[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa XIII - Ghosts of offers passed

[ADanceWithCats]

Same here! And I kinda like the, I don't know, symmetry of both Stark girls refusing Brienne's help. Poor girl can't catch a break

More importantly, it shifts the focus of Brienne's story from "searching for those girls we know where they are" to "who I am".

Also, Littefinger is great. A 2m warrior comes and threatens you? Invite her to a drink!

Finally, after having to endure SanSans claiming that Brienne would tell Sansa not just about Arya, but about the Hound: lol. Mentions of Sandor Clegane so far in the season: 0.

[AdmiralKyrd]

The weirdest part of this setup is that I initially approached Littlefinger's retorts as him lying, like he usually is, but seeing as he doesn't know about the shadow baby, he probably does think Brienne is some crazy liar who killed Renly herself. It would be the explanation that most appeals to his cynical personality.

In his discussion with Tywin back in S2, Baelish mentioned the rumors of Renly's demise, including the rumor, think that Brienne slew him, I do recall though he ended it with (paraphrased) "Some mentioned other forces at work, dark forces..."

Found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcisB3xFHKQ#t=2m19s

[The Last Left Fighting]

All I have to say is chapters and chapters of Brienne travelogue going around asking everyone where Sansa Stark her auburn haired, high born sister is culminates in her walking up to Littlefinger of all people, surrounded by a pretty good sized crop of soldiers (when you're only one fighter) and being like "Hey Sansa let's get out of here." ... dear lord, stealth escapes this character every time. I have a spot in my heart for Brienne but I can't help but shake my head at times.

Given her well executed persuasion, I'm totally not surprised Sansa turned her down. I mean, really, what sort of case was Brienne making for herself there? :lol:

Also, Sansa, that proposal isn't for LF. And you're not going to like what it really is.

Assuming LF and Sansa are heading to WF to meet up with the Boltons, and assuming Brienne and Pod do follow them, I have to wonder if circumstances will change. If Sansa will end up going with Brienne after all once things go downhill (as they surely will)? Currently my theory is:

1. Proposal is between Sansa and Ramsay.

2. Sansa flips out, but LF talks her down and wheedles her into it.... somehow? Not sure how but he's good at the manipulation game. And I think his intention really is to get Winterfell through Sansa. WHY he wants the place is up for debate - for more land and power? For Sansa because she "could have been his daughter" or for self-satisfaction because it used to belong to the guy who stole Cat from him? Hard to say what LF's end of things is, but I don't think he's throwing Sansa to the Boltons for the hell of it. He's got to have some plan of how she can gain sole control of the castle.

3. But I think LF is biting off more than he can chew with this new "alliance." Between Ramsay who is a nutter and unpredictable, and Roose who is formidable in several ways, I think LF's plans are not going to go smoothly and he's going to flee, probably having to leave Sansa behind.

4. Sansa will have to find her own way, and I think she'll have to bump into Theon at some point, and recognize him. Perhaps through him, she'll find out about her brothers being alive? And maybe learning this might urge her to find them/go to other family, like Jon. The problem will be escaping WF. That can happen one of two ways: Either Brienne/Pod make some sort of rescue effort to spirit her from the castle, or there has to be someone else inside WF to help Sansa escape (with/or without Theon... I can see something like in ADWD when he and fArya jumped off the battlements, but hopefully some way that's less likely to break a few bones).

5. They head to where Jon is, or get taken into custody of Stannis.

Spoiler tags because I'm not sure if that applies?

[The Last Left Fighting]

There's actually another Inn in Westeros that's not called The Inn at the Crossroads?

D&D are getting sloppy with the streamlining, I see. :dunno:

[Sultan of Westeros]

Hiding Sansa but not disappearing her completely might be a plan of Littlefinger, i mean hiding her for her safety but leaving enough clues and rumours everywhere to indicate Sansa Stark (i.e Stark heir in view of population) is alive.

Also Sansa made a good decision sticking with LF because LF is the most suitable man in 7 kingdoms to guarantee her safety based on his intellect, wealth, resources and new found power, and she knows the weak spot of LF which is fascination with Cat/Sansa, brienne is just one fighter with unconfirmed loyalty. Stick with the devil you know as they say.

[rayarts]

What I like about this is, that Brienne won't give up with Sansa. I don't think she will loose her like she lost Arya out of sight.

And then Brienne will play a major part in the "North-liberation" or whatever. I am quite sure, that in the end Brienne will

fullfill her vow to Cat, one way or another

[Sultan of Westeros]

What I like about this is, that Brienne won't give up with Sansa. I don't think she will loose her like she lost Arya out of sight.

And then Brienne will play a major part in the "North-liberation" or whatever. I am quite sure, that in the end Brienne will

fullfill her vow to Cat, one way or another

I hope for "Catelyn Stark sends her regards"

*driving sword into Roose Bolton's chest

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I think Brienne will be tested and be forced to choose her vow to avenge Renly and her vow to keep Sansa safe. She will have to ally with Stannis to accomplish the latter. But can she do it knowing Stannis is the man who killed Renly.

[The Last Left Fighting]

I think Brienne will be tested and be forced to choose her vow to avenge Renly and her vow to keep Sansa safe. She will have to ally with Stannis to accomplish the latter. But can she do it knowing Stannis is the man who killed Renly.

Ooh, that would be an interesting plot.

[TheReal_Rebel]

It is possible that someone at the inn tries to get word back to Cersei, hoping for a reward. But without proof how can she believe anyone?

If she does believe, some peasants--did anyone see any nobles there? --maybe Qyburn has a few informants. Though, in the books he's awful as Master of Whispherers.

LF has Sansa and is taking her to Bolton's at WF she wouldn't see it necessarily as an immediate threat to Tommen, as she believes both LF & the Bolton's are loyal to house Lannister. Maybe a circumstance she will have to deal with later

Right, now everything is falling a part in KL and she is preoccupied with Dorne, Myrcella, Margery, Tommen and raising money.

I'm glad Brienne & Pod are following Sansa & LF North, more likely to run into Stannis.

[Lord Buckethead]

You think Brienne might remember to inform Sansa her sister is alive... But, no... Stannis shadow was what they had to talk about.

While I can agree with almost any plot hole brought forth in this discussion, this paticular one is one that I think there is a good explanation for:

Brienne simply doesn't trust anyone, and particularly not Littlefinger. By not saying anything about Arya she is effectively protecting Arya. Had Brienne been allowed to talk to Sansa alone, she probably would have mentioned that Arya is alive as well.

[voodooqueen126]

Well Sansa will regret refusing Brienne's offer once she is married to Ramsay Bolton.

[Lord Damian]

My thoughts exactly but if she went with Brienne, however, maybe she is butying time for herself as LF would have sent all of those men to chase them down and Sansa would have been taken against her will and maybe treated worse. She seemed to want to go with Brienne but gauged the situation and actually warned Brienne that she should go (she had a gut feeling that LF would have Brienne killed). Sansa is looking for lifelines. Viable ones.

[Mladen]

Well Sansa will regret refusing Brienne's offer once she is married to Ramsay Bolton.

That one is certain.

While I can agree with almost any plot hole brought forth in this discussion, this paticular one is one that I think there is a good explanation for:

Brienne simply doesn't trust anyone, and particularly not Littlefinger. By not saying anything about Arya she is effectively protecting Arya. Had Brienne been allowed to talk to Sansa alone, she probably would have mentioned that Arya is alive as well.

To think that the viewers have to do their work... Again, lazy writing...

[Amoracchius]

I sure hope the writers have a good reason for that.

If Brienne cares about Arya's safety and if she doesn't trust Littlefinger, that's all the reason in the world not to mention seeing Arya. Brienne probably figured she'd inform Sansa about her sister once she got her away from Littlefinger.

[Amoracchius]

It wouldnt have mattered if Brienne had said Arya is alive.

Sansa already knows that because LF already told her in S3.

He said so early in S3, true, but so far he's done absolutely nothing to back up that claim or show Sansa he has any interest at all in finding and protecting Arya. Moreover, the last time he saw her (if he even recognized her) Arya was in Harrenhal with Tywin. Since then, Harrenhal has changed hands a couple times and Tywin died, so Littlefinger has no idea where Arya is now.

[Grail King]

If Brienne cares about Arya's safety and if she doesn't trust Littlefinger, that's all the reason in the world not to mention seeing Arya. Brienne probably figured she'd inform Sansa about her sister once she got her away from Littlefinger.

I get the Arya portion and LF told Sansa her sister is alive but he did not reaffirm that statement when Sansa asked him "you saw her" he just stared out to sea.

What is foolish is she went right up to them and blurted out their names, she should have listen to Pod on this one, and just followed them for a bit longer.

Just stalk them and Kidnap her ,they have a better chance of survival then in a crowded inn.

And special effects have to do a better job of Brienne cutting hitching post and hanging ropes in the show. LOL

[Grail King]

Wonder if they are letting Pod and Sansa find each other?

Brienne going to teach him how to fight and ride.

That be weird.

[Lord Damian]

Do any of you remember Mel in season 3 telling Stannis and Davos that something about leading lambs to the slaughter and that none of them ever saw the blade until the end. It reminds me of Littlefinger and Sansa. He has not told her yet that SHE is the betrothed and to WHO she is betrothed to. She is following him just like the lambs in Mel's story. Not that she has a real choice. Brienne gives her some hope but it was sensible not to take it, giving the outnumbered forces as well as observing her in King's Landing. Sansa does not trust Littlefinger but he is all she has. Remember, apparently White Harbor and Wyman Manderly are not at play in this and that sucks. Jon is at the Wall, but he is just now been elected Lord Commander, when word gets out, I wonder how it may or may not change the dynamic from Littlefinger and the Bolton's perspective.

[FilipeFreitas]

Would Sansa refuse Brienne's offer if she knew about the marriage proposal? That might depend on how much she was told:

"Listen, you're going to marry Ramsey Bolton in order to get the North back."

"BTW, he used to be a bastard."

"BTW, he was the one who burned Winterfell."

"BTW, he's the son of the guy who killed your brother Robb."

"BTW, he's really into torturing people."

One thought about the marriage, though: it might be just a bethrothal. Something like: "They can't marry until the Imp is dead, but with the price on his head, it's just a matter of time, you know..." And perhaps Littlefinger doesn't really intend that they marry, but wants to postpone while he plays Wyman Manderly in Winterfell?