Vikings VII: We'll always have Paris [SPOILERS]

[jarl the climber]

I think Ecbert saved Judith because (A) she's a neighboring king's daughter; Aella might not appreciate having his daughter's nose lopped off (one ear is less horrible); ( B) she named Athelstan as the father of her baby; Ecbert was fascinated by Athelstan and keeping Judith around and changing a torrid affair into some mystical holy conception will help protect Athelstan's child and keep him in Ecbert's family rather than sent to a monastery for raising. I would assume that everyone in the royal court of Wessex with the possible exception of Aethelwulf realizes that there was nothing holy or mystical about baby Alfred's conception but are just going along with What The King Said in order not to alienate either the King or Aella...

He also knocked off a lot of his more uppity Lords in the last episode so I think everyone got the message.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I think Ecbert saved Judith because (A) she's a neighboring king's daughter; Aella might not appreciate having his daughter's nose lopped off (one ear is less horrible); ( B) she named Athelstan as the father of her baby; Ecbert was fascinated by Athelstan and keeping Judith around and changing a torrid affair into some mystical holy conception will help protect Athelstan's child and keep him in Ecbert's family rather than sent to a monastery for raising. I would assume that everyone in the royal court of Wessex with the possible exception of Aethelwulf realizes that there was nothing holy or mystical about baby Alfred's conception but are just going along with What The King Said in order not to alienate either the King or Aella...

Yeah this makes sense. We also all know Ecbert has no intention of playing too nice-nice with Aella. He wants all of England and made that known.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

The biggest problem of the season has been the focus on the characters outside of Ragnar's inner circle. Wessex, the Parisian court and the Kalf storyline are just not that good (sometimes, they are even terrible). Bjorn's lovetriangle subplot has also been very poorly handled. And the Harbard stuff was bad for blatantly breaking the show's established 'Gods are real, because these people believe they are' and make it pretty much a fact that they do wander around.

Compare that to the actual Vikings stuff. That has never been better than now I think. The assault on Paris, Floki killing Aethelstan and other stuff like that are just great. It just gets bogged down by those other stupid storylines.

I agree to an extent, especially in regards to the Kalf stuff. Like Kalf himself is probably the most bland character Vikings has ever had, and fucking Erlandur is even worse, he's like the Joffrey/Tiberius of Vikings except I don't even really enjoy hating him, I just want him to fucking die already. The Bjorn love triangle is a bore...honestly the only good character from Kalfs camp was the big guy who died in the last episode, which was a waste imo (should have kept him around to fight Rollo or something). As for the Parisian stuff, I feel like time will tell if the characters are developed or not, so far I feel like I kind of like Count Odo and Gisla but hate Charles, but again its a bit early to tell.

As for Wessex...I admit this new development with Ecbert and Judith is a bit weird to me as well, but then Ecbert always has something up his sleeve so I'm not going to count it out just yet. And lets not forget that one of the highlights of this season was the end of Episode 5. If the Judith thing ends up ending with something else like that I'll be more than okay with it.

As for Harbard...idk I liked him and his inclusion a lot personally. Hell one of my biggest disappointments with this season was how he just sort of dropped off, unless he comes back in Episode 10 or int he next season somehow.

But yeah, the Kattegat characters' storylines honestly might be the best it's ever been this season. I'd say Season 3 may have the highest high points of any Vikings season thus far, though Season 2 was more consistent.

[GeorgeIAF]

He has betrayed the Gods !

[Alia of the knife]

If Hirst takes this all the way as per history all the way up to the Norman conquest of England, (which I hope he does), then all the old characters will die off.

They just have get compelling actors to carry the story through.

[Zorral]

Yeah that's pretty bad. Even with all the ads they're losing people.

Season 3's numbers went up from season 2 -- gaining over a million more viewers. That they've made a mess of character and story telling this season explains this:

Vikings has been down in the ratings a bit during Season 3, but there are still well over 2 million viewers who tune in for each episode live. In addition, the show is the #1 scripted cable program in Live+3 ratings, averaging 4.3 million viewers. That’s apparently enough eyeballs that History had no qualms with renewing the network’s big scripted drama. It might seem a bit preemptive to call a renewal well before Season 3 ends its run, but part of the reason for the renewal also may have to do with the fact that the program shoots in Ireland and production on the series will actually begin this spring. Renewing the series means the creative team can officially begin to plan ahead. So, all things being equal, early is definitely more convenient and could actually lead to better episodes down the line.

Hopefully Hirst and Co. will have learned some very big, fundamental lessons from this going into season 4.

Ragnar is not faking or exaggerating his injuries. They are not a long play. They are impeding his judgment now, as well as screwing with his ability to lead. That's what happens when in a battle you take your eye off the fight to gaze love besotted at the object of your obsession.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I agree to an extent, especially in regards to the Kalf stuff. Like Kalf himself is probably the most bland character Vikings has ever had, and fucking Erlandur is even worse, he's like the Joffrey/Tiberius of Vikings except I don't even really enjoy hating him, I just want him to fucking die already. The Bjorn love triangle is a bore...honestly the only good character from Kalfs camp was the big guy who died in the last episode, which was a waste imo (should have kept him around to fight Rollo or something). As for the Parisian stuff, I feel like time will tell if the characters are developed or not, so far I feel like I kind of like Count Odo and Gisla but hate Charles, but again its a bit early to tell.

As for Wessex...I admit this new development with Ecbert and Judith is a bit weird to me as well, but then Ecbert always has something up his sleeve so I'm not going to count it out just yet. And lets not forget that one of the highlights of this season was the end of Episode 5. If the Judith thing ends up ending with something else like that I'll be more than okay with it.

As for Harbard...idk I liked him and his inclusion a lot personally. Hell one of my biggest disappointments with this season was how he just sort of dropped off, unless he comes back in Episode 10 or int he next season somehow.

But yeah, the Kattegat characters' storylines honestly might be the best it's ever been this season. I'd say Season 3 may have the highest high points of any Vikings season thus far, though Season 2 was more consistent.

I agree with just about all of this. No one likes Kalf. Hes a boring antagonist. Erlandur is a snore. I like asshole villains if they are interesting. I dig Harbard a lot tbh.

If Hirst takes this all the way as per history all the way up to the Norman conquest of England, (which I hope he does), then all the old characters will die off.

They just have get compelling actors to carry the story through.

Except Lagertha. She aint going anywhere. Floki's got a job to do that is likely going to be a thing next season. I think we will start seeing Bjorn's arc take off by episode 2 next season.

[The Anti-Targ]

He has to become king Bjorn right? I mean now that Ragnar has been Baptised, even if he lives and recovers no one is going to follow Ragnar the Christian. Maybe there will be a small band who want to follow him, and perhaps they will go back to England and avenge the slaughter of their settlement. With Bjorn's help.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

Like with Harbard it's just like...other than the death of Siggy and creating additional marital discomfort for Ragnar by banging Aslaug, it really doesn't seem like he had as much of a lasting impact on the story as he could/should with. It was like "Ragnar is going to be mad at Aslaug now because she had sex with someone else...oh yeah and he happened to be a God"? It was a waste of a really intriguing character imo, though again, I will eat my words on this if he comes back or ends up having some other sort of impact we haven't forseen yet.

[Wmarshal]

And why, of all the women in Wessex, is Ecbert intent on making his daughter-in-law his mistress? Does he really think he can keep the liaison a secret from Aethelwulf and/or others forever? How does Ecbert expect his (apparent) only son and heir to command the respect of other nobles and kings if Aethelwulf's wife cuckolds him again? Not to mention what will happen if Judith gets pregnant by Ecbert while Aethelwulf is away...Ecbert doesn't seem like he is so in love or in lust with Judith that he must have her regardless of the consequences, he's always thinking about consequences. Ecbert's coercion of Judith into becoming his mistress seems out of character as well as creepy.

His atitude as whole to Aethelwulf makes no sense. Athelstan, during his time Ecbert, did jack, people say they connected, but there interactions never once went personal or extremely deep, they knew of history, but other then, nothing happened to justify the extremes Ecbert went to make him happy, even sacrificing his son's happiness with his wife.

[Wmarshal]

To add: Aethelwulf in comparison went above and beyond to serve his father's will and actually tried to follow his father's policies no matter his religious beliefs.

[jarl the climber]

A couple of thoughts maybe a little crackpot.

I think the French princess might be a lesbian. Beyond her whole refusal to marry there was an odd interacction between her and another female, it was like a meaningful look, I think it happened in one of the church scenes, can't recall the episode. I guess it might be relavent if she marries Rollo as some people seem to think.

Second theory, which is really crackpot, is that Aethelstan was Egberts son. Egbert had a throwaway line how a son had never suceeded his Father in the Angle kingdoms. Aethwulf was older and Egbert had Aethelstan shipped off to the monks while he was still an infant. He was told his parents were poor and that they later died in a plauge. Egbert seemed to know quite a bit about Athelstans history, that he had been in Paris for instance. So he knew this son was at Lindasfarme, that he might have been killed in the raid. Later he found out that an apostate had been captured, who had once been a monk at the monastery whose name was Aethelstan. So thats why he showed up that day when he found out he had been crucified. Its a ridiculous theory but it might explain some of Egberts motives and why he considers Alfred to be his Grandson.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I think the French princess might be a lesbian.

Gisla's long stares at Rollo contradict this pretty hard.

Your second one would be pretty wiggy tbh. And im gonna root for it.

[jarl the climber]

Gisla's long stares at Rollo contradict this pretty hard.

Your second one would be pretty wiggy tbh. And im gonna root for it.

The only reason I would propose the first theory is because of the weird scene where they showed a girl smiling at her in one of the church scenes, it was quick but it was done intentionally and it was sort of like who the hell is that girl. I was sort of wondering if anyone else noticed that. As far as her staring at Rollo goes, thats a little ambiguous. Shes just never seen a man like that before, still he's trying to pillage her city, he is a pagan as far as she knows and I think she mostly wants to see him die at this point.

The whole Egbert thing is just crazy but he is killing off some of his nobles, some more were killed by Queen K. perhaps with his apporval, who can say, and now he is antagonizing his heir while admitting to his son that he wants to go after Aelle as well. If Aethwulf is unhappy why wouldn't he go to Aelle with his son and admit his Fathers plots and make an alliance with him to go after Egbert and use his son with Judith to claim both kingdoms? Egberts smart enough to see this so what gives?

[Alia of the knife]

The only reason I would propose the first theory is because of the weird scene where they showed a girl smiling at her in one of the church scenes, it was quick but it was done intentionally and it was sort of like who the hell is that girl. I was sort of wondering if anyone else noticed that. As far as her staring at Rollo goes, thats a little ambiguous. Shes just never seen a man like that before, still he's trying to pillage her city, he is a pagan as far as she knows and I think she mostly wants to see him die at this point.

The whole Egbert thing is just crazy but he is killing off some of his nobles, some more were killed by Queen K. perhaps with his apporval, who can say, and now he is antagonizing his heir while admitting to his son that he wants to go after Aelle as well. If Aethwulf is unhappy why wouldn't he go to Aelle with his son and admit his Fathers plots and make an alliance with him to go after Egbert and use his son with Judith to claim both kingdoms? Egberts smart enough to see this so what gives?

Love the second theory and I think in real history, Athelstan and Athelwulf were brothers.

As for the church scene, I thought the stare was between Count Otto and another woman.

[Mazrick]

One thing I'm disappointed with is how fixated Ragnar is on Aethelstan. I thought once the dude was dead they'd have an episode of mourning, and then move on. People died a lot in that time period. Get over it.

[Nictarion]

One thing I'm disappointed with is how fixated Ragnar is on Aethelstan. I thought once the dude was dead they'd have an episode of mourning, and then move on. People died a lot in that time period. Get over it.

It is a bit much. He wants to go to heaven to be with Athelstan? What about your daughter? What about all your Viking warriors you've fought beside that have died?

It's not just him either, Ebert is just as obsessed as Ragnar is.

[igrewupinKL]

i wasn't disappointed with yesterday's episode...i just wanted more! although i was a little disappointed with Ragnar's 'arc'.

I expected more out of Ragnar. Honestly his little hallucinatory battle over Odin and Athelstan was going a bit too far....enough with it already. I just hope he is using christianity as a way of gaining trust with the French people and he will open the gates from the inside next episode. I hope he survives his wounds, but they look pretty serious and i don't think he is faking them or else he would've helped the others fighting in their 2nd attack.

Wooo go Rollo and Bjorn!!! they are totally my viking heroes as well as earl siegfied. That moment when he laughed his ass off was hilarious :bowdown: what a great deception that was.

I really don't like the french princess' accent when she talks lol oh well

Not really sure what Ecbert wants- but i think Lagertha is right. he is selfish and maybe he wants judith for himself simply for aesthetic reasons or what i think is more likely is to ensure her loyalty. by sleeping with ecbert, judith is ensuring the safety of her sons. but now aethulwulf has calmed down a bit i don't that is going to be much of a problem though.

I can't believe there's only one episode left :frown5: i'm going to have massive withdrawals, i've been loving this season. The increasing complexity has just made it better imo. All those characters that were introduced (Kalf, harbrand, horrik's son, french court) will pay off next season i reckon. I think this season was setting up a lot of things- the wessex crew, parisian crew and kattegat crew.

In wessex we have the war which will happen between queen K and Ecbert with both Judith and aethulwulf as wild cards. I don't think Aethulwulf is buying his dads speech about him being offended. i think he made a deal with kwenrith. And i think judith is keeping her cards close to her heart.

Kattegat set up Auslaug as being a competent ruler whilst ragnar is away, it set up Bjorn's heartbreak when he realises phorunn has left and that paganism is still strong there.

in paris i think we will see a divide between those who start to accept christianity and those who don't. when they conquer paris (and i think they will), rollo will marry the princess (they even called him 'bear' just as the seer did in kattegat)

[Veltigar]

Ecbert some reason turned his brain off alot this season when it came to Aethelwulf. The guy as of this moment is his only battle commander we have seen and he is planning to war with the whole of England. I kind want Aethelwulf to scream at asking him why he continues to shit on him, because I see no damn reason as of now.

I want Aethelwulf to punch him, but that will never happen.

The whole Egbert thing is just crazy but he is killing off some of his nobles, some more were killed by Queen K. perhaps with his apporval, who can say, and now he is antagonizing his heir while admitting to his son that he wants to go after Aelle as well. If Aethwulf is unhappy why wouldn't he go to Aelle with his son and admit his Fathers plots and make an alliance with him to go after Egbert and use his son with Judith to claim both kingdoms? Egberts smart enough to see this so what gives?

I don't think it has been properly build up, but I would still support this theory. At least something that makes a little bit of sense in that whole plotline.

It is a bit much. He wants to go to heaven to be with Athelstan? What about your daughter? What about all your Viking warriors you've fought beside that have died?

:agree:

I really like season one, a lot of my favorite scenes from the show are from it. Honestly season two is stil probably the best (though I have a feeling the finale next week will be really good) but I don't think there is much of a gap in quality between the three. Compared to say Thrones where season 1 is by far the best imo :P

Agreed on Thrones, although I have been enjoying season five tremendously so far. That might become my new favourite season. I think season two has been the most consistent quality wise, but it also had great moments as well (Blood Eagle, Gyda's farewell, Horik's downfall etc.). Season three for me has been consistently weaker, but it also had a lot of great moments (the battle for Paris, the death of what's-gis-name-again-with-the-arrows-and-the-two-wives, Lagertha's commando mission, Ragnar's eyeroll, etc.). Season one's narrative wasn't as consistently great as one, it might have been a bit weaker than three, but it also didn't have that many great moments imo (shieldwall on the beach, Uppsala, are there others?)

[Veltigar]

I agree to an extent, especially in regards to the Kalf stuff. Like Kalf himself is probably the most bland character Vikings has ever had, and fucking Erlandur is even worse, he's like the Joffrey/Tiberius of Vikings except I don't even really enjoy hating him, I just want him to fucking die already. The Bjorn love triangle is a bore...honestly the only good character from Kalfs camp was the big guy who died in the last episode, which was a waste imo (should have kept him around to fight Rollo or something).

I think the way Siegfried died was great, but they should have used him more in the episodes before. We only saw him secure the ropes, which was pretty badass, but I would have liked it if we had gotten to know him a bit more in previous episodes. As it stood, I just knew he was going to die from the moment the camera's focussed on him this episode.

Plus, I liked that he wasn't really antagonistic to Ragnar. He just wanted to raid with the best, he wasn't really part of Kalf's Club of Ragnar's Unpromising Adversaries, or at least that was my own impression. It expanded the Viking world a little bit that way.

As for the Parisian stuff, I feel like time will tell if the characters are developed or not, so far I feel like I kind of like Count Odo and Gisla but hate Charles, but again its a bit early to tell.

I think the Parisian stuff has just been terribly lazy. From the plotting to the dialogue. I think it would have been much better if we had only seen the Parisians from the Vikings PoV. Introduce Odo and Princess Polanski (what's her name in the show btw?) during the actual sieges. That would have done wonders for Princess Polanski certainly. After that, use the captivity of the wanderer and Siegfried to show us how these two characters interact with each other and the Emperor.

I mean, we don't really need to get extended court scenes. We already have to deal with those back in England. We also don't need another stupid loveplot (i.e. Count Odo wanting to marry Princess Polanski), we have got those. We also don't need to see their preparations, we already know what happens when Vikings land somewhere. And we don't need to see another incompetent King, we already had that this season. Finally, even if all the Parisian characters will turn out to be returning in future seasons (Which I doubt, Princess Polanski will probably be the only one I think), there were more efficient and flat-out better ways to introduce and develop them :)

As for Wessex...I admit this new development with Ecbert and Judith is a bit weird to me as well, but then Ecbert always has something up his sleeve so I'm not going to count it out just yet. And lets not forget that one of the highlights of this season was the end of Episode 5. If the Judith thing ends up ending with something else like that I'll be more than okay with it

Let's all agree that - if Ecbert really has nothing up his sleeves outside of wanting to pork Judith - it's an inane storyline. If it turns out otherwise, Ecbert has a tiny chance at redemption.

As for Harbard...idk I liked him and his inclusion a lot personally. Hell one of my biggest disappointments with this season was how he just sort of dropped off, unless he comes back in Episode 10 or int he next season somehow.

I just don't like the fact that they broke the far more interesting approach Vikings had so far, namely that it leaves ambiguity. Are the Gods real or are they - more likely than not - not real in a physical sense, but they matter because people believe in them. With the inclusion of Harbard, all that good work kind of went out of the window, I don't see any plausible way to deny that the Gods aren't real in a physical sense on Vikings. All the Harbard stuff was just to on the nose.

But yeah, the Kattegat characters' storylines honestly might be the best it's ever been this season. I'd say Season 3 may have the highest high points of any Vikings season thus far, though Season 2 was more consistent.

I have been pondering this. This season had the best battle, without a doubt, but season two had a lot of memorable moments as well. I mean, the blood eagle was one of the best scenes I have ever seen on any show I think.