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Middle East and North Africa 19


Eyron

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The israeli military is more brutal on Palestinians than turkish military is on Kurds, Turkish army doesn't even fight guerrillas anymore they just defend the border. All these horrible twisted inhumane acts of turkey you hear was from 25-30 years ago. Turkey has changed, but Israel is still the same as it was in 1948.

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I have many Kurdish friends and honestly I would love to see a country called Kurdistan established one day as long as it doesn't involve dividing up and weakening Turkey. I support Kurdish independence from Iran, Syria, and Iraq.

Again. "We won't do nothing unless others do it first". May I ask because why? What is it about these special lands that the Kurds wants so much that the Turkish will not give it up?

Again I ask why should Turkey give it's land?

Let Israel give over Gaza and WB first and let's actually see Palestine established as it's own sovereign nation then maybe we could talk something about Kurds.

Yes, let someone else go first. Because being a respectable state and treating people as equals has nothing to do with this? Ugh. Do you wonder why Turkey is not allowed into the EU?

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Europe doesn't want turkey in the Eu because they see it as a huge threat and they can't accept the fact of having a Muslim majority nation in their union. Bunch of bigots.

Turkey doesn't need the Eu anymore, turkish economic situation is better than most European nations anyway.

By the way where are you originally from if I may ask? Are you actually Japanese or from Israel.

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Europe doesn't want turkey in the Eu because they see it as a huge threat and they can't accept the fact of having a Muslim majority nation in their union. Bunch of bigots.

Turkey doesn't need the Eu anymore, turkish economic situation is better than most European nations anyway.

By the way where are you originally from if I may ask? Are you actually Japanese or from Israel.

Hahaha you are great :). Please continue.

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Europe doesn't want turkey in the Eu because they see it as a huge threat and they can't accept the fact of having a Muslim majority nation in their union. Bunch of bigots.

Turkey doesn't need the Eu anymore, turkish economic situation is better than most European nations anyway.

By the way where are you originally from if I may ask? Are you actually Japanese or from Israel.

Does it matter where I am from? I am not Israeli, if that helps your world view some perhaps. I think you should read back into my posts in the old thread to get some clues, if you are so curious.

I'm glad that Turkey is doing to well financially, but you represent a great example of why EU is not going to let Turkey into the EU.

In the framework of “Positive Agenda”, Working Groups were established on 8 chapters (“3-Right of Establishment and Freedom to Provide Services”, “6-Company Law”, “10-Information Society and Media”, “18-Statistics”, “23-Judiciary and Fundamental Rights”, “24-Justice, Freedom and Security”, “28-Consumer and Health Protection” and “32-Financial Control”). The “Positive Agenda” kick-off meeting was held on 17 May 2012 in Ankara with the participation of Stefan Füle, EU Commissioner for Enlargement and European Neighbourhood Policy. As a result of the Working Groups meetings held so far, a total of four closing benchmarks were confirmed to have been met by Turkey in three chapters (Company Law, Consumer and Health Protection and Financial Control chapters).[25][26]

here's the deal

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Does it matter where I am from? I am not Israeli, if that helps your world view some perhaps. I think you should read back into my posts in the old thread to get some clues, if you are so curious.

I'm glad that Turkey is doing to well financially, but you represent a great example of why EU is not going to let Turkey into the EU.

here's the deal

I don't care if your Israeli or not that has no impact on any of my views, you know where I'm from its only fair if I knew the same for you.

I believe you already know why EU doesn't want Turkey. Like I said Turkey doesn't need the EU, Turkey isn't even a European country I'd rather they join a Turkic Union instead.

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I don't care if your Israeli or not that has no impact on any of my views, you know where I'm from its only fair if I knew the same for you.

I believe you already know why EU doesn't want Turkey. Like I said Turkey doesn't need the EU, Turkey isn't even a European country I'd rather they join a Turkic Union instead.

But of course Turkey needs the European markets...

With regard to your Turkic Union...that's a pipe dream of Turkish nationalists, nothing more. Under Erdogan this has become a dream of the Neo-Ottoman Empire, a pipe dream as well.

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Again. "We won't do nothing unless others do it first". May I ask because why? What is it about these special lands that the Kurds wants so much that the Turkish will not give it up?

Yes, let someone else go first. Because being a respectable state and treating people as equals has nothing to do with this? Ugh. Do you wonder why Turkey is not allowed into the EU?

Eh, the EU is hardly a good measure of any positive trait a country would have. Its members have a ridiculous number of skeletons in the closet, much worse than those of Turkey.

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Eh, the EU is hardly a good measure of any positive trait a country would have. Its members have a ridiculous number of skeletons in the closet, much worse than those of Turkey.

Honestly, can we finally leave the EU out of this discussion. No one is forced to join the Club. If Turkey doesnt need or want EU membership anymore, Erdogan simply has to cancel the membership negotiation and fine. And that should be the end of this provocative strawman discussion initiated by fellow user Jon the Con.

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Eh, the EU is hardly a good measure of any positive trait a country would have. Its members have a ridiculous number of skeletons in the closet, much worse than those of Turkey.

I agree that some nations within the EU are still not 'clean' in all aspects but for the most part the skeletons are long since out of the closet. I mentioned this earlier, in the last thread. The old deeds are in general recognised. This is not the case with Turkey as you can see. History is still being rewritten.
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I agree that some nations within the EU are still not 'clean' in all aspects but for the most part the skeletons are long since out of the closet. I mentioned this earlier, in the last thread. The old deeds are in general recognised. This is not the case with Turkey as you can see. History is still being rewritten.

History's being rewritten with the ridiculous creation of a state in the Middle East (and the relevant involvement of colonial powers). I did not mean to say that the old deeds have not been discussed, or that they're hidden (in which case I probably misused the "skeletons" phrase). They just aren't solved. Recognition and self-awareness isn't even the first step to solving political problems.

I'm dead curious as to which countries are "clean" in the EU, particularly western ones.

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History's being rewritten with the ridiculous creation of a state in the Middle East (and the relevant involvement of colonial powers). I did not mean to say that the old deeds have not been discussed, or that they're hidden (in which case I probably misused the "skeletons" phrase). They just aren't solved. Recognition and self-awareness isn't even the first step to solving political problems.

I'm dead curious as to which countries are "clean" in the EU, particularly western ones.

This discussion is off topic.
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But of course Turkey needs the European markets...

With regard to your Turkic Union...that's a pipe dream of Turkish nationalists, nothing more. Under Erdogan this has become a dream of the Neo-Ottoman Empire, a pipe dream as well.

Why not? Look at the Arabs, they formed their own "Arab League", the Africans have their AU, and Europeans the EU, why shouldn't Turkic states be able to form their own union? The first steps are already being taken, "Türksoy" (International Organization of Turkic Culture) was formed in 1993, following that the Turkic Council was established in 2009.

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Here's an interesting article from Der Spiegal about the structure of ISIS and the architect of that structure. It seems most of the tactical and strategic minds behind ISIS are ex-Baathist intelligence officers. I know there was some speculation about ISIS and Baathists having an alliance but this seems to suggest their running the show as key member of the organization at least as far as tactics and state building are concerned.



Also I would suggest the jump from Baathist to islamist isn’t as great as some would make out. Sure the ideologies are opposed but I doubt someone becomes an intelligence officer in Saddam’s Iraq because they are a believer in party ideology no they do it to get power and privilege and power and parrot the necessary ideology. Also they do want the same thing in the end a Sunni state in the Levant with themselves as the rulers.


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Why not? Look at the Arabs, they formed their own "Arab League", the Africans have their AU, and Europeans the EU, why shouldn't Turkic states be able to form their own union? The first steps are already being taken, "Türksoy" (International Organization of Turkic Culture) was formed in 1993, following that the Turkic Council was established in 2009.

Is your hatred for Israel and anti Kurdish independence views linked? Cause Israel is one of the few countries that supports a Kurdish State

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  • 2 weeks later...

I can't find the Israeli politics thread, so I'll put this here instead.



So, Bibi only has until midnight tonight to still try to get a functional Israeli government together. It seems likely that he still will, but since Lieberman dropped out, it'll only be the bare minimum of 61 seats; which seems like a recipe for an unstable government subject to all the whims of its junior member parties. And to get it, Bibi will have to give away the farm to Bennett, which could cause the other parties to up their demands to stay in too.



If he can't get it done in 8 hours, another party gets a shot a forming the government, which would almost certainly mean center-left Zionist Union. My questions are, is there any chance ZU could get a government together* and if they can't does another election occur? I assume the president could ask another party to take a shot, but who else could have a reasonable chance at putting something together (and how weak would they be, not even being the largest party in their government, since they'd need either Likud or ZU)?




*My math says they get to 50 without too much trouble, but then they need to get two of the three of: the Joint Arab List, Lieberman, and one of the religious parties. Maybe Lieberman joins in exchange for staying foreign minister just to piss off Bibi some more, but I don't see how a deal is made with one of others.


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I can't find the Israeli politics thread, so I'll put this here instead.

So, Bibi only has until midnight tonight to still try to get a functional Israeli government together. It seems likely that he still will, but since Lieberman dropped out, it'll only be the bare minimum of 61 seats; which seems like a recipe for an unstable government subject to all the whims of its junior member parties. And to get it, Bibi will have to give away the farm to Bennett, which could cause the other parties to up their demands to stay in too.

If he can't get it done in 8 hours, another party gets a shot a forming the government, which would almost certainly mean center-left Zionist Union. My questions are, is there any chance ZU could get a government together* and if they can't does another election occur? I assume the president could ask another party to take a shot, but who else could have a reasonable chance at putting something together (and how weak would they be, not even being the largest party in their government, since they'd need either Likud or ZU)?

*My math says they get to 50 without too much trouble, but then they need to get two of the three of: the Joint Arab List, Lieberman, and one of the religious parties. Maybe Lieberman joins in exchange for staying foreign minister just to piss off Bibi some more, but I don't see how a deal is made with one of others.

Following up on this because I am also interested in the story of Netanyahu's new government. Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo has posted analysis essentially saying that Netanyahu has had to give the Tea Party-types of the Israeli right a bigger say, and because his coalition is only 61 of 120, he's basically a prisoner of the extremists he had to get in bed with.

Without Lieberman the maximum number of seats Netanyahu could assemble (without making a dramatic overture to the center-left) was the exact same number as the absolute minimum required to form a government: 61 seats.

That meant that Bennett could demand almost anything and Netanyahu had little choice but to give it to him. And that is largely what he did.

Over the course of negotiations (and even before the March 17th election) Bennett has pushed for the Foreign Ministry and Defense Ministry. But in the final bickering the real plum his party wanted was the Justice Ministry - a portfolio which is less visible from abroad but is critical for the policy agenda Jewish Home espouses.

That post will go to Ayelet Shaked, a Michele Bachmann type figure most known for thinking Israel currently has too much democracy and too many rights for its non-Jewish ethnic minorities - which mainly means the country’s Arab minority. Also a too independent judiciary. This and other reasons are why Netanyahu fiercely resisted this demand and appears to have spent the final hours of negotiations finding ways to fence in the authority Shaked would have in the position.

The key reality is that literally any member of Netanyahu’s coalition, let alone any party, can credibly threaten to topple the government at any time. So he is hostage to the most clownish members of the parties he’s built his government on. And his team has a high density of clowns. They are the most right wing and/or most theocratically affiliated parties in the state. On its face, the government would seem primed to push through various anti-democratic legislation and more pointedly a new wave of settlement activity outside the core blocs of settlement. But the brittleness and instability of the government is likely it’s most significant attribute.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/bibis-government-declares-war-on-itself

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