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Who do you think will be the 13 POV characters at the start of WINDS?


Liaraeyne

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GRRM has said there will be 13 POVs at the start of WINDS (note, he may change his mind). Who do you think the 13 POV characters will be in WINDS?



These are the first 8 confirmed characters:


1. Aeron Greyjoy


2. Sansa Stark


3. Arya Stark


4. Arianne Martell


5. Theon Greyjoy


6. Barristan Selmy


7. Tyrion Lannister


8. Victarion Greyjoy



Who do you think the remaining 5 characters will be and why?


My thoughts:



9. Daenerys (GRRM has said he was writing about the Dothraki, it’s likely it will be from Dany’s perspective, also I doubt he won’t resolve Dany’s cliffhanger in all of WINDS


10. Jon Snow (GRRM has hinted in interviews that he is still alive)


11. Bran (GRRM said on his blog that there is a chance that we will see Bran in WINDS, this will most likely be through his own POV)


12. Samwell Tarly (he’s a the citadel and will learn a lot of cool stuff, I think)


13. Davos Seaworth (he will search for Rickon Stark. GRRM said he had some cool stuff for Osha, we will most likely see that through Davos’ POV).



However it bothers me that I have no one at Kings' Landing. I hope Tyene or Nymeria will have a POV.



What do you guys think :)



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No Jaime, Cersei or Brienne? I can see having only one of Jaime or Brienne, but I don't know why we'd lose Cersei. I think we might not get Bran from his own POV, maybe in someone else's dream or something. Or through Jon's POV if we get one.



Alternatively, he says there are 13 at the beginning and less by the end...but that doesn't mean there won't be new POVs at the end who weren't present at the start. For instance, we might not get Jon at the beginning, then as characters die the count goes down. Then we get Jon close to the end, but the count is already less than 13...



GRRM's a tricky bastard.


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No Jaime, Cersei or Brienne? I can see having only one of Jaime or Brienne, but I don't know why we'd lose Cersei. I think we might not get Bran from his own POV, maybe in someone else's dream or something. Or through Jon's POV if we get one.

Alternatively, he says there are 13 at the beginning and less by the end...but that doesn't mean there won't be new POVs at the end who weren't present at the start. For instance, we might not get Jon at the beginning, then as characters die the count goes down. Then we get Jon close to the end, but the count is already less than 13...

GRRM's a tricky bastard.

Indeed. I think from the 8 already confirmed, two will most likely perish. Areo Hotah is also likely to get a POV. The Darkstar(k) plot must come to an end. I think Theon will only get one POV and then in Asha's, we come to know he died. Samwell is also likely to get a POV, for the nasty stuff what is going on in the Reach (One from Oldtown, and the other one as prisoner of Euron, for the ransom). JonCon also gets a POV (GGRM has said that maybe he will include the battle of Stormsend). Brienne gets one POV and Jaime more than one. I think Brienne and Jaime must battle and when the battle starts, that is the end of the Brienne POV, so that we can see the battle trough Jaimes eyes and Briennes death. Pod and ser Hyle get the choice between staying with the BwB or be hanged. The stuff that is going on in KL with the trial and the possible death of Margaery and Tommen, also gets a POV. Bran will get one, but i think its early in the book. GRRM has set that the stuff happening in the North, began before the Jon stabbing. I think via Brans POV, we see the conclusion of that battle or the stabbing and that he is warging into Wun Weg (I think him warging into Hodor, was for this moment) to save Jon and from Theons POV, we know its likely he will save him too. The first Jon POV is likely via Ghost, which he has warged and is recovering from his wounds (And possibly sending him South, to see what has happened with WF and Stannis and maybe he sees Rickon land in the North), while Mel provides us with a POV from the Wall during the fights.

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1.Sansa Stark


2.Arya Stark


3.Bran Stark


4.Tyrion Lannister


5.Daenerys Targaryen


6.Theon Greyjoy


7.Jaime Lannister


8.Cersei Lannister


9.Arianne Martell


10.Victarion Greyjoy


11.Jon Connighton


12.Barristan Selmy


13.Melisandre



The battles of Ice,Fire and Storm's End seem to open the book, so Samwell,Areo,Davos,Jon Snow are not needed early.In the first half of the book we will lose Barristan,Victarion,Asha,Brienne,Jon C and Areo (not necessarily by death but they will not have more chapters) so nearly all characters will have chapters but in specific parts of the book.


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Prologue will be Sybella Spicer, she will reflect on "love potion", her missing son and Jeyne. She will also die. Note that GRRM says that we will see Jeyne Westerling in the prologue of TWOW. IF this is not it, it will be Jeyne's pov and she is with the Blackfish.


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Prologue will be Sybella Spicer, she will reflect on "love potion", her missing son and Jeyne. She will also die. Note that GRRM says that we will see Jeyne Westerling in the prologue of TWOW. IF this is not it, it will be Jeyne's pov and she is with the Blackfish.

9- Jeyne

10- Osha

11- Davos

12 - Areo Hotah

13- Tyene Sand

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Prologue will be Sybella Spicer, she will reflect on "love potion", her missing son and Jeyne. She will also die. Note that GRRM says that we will see Jeyne Westerling in the prologue of TWOW. IF this is not it, it will be Jeyne's pov and she is with the Blackfish.

So it can also be the BF prologue (Hope not though, don't want him to die).

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Alternatively, he says there are 13 at the beginning and less by the end...but that doesn't mean there won't be new POVs at the end who weren't present at the start. For instance, we might not get Jon at the beginning, then as characters die the count goes down. Then we get Jon close to the end, but the count is already less than 13...

Good point I hadnt thought of that^^ in that case, I hope Nymeria and Jaime get a POV. Not Brienne, Jaime's chapters are more fun to read.

I'm not sure whether Cersei will make a return. She had a fun to read arc in AFFC, that arc is almost over. Only her trial is left, and that does not necessarily have to be told from her own POV. I think she will be sent back to Casterly Rock after the trial.

Still, I would like it if she returned as a POV. She was so fun to read haha.

Still hoping for a Margaery POV, but I doubt that will happen...

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I have been thinking a lot about this and I wonder if he considers it to be 13 Main POV characters. For example, if he were counting the POV characters for aDwD, would he could Melisandre? In a tossed off interview, maybe he wouldn't. So maybe the 13 main POVs are:



(confirmed POVs bolded)


1. Sansa Stark


2. Arya Stark


3. Bran Stark


4. Danaerys Targaryen



5. Tyrion Lannister


6. Theon Greyjoy


7. Samwell Tarly


8. Cersei Lannister


9. Jaime Lannister


10. Brienne of Tarth


11. Arianne Martell


12. Barristan Selmy


13. Jon Snow (assuming he's alive)



And that would leave room for the occasional chapter entries that GRRM utilized in aFfC and aDwD from these POVs:


14. Davos Seaworth


15. Areo Hotah


16. Asha Greyjoy


17. Aeron Greyjoy


18. Victarion Greyjoy


19. Quentyn Martell (assuming he's alive)


20. Jon Connington


21. Melisandre



^ That list includes all current POVs, assuming GRRM sticks to his no undead POVs rule (Ned Stark, Catelyn Stark, Arys Oakheart).




That being said, I could see several of those not appearing because they were tertiary (Areo, Melisandre), or because their stories currently overlap with bigger POVs (Asha, JonCon).


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I don't see how that can possibly be correct. I can see Bran not getting a POV, but we need at least 1 POV at the wall, so Mel or Ghost, and preferably both. We also need a POV in Kings Landing so that is Cersei. Either Jaime or Brienne need a POV to resolve that plotline but we at least need 1 of them. Then there is Areo, Dany, and Sam. All in all I don't see how it could possibly be done with less than 14 and frankly I think we would be missing out if we did not have at least 17. We know Theon has a pov so we could potentially see Asha get killed.



Are you sure he did not say at the end of Winds, so he is telling us how many POV's we are going to loose?


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He can't do it without using the same structure of one-off POVs he used in Feast and Dance. So there'll be 13 recurring ones and several one-off ones.





I have been thinking a lot about this and I wonder if he considers it to be 13 Main POV characters. For example, if he were counting the POV characters for aDwD, would he could Melisandre? In a tossed off interview, maybe he wouldn't. So maybe the 13 main POVs are:



(confirmed POVs bolded)


1. Sansa Stark


2. Arya Stark


3. Bran Stark


4. Danaerys Targaryen



5. Tyrion Lannister


6. Theon Greyjoy


7. Samwell Tarly


8. Cersei Lannister


9. Jaime Lannister


10. Brienne of Tarth


11. Arianne Martell


12. Barristan Selmy


13. Jon Snow (assuming he's alive)



And that would leave room for the occasional chapter entries that GRRM utilized in aFfC and aDwD from these POVs:


14. Davos Seaworth


15. Areo Hotah


16. Asha Greyjoy


17. Aeron Greyjoy


18. Victarion Greyjoy


19. Quentyn Martell (assuming he's alive)


20. Jon Connington


21. Melisandre



^ That list includes all current POVs, assuming GRRM sticks to his no undead POVs rule (Ned Stark, Catelyn Stark, Arys Oakheart).




That being said, I could see several of those not appearing because they were tertiary (Areo, Melisandre), or because their stories currently overlap with bigger POVs (Asha, JonCon).




:agree:



Though I'd like to see Davos as a recurring character instead of one of the "one-off" ones. Possibly switching with Bran in the lists? Or maybe Bran is too central to the overall plot (at least in GRRM's mind)?



It'd also be quite interesting to have more Sand Snake POV's, as well as Arriane.


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PoVs I think are necessary:


9. Daenerys: There is no way to deal with Dothraki stuff without a Dany PoV.


10. Bran: Because GRRM said we will be seeing Bran in WoW.


11. Davos Seaworth: We'll need info on Osha and Rickon. Davos is the only way, given all the info. Even if Manderly was lying, Jon does see Shaggydog fighting a one-horned goat, suggesting Rickon in is Skagos or Skane.


12. Cersei: Kings Landing PoV. Neither Arianne nor JC is going to be there soon enough to cover important plot-points concerning the Lannisters and Tyrells.


13. This has to be Jon (Snow), but then we have no space for Sam(only PoV at citadel), Jaime&Brienne (Riverlands cliffhanger), Jon Connington(Battle of Storm's end, please.)



My 13:



1. Aeron Greyjoy


2. Sansa Stark


3. Arya Stark


4. Arianne Martell


5. Theon Greyjoy (?) Asha Greyjoy


6. Barristan Selmy (?) Daenerys Targaryen


7. Tyrion Lannister


8. Victarion Greyjoy (?) Daenerys Targaryen


9. Bran Stark


10. Jaime Lannister


11. Samwell Tarly


12. Davos Seaworth


13. Melisandre Jon Snow



How does it work? I think the PoVs, even the important 13 are going to be dynamic. We have too many PoVs clustered in Meereen, by the time the battle is done, at least one of them will be gone. While Barristan is the most poised to die, my bet is more on Victarion. Or probably both. This leaves at least one extra slot for the 'starting 13'.



George said he will resolve cliffhangers soon. One of those was the fate of Jaime and Brienne. If Jaime survives, and is asked by LS to go to KL and kill Cersei, then we have a Jaime PoV, and someone in KL.



I really think we need an Asha PoV since Theon seems about to die. But using the PoV interchange logic, even if we only get two Theon chapters and Asha chapters thereafter, I'd count it as one PoV. I have the same feelings towards Jon and Melisandre PoVs.



Areo Hotah is the only PoV at Dorne, but the Dornish has finally made their move, so Arianne will be the only way we hear anything from their side, I guess.



Yet another way to resolve KL viewpoint issue is Arya. If Mercy joins Harys Swyft's crew as a stowaway, we'll have a really interesting PoV to watch KL events with. Remember, Ser Gregor Clegane is in her list, and Meryn Trant, too.


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No Jaime, Cersei or Brienne? I can see having only one of Jaime or Brienne, but I don't know why we'd lose Cersei. I think we might not get Bran from his own POV, maybe in someone else's dream or something. Or through Jon's POV if we get one.

Alternatively, he says there are 13 at the beginning and less by the end...but that doesn't mean there won't be new POVs at the end who weren't present at the start. For instance, we might not get Jon at the beginning, then as characters die the count goes down. Then we get Jon close to the end, but the count is already less than 13...

GRRM's a tricky bastard.

I think this is exactly correct. We have to think in terms of plotlines, timelines and deaths. What does "at the beginning" even mean? The first 2/3 of the book? First half? First third? At the beginning in the timeline?

I think the posts do a good job of outlning the possibilities, to be certain. To recap:

8 confirmed already, but only 7 of those necessarily are a the beginning:

1. Victarion (battle of Mereen)

2. Barristan (battle of Mereen)

3. Tyrion (battle of Mereen)

4. Theon (battle of Winterfell)

5. Arianne (riding to meet JonCon and Aegon)

6. Sansa (out of the Eyrie, but no word on Cersei's trial yet)

7. Mercy (not sure where in timeline this is, but is seems pretty close on Arya from Feast/Dance)

-------------

Ohter confirmed unreleased chapters:

https://bryndenbfish.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/the-complete-winds-of-winter-resource/

8. Dany (you'd think this one would be close to the beginning, yes)

9. Jon Snow (can't let that cliffhanger go for too long can we, or course, it's already been what, 6 years?)

10. Aeron Greyjoy (confirmed but nor released, and not necessarily at the beginning)

11. Bran Stark (confirmed, but not necessarily at the beginning)

12. Davos Seaworth (confrimed, but not necessarily at the beginning).

Throw in some other strong POV candidates with previous POVs:

13. Cersei. Only eyes in KL at the moment.

14-15. Brienne and/or Jaime. Someone in the Riverlands. Though it could be one instead of both.

16. Samwell Tarly. Something is going on at the Citadel. Jaquen. A Sand Snake. Grey Rats. Might not be at the beginning, however.

17. Jon Con. He could easily bite the dust. Or we could just see him from Arianne's perspective.

18. Asha Greyjoy. Could be from Theon's perspective. Or one could die.

19. Melisandre. If Jon Snow is out of it, she's our eyes at the Wall.

20. Areo Hotah.

====================

That's it. Quentyn is dead, people. They were discussing how to send his bones back. Yeesh.

Now, it seems we have a lot of folk you could die soon (Jon Con, Victarion, Theon) or likely to be in a spot where they could die soon (Jaime, Brienne, Barristan, Areo Hotah, Cersei). I mean, that's 8 death candidates right there, and we haven't even talked about Jon Snow, the Damphair (if he crosses Euron somehow), Arianne (if she chooses wrongly), Davos, or Asha. Heck, everone is in peril of some sort. Not to mention the duos that could be condensed into 1 POV: Arianne/JonCon, Brienne/Jaime, Asha/Theon.

If I had to pick 13 to start:

1. Victarion (battle of Mereen)

2. Barristan (battle of Mereen)

3. Tyrion (battle of Mereen)

4. Theon (battle of Winterfell)

5. Arianne (riding to meet JonCon and Aegon)

6. Sansa (out of the Eyrie, but no word on Cersei's trial yet)

7. Mercy (not sure where in timeline this is, but is seems pretty close on Arya from Feast/Dance)

----------------

8. Dany (you'd think this one would be close to the beginning, yes)

9. Jon Snow (can't let that cliffhanger go for too long can we, or course, it's already been what, 6 years?)

------------

10. Cersei

11. Jaime

12. Brienne (this could get folded into 1 POV, like I Theon/Asha and Arianne/JonCon will, if so, take #14)

13. Samwell Tarly

------------------

14. Bran Stark (I think he'll be later, but could be wrong if Jaime/Brienne get folded).

=============

Folded: Theon/Asha, Arianne/JonCon, + maybe Jaime/Brienne

Original 13 that get killed: Victarion, Theon, Cersei + maybe Jaime/Brienne

Leaves room to come in later: Davos (certainly), Aeron (may bite the dust quickly), Areo Hotah (ditto)

Other previous POVs I think will die: JonCon, Aeron, Areo Hotah

I don't think we'll get a POV from Mel in this book. She needs to remain a mystery.

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GRRM said: "In the first book we have seven POV characters. In the sixth, there are 13 I think. But near the end, I have less POVs".


In the first we have 8 POV characters, and he says he thinks there are 13.It could be 14 or 12 early POVs.It is not something certain.


The Mercy chapter can't be too early because it implies that Cersei has risen again to power.


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I think this is exactly correct. We have to think in terms of plotlines, timelines and deaths. What does "at the beginning" even mean? The first 2/3 of the book? First half? First third? At the beginning in the timeline?

[...]

Nice post!

And now, my minor opinion:

IMO, at the beginning of TWOW those 13 characters will be having POV chapters:

1. Sansa Stark (confirmed)

2. Arya Stark (confirmed)

3. Theon Greyjoy (confirmed)

4. Victarion Greyjoy (confirmed)

5. Tyrion Lannister (confirmed)

6. Barristan Selmy (confirmed)

7. Daenerys Targaryen (not confirmed, but very likely)

8. Arianne Martell (confirmed)

9. Jon Connington (not confirmed either, but very likely)

10. Aeron Greyjoy (confirmed)

------------------

11. Jaime Lannister and/or Brienne of Tarth (both not confirmed, but needed to continue LS arc)

12. Cersei Lannister (King's Landing)

13. Davos Seaworth (needed for Skagos/Rickon plot)

------------------

14. Areo Hotah (needed to continue the Darkstar plot)

15. Asha Greyjoy (another POV for Battle of Winterfell apart from Theon)

16. Melisandre (our POV at the Wall)

17. Jon Snow (POV at/beyond the Wall)

18. Bran Stark (POV beyond the Wall)

19. Samwell Tarly (POV at Oldtown)

I believe all of those will appear in TWOW, but not necessarily at the beginning. Especially Aeron, Cersei, Samwell and Jaime/Brienne are IMO very likely to appear only after maybe 40% of the book, but to become major characters later on.

My predictions for characters who won't have any POV chapters at the end of TWOW:

Barristan (dying during BoM), Victarion (dying by dragonfire), JonCon (dying at the end - perhaps as a sacrifice in order to awake stone dragons at Dragonstone), Areo (although not dead) and Asha (either dead or alive).

I doubt Theon, Cersei, Jaime and Brienne - who are all very frequently mentioned as possibilities for TWOW deaths - will be going to die in the next book, but rather in ADOS - although I still believe Brienne will be alive at the end and become part of Sansa's queensguard at Winterfell. ;)

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