance died. In that case there is no Pinkletter coming Jon's way. Altogether it makes me wonder where the show will take us.


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I don't think they left any ambiguity that they actually burned Mance.



As a way of tightening the story, while switching out some of the sillier elements, I liked it.



If this is how they are going to convert AFFC/ADWD then its looking good thus far.


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The way they portrayed the burning, it really seems likely that Mance died. In that case there is no Pinkletter coming Jon's way. Altogether it makes me wonder where the show will take us.

They could send someone else in Mance's place, or Sansa could escape on her own, or with the help of purely internal conspirators or, hell, even Littlefinger.

Sure, without the evidence that Jon and Stannis lied, it's a much less interesting dilemma for Jon. But it may still be a good enough plot-motivator for D&D to use it; as long as it leads to the mutiny/assassination one scene later, most TV viewers won't care much about how it led there.

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I think they switched Tormund for Mance, that's what all those intense looks between the two were about. Unlike Rattleshirt, Tormund went willing as a sacrifice so Mance could continue to lead the Freefolk, that's why he was able to give a convincing speech about the Night's Watch.

So, what - is Tormund going to pretend to be Mance? Hows it that going to work? We've seen Tormund in the trailers during the Hardhome scenes, so unless Tormund is going to say "Oh, by the way, I'm actually Mance now", it's going to look ridiculous.

Seriously, this theory needs to be dropped. Mance is dead. End of.

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So, what - is Tormund going to pretend to be Mance? Hows it that going to work? We've seen Tormund in the trailers during the Hardhome scenes, so unless Tormund is going to say "Oh, by the way, I'm actually Mance now", it's going to look ridiculous.

Seriously, this theory needs to be dropped. Mance is dead. End of.

And now his watch is ended (or not)!

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im pretty sure rattle shirt does appear in this season though. I recall seeing it on the casting list & in the trailer. I could be misremembering. What I'm wondering is if he is included in this season what role will he play & why?

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He's at Hardhome. One of the rebel Wilding Clan leaders that Jon/Tormund need to convince to come back with them.

I guess my question is...since the mance/rattleshirt glamour thing is most likely cut from the show what will be the point of ratteshirt now? Unless I'm missing something which is possible.

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So, the guy they burned at CB.... Was that actually Mance, or a glamoured Rattleshirt like in the book?

I didn't notice a glowing ruby around Mel's neck in the show, and I seem to remember something about Rattleshirt crying out when he was burning and begging for mercy in the book.

I'm kinda skeptical about whether or not they actually killed off Mance or not at this point.

She is constantly wearing a necklace with a massive ruby on it. In every scene.

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Mance being dead is better for his legacy, he lived like a king and died like one. In the books he was reduced to a foot soldier after achieving so much which was bad.

You know nothing, Sultan of Westeros. b)

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He's dead.

I think it would do a disservice to his character to have him go out the way he did just to pull a switcharoo on us later...tbh, I didn't like it in the books, either.

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It would be a massive taint on Mance's character if he consented with a plan to burn somebody else in his place after that conversation with Jon. It also really ruins that moment of wildling mourning and Jon making a stand if that wasn't Mance. That bait and switch would feel really bad if the show pulled it, even more so since Rattleshirt hasn't been built up as a villain.

Further, the Mance of the show isn't a trickster bard who scampers around in crypts. Show Mance moves slow. Mance is one of the most honest characters in the show. You would never send show Mance to infiltrate Winterfell.

And Mance acted just like Mance in the burning scene. Maybe one of his lieutenants could have impersonated Mance effectively, but that seems kind of doubtful.

I pretty much agree with this entire post. Two impressions --

One thought I had instantly was that characters will begun dying as the show contracts to its end. I know there is still plenty of time but the cast list is huge and some can be killed with the story still intact or simply told more economically with existing cast. I liked Book Mance and I liked Show Mance and I liked the actor and the honesty of his performance.

I also see an early shift to Jon Snow becoming a character who takes action. Books readers always had Jon in their heads, but show watchers did not have that advantage, so many criticized Jon as a 'do-nothing, know-nothing boring dude'. I think we will begin to see Jon engage in actions that support his character, bringing his internal monologue out into overt action.

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