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Tracing Targaryen Blood in the Female Line


Mithras

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I've suggested that the Targaryens actually need dragons to remain stable. If their blood calls out to dragons but cannot bond with a dragon the effects could be declining mental health and/or worsening mood changes/obsession with fire and stuff.



Vice versa, the weaker Targaryens like Aenys greatly profited from their dragon bond, and grew stronger.



It is actually quite interesting that there were, apparently, no mad Targaryens of the Rhaegel or Aerys II type before the death of the dragons, and most certainly no of the sort of Aerion, Daeron the Drunk or Aegon V who all ended up doing stupid things due to their obsession to bring dragons back (or dreaming of dragons).



I've made the case that Prince Daemon was an example for an unhinged Targaryen who got sort of stabilized by Caraxes but still suffered from minor mood swings (but by far not as worse as Aerys II).



And Maegor's sadistic tendencies and bad character traits may have only fully developed because he spent the first twenty-five years of his life without a dragon.


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Do you mean no mad Targs pre the death of Dragons ? You kinda forgot to finish that paragraph. So I'm assuming that is what you meant.



I like it, it's an interesting idea. Looking at the "mad" targs pre the loss of the Dragons though we have Maegor who I actually don't think was at all mad, just a complete arsehole megalomaniac



Daemon I didn't think was at all mad. what makes you think that. he seemed totally normal if a bit unscrupulous.



The only exception I think is Jaehaera Targaryen she had a dragon Morghul and she was described as simple. Which I took to mean she was mentally unwell.



Other than her though I think all the Targs pre the loss of the Dragons were indeed mentally normal. We do have the malformed babies as well which always fascinate me. I do think the Targs have a gene or something like that from actual dragons and this is what makes a dragonrider. And that that gene is present via blood magic. I can buy the concept that the Targ Madness is happening because of the loss of dragons. Do you have any evidence or is this based on a feeling? I'd love to see any text which has given you the idea. Because you know I do like text that backs shit up. :thumbsup:

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If Sweetrobin has a drop of dragon blood, can he become a dragonrider?

Come on, it would be unbearably awesome.

BTW, Aenys was a sickly and weak child but he got stronger after bonding with his dragon.

If SR claims a dragon you will hear the thousands nay millions of fans who hate him for being a young child who is grieving for his parents & has epilepsy roaring in anger and lobbing their books at walls all over the world!!

Bahahahahaha :devil:

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Yeah, that's what I meant. Note also that the physical/mentally weaker Targaryens like Aenys are also prominent after the Dance - Daeron II, Aerys I, Rhaegel, Daeron the Drunk, Jaehaerys II.



And Aegon the Unworthy is a very good example for a Targaryen who got unhinged/could not control himself. He wasn't mad but clearly not 'normal' either.



I see Prince Daemon as 'mildly mad' due to his mood swings. He made quite a lot of irrational decisions, was impatient, and essentially had good and bad phases. Say, he wanted power - why not play the game, stay on the Small Council, but actual effort in your work, and destroy Ser Otto Hightower to replace him as Hand? He failed to do that. Then there is the Stepstones Kingdom which is first important to him and then he ignores it when other opportunities arise.



The best example is the Dance itself - during the first half Daemon is very much in control, he makes a careful plan, rallies lords to Rhaenyra's cause, arranges her revenge, and delivers KL to her almost without a fight. Yet afterwards he gets carried away by whatever feelings he had or developed for Nettles, and subsequently threw away his life and abandoned not only Nettles and Rhaenyra, but also his son and his daughters.



Thus I'd diagnose Daemon with a milder version of the madness Aerys II suffered from - who essentially was also a man who had a changeable nature.



This theory is mostly based on the fact that later Targaryens acted on their dragon dreams or were driven mad by them, and the desire to bring them back. This would not have happened if the dragons had still been around.


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I agree the dragon dreams are very unnerving for some of the targs. Some seem able to handle them, whilst others like Daeron are completely consumed with distress over them, seeking to drink them away!



Shireen seems to cope reasonably well, but she isn't a happy girl. I wonder if a dragon of her own would help her. or eat her. :frown5:


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As to the nature of the dragonlord dragonbond:



That could essentially be anything. From bathing in dragonblood - the usual take on Siegfried the Dragonslayer from the German legend is that he gets hard skin from bathing in dragon blood because he effectively becomes the dragon - to sex with dragons (indicated in TWoIaF since the Valyrians actually mated slave women with animals, or some kind of magical dragon-human-merging.



But we can be reasonable sure that the Targaryens and other dragonlord descendants do indeed have 'dragon blood'. Whatever that means in detail or they acquired is not yet clear.


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Do you mean no mad Targs pre the death of Dragons ? You kinda forgot to finish that paragraph. So I'm assuming that is what you meant.

I like it, it's an interesting idea. Looking at the "mad" targs pre the loss of the Dragons though we have Maegor who I actually don't think was at all mad, just a complete arsehole megalomaniac

Daemon I didn't think was at all mad. what makes you think that. he seemed totally normal if a bit unscrupulous.

The only exception I think is Jaehaera Targaryen she had a dragon Morghul and she was described as simple. Which I took to mean she was mentally unwell.

Other than her though I think all the Targs pre the loss of the Dragons were indeed mentally normal. We do have the malformed babies as well which always fascinate me. I do think the Targs have a gene or something like that from actual dragons and this is what makes a dragonrider. And that that gene is present via blood magic. I can buy the concept that the Targ Madness is happening because of the loss of dragons. Do you have any evidence or is this based on a feeling? I'd love to see any text which has given you the idea. Because you know I do like text that backs shit up. :thumbsup:

I believe many thought Jaehaera suffered from autism. I could be wrong, but I thought that was mentioned in tPatQ thread some time back. If that is the case, I guess she is not 'damaged' in the same way as other 'mad' or 'sickly' Targaryens were. I happen to like Lord Varys' idea though, and have seen him discuss it before. in simplified terms I would say it's: dragon+targ=stability/wholeness.

If SR claims a dragon you will hear the thousands nay millions of fans who hate him for being a young child who is grieving for his parents & has epilepsy roaring in anger and lobbing their books at walls all over the world!!

Bahahahahaha :devil:

I certainly believe Sweetrobin will see a dragon at some point, although I doubt he will be a rider himself. Possibly there will be something similar to Visenya and Ronnel Arryn with one of the riders and Robert. I would say the more likely option for such an interaction would be Daenerys; if Tyrion rides a Dragon, Robert would not take kindly to the "bad man" I don't think, whereas Dany has a motherly side to her
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But it makes sense to take the Pander as the husband of Falena. After all, this Lucas the Pander seemed to be pimping his wife and his daughter (who was actually Aegon IV’s own daughter) to the king. Timeline also allows his son Manfred to be the Manfryd o’ the Black Hood.

Aaah,gross even for Targaryens :stillsick:

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I believe many thought Jaehaera suffered from autism. I could be wrong, but I thought that was mentioned in tPatQ thread some time back. If that is the case, I guess she is not 'damaged' in the same way as other 'mad' or 'sickly' Targaryens were. I happen to like Lord Varys' idea though, and have seen him discuss it before. in simplified terms I would say it's: dragon+targ=stability/wholeness.

I certainly believe Sweetrobin will see a dragon at some point, although I doubt he will be a rider himself. Possibly there will be something similar to Visenya and Ronnel Arryn with one of the riders and Robert. I would say the more likely option for such an interaction would be Daenerys; if Tyrion rides a Dragon, Robert would not take kindly to the "bad man" I don't think, whereas Dany has a motherly side to her

Oh I must have missed the autisim connection but I never read TP&TQ threads as when it came out I had to wait to read it because it was a christmas present. So by the time christmas day rolled round, all the discussion was done and the threads were many pages deep, and I just felt unable to read through it all.

I think most people think robert Arryn will get a ride on a Dragon, don't they? and I agree has to be Danny in her "mother" role.

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If SR claims a dragon you will hear the thousands nay millions of fans who hate him for being a young child who is grieving for his parents & has epilepsy roaring in anger and lobbing their books at walls all over the world!!

Bahahahahaha :devil:

Um, what? More like we hate him for being a sniveling little brat who was seriously unstable long before either of his parents died and has a very unhealthy obsession with casually throwing people off mountains.

Aaah,gross even for Targaryens :stillsick:

It's a good thing it didn't happen then. The timeline does not add up. At all. Jeyne was legitimately a Lothston.

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I've suggested that the Targaryens actually need dragons to remain stable. If their blood calls out to dragons but cannot bond with a dragon the effects could be declining mental health and/or worsening mood changes/obsession with fire and stuff.

Vice versa, the weaker Targaryens like Aenys greatly profited from their dragon bond, and grew stronger.

It is actually quite interesting that there were, apparently, no mad Targaryens of the Rhaegel or Aerys II type before the death of the dragons, and most certainly no of the sort of Aerion, Daeron the Drunk or Aegon V who all ended up doing stupid things due to their obsession to bring dragons back (or dreaming of dragons).

I've made the case that Prince Daemon was an example for an unhinged Targaryen who got sort of stabilized by Caraxes but still suffered from minor mood swings (but by far not as worse as Aerys II).

And Maegor's sadistic tendencies and bad character traits may have only fully developed because he spent the first twenty-five years of his life without a dragon.

What did Daeron The Drunken do to try to bring dragons back? He prophesying their return, but he didn't seem to be trying to fulfill the prophecy. He seems to me someone that struggled with the weight of expectation and comparisons with his father and cousins (Baelor's sons), and his prophetic dreams were a curse rather than a blessing.

Daeron would have fit in fine with the likes of Viserra, daughter of Jaehaerys I & Alysanne. Neither fit the stereotype expected of royal children, but neither seemed mad.

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Yes, I should have been more precise. Daeron was ruined by his prophetic dragon dreams, not by his attempts to bring the dragons back. But I imagine the magic in the blood was the same.



I was following Maester Aemon's judgments there that all his brothers were killed by their dragon dreams - Daeron by the weight of the future, Aerion by his mad belief to transform himself into a dragon (like Aerys II in the very end), and Aegon V by his dreams leading to his attempt to hatch seven dragon eggs.


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There is a lot of Targ lineage that we really don't know anything about as well. For example, Maekar I's daughters Rhae and Daella's marriage history has never been explored. They most likely would have gotten married and had children, but nothing is confirmed. Apart from the Baratheons, whatever house they married into should have the among the least diluted Targaryen bloodlines left in Westeros.


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Enter Lord Varys' Daella-Dunk-Tarth theory :) (which, again, I quite like, even if it ends up not being true).

Irrespective of that, the World book suggests the Tarths have married into the Targaryens family

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