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How would you rate episode 502?  

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  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

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I loved this episode.

The only thing I didn't like is the little time they spent on the Lord Commander's election. It felt extremely rushed.

On the other hand we had great scenes with Arya (I got chills when Jaqen was re introduced, and that music also contributed), a cute talk about greyscale, interesting changes from the books with Brienne and Jaime, a well done introduction to Doran and, again, I need to highlight what they are doing at Meereen. So far it'ss my favourite plot.

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Just seen it and really loved that episode, it gave me a strong sense of where we are going (no spoilers) and expanded the plot far more than last season. Like someone else I felt the lord commander election was slightly rushed and a little cheesy at times but happy with it. Personnally cannot wait to talk to my unsullied friends about Mereen as I can see them having melt down that not all is going perfectly for Dany.

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A 6 rating. Another poster much earlier in this thread remarked that nothing 'got' any weight. It was like we moved from one situation to another, without any hints about what they will mean in the future. There was a toy that used round slide-like things and you would insert one of the slides and there would be maybe 8 or 10 images when you clicked the bar. I think it was called a ViewMaster...??? That is what this episode reminded me of - oh look, Brienne finds Sansa, oh look, Jon is elected, oh look Arya is at the HB&W, oh look Dorne is angry, oh look, Dany beheads ....and so on. It just seemed like a series of images without any real depth or understanding.

Now, as a book reader, I can provide the narration and the context and the meaning (if the scene had happened in the books :-) but if I had not read the books, I think I would feel adrift in events. I do wonder what the professional reviewers are saying...?

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It was a solid builder episode, a standard for the second of a season. I gave it a 6.

The first reintroduced the characters, this set up how things will start to unfold.

Ayra is on her way to being trained. Jon as Lord Commander will have the difficult job of dealing with Stannis, the watch and the the wildlings.

Stannis is still demanding to be seen as King, as much as Dany is trying to be Queen and Cersei is struggling to hang on to power.

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They are butchering the books... Characters┬┤ mindsets, characters and motivations totally changed, usually in an absurd way: Ellaria, Doran, Kevan, the Kindly (Kindly?) man... The Lord Commander election was ridiculous. Jaime is off to Dorne on a whim, to save Myrcella singlehandedly (oh the irony). Brienne keeps meeting people by chance, never mind Westeros is as big as the Americas...

Edited by Rhoynar
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Now, as a book reader, I can provide the narration and the context and the meaning (if the scene had happened in the books :-) but if I had not read the books, I think I would feel adrift in events. I do wonder what the professional reviewers are saying...?

My wife followed it just fine and she never read the books.

The story is much simpler. The direction each character is moving is fairly clear. The parallel stories of those trying to rule are obvious.

The hardest part for her is trying to keep track. Things like why Cersei's daughter was sent away and by whom are really only fresh in the minds of obsessive fans - like us :D

There still alot of mystery, there is no way for her to guess where its all heading, but thats the fun in watching a series.

Edited by kefln
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7/10. I liked the first ep better actually, because it had Maggy the Hottie, also because it was a pleasant surprise to see Lancel act just like he did in AFFC. It was great seeing Arya finally make it to Braavos and I really like Doran Martell. His appearance is very different from in the books but the character is still the same. Also Ser Barriston's advice to Dany was great, sounds like word for word from the books, even if it wasn't told like that. I didn't like that she had that dude killed. I don't think that happened in the books, but it's become so cliche at this point. In the books Ned, Robb and ____did this - all sentenced to death by a sword. But unlike the other three, Dany didn't swing the sword herself. And Brienne/Pod is a mess. To me it feels so cheesy that they actually meet Sansa. I knew it was inevitable, after Brienne met Arya but it just feels so awkward. Any scene with Brienne is awkward. I have a feeling she may finally seek her revenge on Stannis this season and I hope they kill her off.

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I'm struggling to score this one. On the one hand, the good scenes were very good, I felt; Stephen Dillane, Kerry Ingram, and John Bradley at the Wall really did a fantastic job, and the Meereen scenes were again a highlight for me this episode (a surprise, tbh, as they disappointed a lot last Season for me)

On the other hand, the parts I disliked felt like really big let downs; Brienne/Pod/Sansa/LittleFinger (again. Was disappointed last week too), King's Landing (except Kevan! :bowdown: ) and Dorne...

I'd provisionally say 6, as the inconsistency for me would place it lower than last weeks, which was stronger overall but with fewer standouts, and I voted that a 7. I might change my mind later and bump it up to a 7 too

ETA: and for an episode called "The House of Black and White" I found Braavos scenes very forgettable, as I did with Tyrion/Varys scenes

Edited by HelenaExMachina
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Cersei and Margaery are depicted in a much better light on the show than they are in the books. GRRM's female characters tend to be stupid, crazy, and/or sex-crazed. The main exception is Arya, a tomboy and killer.


George writes female characters very well. Not sure what books you're reading.

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I think the questioning sharply will come later when things begin to deteriorate. Right now Dany is still in the early stages of ruling in Meereen and trying to do the right thing.

I agree with Nic, I think that Dany did the right thing. Not only did the slave disobeyed a direct order he undermined her authority. He gave her no choice.

It's not that Dany didn't do the right thing for me. She did. But it's that the situation was out of left field when I take her ADWD arc/story into consideration. It's not *her* it's the story they gave her. She's still my Queen. #TeamKhaleesi4Life! #ReReadJokes ;)

I doubt "question him sharply" will be included for three reasons:

  • the show cut the shavepate.

Daario said it rather conspicuously in Ep 2.

the execution scene seems to serve as the show version of moral ambiguity scene since it has done something that wasn't there in the books: the children now "hate" their Mhysa i.e. hissing has replaced crowd surfing. The way I see it, as the children question her, we are also meant to do the same. :dunno:

Also, the show seems to have cut GG and in this episode the guy whop was killed, the one who was hiding in the wall, was repeatedly identified as the Harpy.

Also because the TV audiences are totally enamored of her and D and D don't want to show some of the more disturbing/questionable moments in ADWD. The things we read as her being a very gray character, but that they will more or less ignore.

Edited by BearQueen87
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She's hardly even the same character tbh. Her and Tyrion have probably received the most whitewashing.

I prefer book Cersei personally. :dunno:

I definitely prefer the show one. She feels like an actual human being, not a caricature.

I love how skewed the distribution of the scores is.

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Brienne isn't even the same character anymore.. :thumbsdown:

This is really not doing it for me, this Brienne Warrior Princess BS. She's so damned different! I liked her before, but now I want her to just go away. She was more bearable in this episode, but really: so much screentime? Brienne? Don't tell me she's got a shot at the Throne or AA just because she's a girl with a lot of screentime for reasons I just can't discern. (Pod saved those scenes).

But still, Kevan made this a 10/10 for me. Stannis... everything at the Wall, just excellent. Lena H's acting is a reason to tune in, as is PD's and guy-who-plays-Varys. Sansa sends chills up my spine, which is strange because I'd thought/imagined Arya would "feel" like the "in a dark place" character, but it's Sansa.

I should knock it down to 9/10 because too much Brienne, but I simply enjoyed the rest so much I couldn't bear to. Best show on TV; felt like it was over way too fast.

Edited by Locke081
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Because just acting angry and yelling, and throwing stoness won't get the point across that your upset. Act like animals grrrrr lets see those teeth. I need more nose flaring and teeth baring come on now, you are freed slaves. Maybe we should have them bark? No lets have them

Love that all the men are making either noble or smart choices, while the woman? Well I guess thinking goes out the door for them on this show. Sansa, bad choice after bad choice. Cersei, don't have to say much. Selyse, yeah don;t have to say much. Mel, I like cock, cock gives me shadow baby power, and I am dark and scary. Ellaria, grrrrr kill children who have done nothing wrong. Dany hey I know lets have ap ublic execution now put all the slaves here and the slavers here. This going to go over big. Missy, do you have a penis, Marg, plot, plot, plot, manipulate child, Arya oh kill, kill, kill, dead eyes, Gilly I know what an S is, yeh an S. Lollys I am so sweet and stupid OMG Jaime Lannister, breath, breath. Shit Dany made a good choice about the law being the law and holding a trial for a criminal, quick stupid public execution and lets not even bother with a reason for it, but lets make sure to show the men making the right call and Dany making the wrong one. Note the Tyrion comment, Cersei' best part and his. Not that Cersei is a good person, just consider it an overall theme that D&D are enforcing.

Yep, that's ummm that is a great way to depict women. So empowering D&D, good thing all the men are around to guide them and show them how to do things the right way.

probably make them act like dumb animals, ok everyone snalr and bare your teeth, you people over thier get down on your hands and act like dogs who are about to attack, we need more snarling and teeth baring, remember your former slaves and slaves act like animals.

Have you actualy read the books yourself? All these things you're complaining about are more less taken from books. Yea, there are some changes, such as "replace Ellaria for some Sand Snake", but in general thats what GRRM wrote.

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