[BOOK SPOILERS] The Death of Ellaria Sand as we knew her

[Good Guy Garlan]

Yeah, maybe I just don't care about Ellaria all that much because I don't mind this change as much as I thought I would

t

And who knows, maybe they give the "where does it end?" speech to Hotah. God knows he's the blankest of the blank slates so they could give him any personality whatsoever and I wouldn't bat an eye

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Careful there, your spoiler panties might be showing. Jaime hasn't gotten to Dorne yet, so how would Ellaria know he was there to exact revenge by killing him? She only knows she has Myrcella and they've already sent her necklace wrapped around a snake statue to send the message that she's in danger - so the stage is already set. I'm assuming Ellaria sent that necklace and if Doran knew, he'd be pretty pissed off, as he should be ... it's antagonizing. If you got that necklace in the mail, wouldn't you want to rush off and save your child?! Of course they fell for the bait.

Because Jaime is Cersei's lover like Oberyn was hers. That would be "fair".

My basic point is Ellaria is emotional and grief is confusing her thoughts.

Also, she hasn't done anything YET.

But there's a reason we discriminate between first and second degree murder.

Ellaria is one of the sanest person in the books. Why change that? It's not like we don't have one character like that in the sh-- oh, wait... Cersei is not like that. She's all rational and cool. It's Jaime the one who is a neurotic mess because whatever.

:lol:

Lotta pissin and moaning going on up in here.

"Worst change by far" gimme a break! Who cares, the story isn't about the sand snakes and Ellaria Sand. The story isn't about Dorne. They're trying to show that Dorne wants vengeance for Oberyn. Ellaria is a familiar face with a right to have a grudge. Who better to introduce this side of Dorne then someone the viewers are familiar with?

Sorry but this doesn't excuse it. Oberyn as a new face and his portrayal was so good that became an instant favourite.

Also, what's the story about, then? Dorne is introduced because they will play a part. Except here they have nothing to play as there is no Arianne, no Quentyn, no anything. They're there to prove they fuck like there is tomorrow. Also, they're different.

[C.T. Phipps]

Yeah, maybe I just don't care about Ellaria all that much because I don't mind this change as much as I thought I would

t

And who knows, maybe they give the "where does it end?" speech to Hotah. God knows he's the blankest of the blank slates so they could give him any personality whatsoever and I wouldn't bat an eye

It's also possible she may feel that way until she talks to Myrcella and discovers she's not her mom.

Ellaria is one of the sanest person in the books. Why change that? It's not like we don't have one character like that in the sh-- oh, wait... Cersei is not like that. She's all rational and cool. It's Jaime the one who is a neurotic mess because whatever.

I think it's because I don't really think it makes her a very believable representative of Dornish culture. Revenge and blood-crime is a part of Westeros society.

We need someone wanting to hurt Myr for what her mom did because that's how Westeros values work.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Now that I think about it, Ellaria is not Arianne, she is Dark Star.

She will convince Trystane (who is Arianne in this scenario) that they should spirit Myrcella away to crown her, but really she just want Myrcella dead to start a war.

[The Agency of Sansa Stark]

Because Jaime is Cersei's lover like Oberyn was hers. That would be "fair".

Ellaria is one of the sanest person in the books. Why change that? It's not like we don't have one character like that in the sh-- oh, wait... Cersei is not like that. She's all rational and cool. It's Jaime the one who is a neurotic mess because whatever.

Sorry but this doesn't excuse it. Oberyn as a new face and his portrayal was so good that became an instant favourite.

Also, what's the story about, then? Dorne is introduced because they will play a part. Except here they have nothing to play as there is no Arianne, no Quentyn, no anything. They're there to prove they fuck like there is tomorrow. Also, they're different.

Ok well that's entirely your opinion and your welcome to it. Appology not accepted

[Turinsbane]

I didn't think Ellaria taking the place of Arianne was a terrible change, but then she started talking less like Arianne Martell and more like Ramsay Bolton. Which confuses me to no end. "Send her back in pieces?" Really? Even the most hotheaded of the Sand Snakes weren't psychopaths.

[C.T. Phipps]

I didn't think Ellaria taking the place of Arianne was a terrible change, but then she started talking less like Arianne Martell and more like Ramsay Bolton. Which confuses me to no end. "Send her back in pieces?" Really? Even the most hotheaded of the Sand Snakes weren't psychopaths.

Words are wind. She wants to strike out against the Lannisters and this is just an example.

However, even Ned Stark took a hostage in Theon Greyjoy.

The point of taking a hostage is killing them if their people act up.

[Gogossos]

Who is this side bitch bastard, just a glorified whore to be talking to the Prince of Dorne that way? Implying she may overthrow his rule just to get revenge? I can kind of understand Arianne's scheming getting a pass from Doran because it's his daughter but why would he put up with Ellaria's bullshit?

Exactly!!! I get that the writers want to make her vent but most of what she said was treasonous. I'd have loved to see to Doran order that she be locked up in her room.

:lol:

Lotta pissin and moaning going on up in here.

"Worst change by far" gimme a break! Who cares, the story isn't about the sand snakes and Ellaria Sand. The story isn't about Dorne. They're trying to show that Dorne wants vengeance for Oberyn. Ellaria is a familiar face with a right to have a grudge. Who better to introduce this side of Dorne then someone the viewers are familiar with?

Dorne was introduced in season 2 by Tyrion and Myrcella. We haven't visited but we already know a lot about them, viewers wouldn't be confused by anything. The Sand Snakes can handle the vengeful side just fine. Ellaria needed to show another side, and Doran yet another. I suspect that to make them all monolithic and vengeful is so that Jaime is seen as heroic, rescuing his daughter from the clutches of this vengeful/evil family. Ughh.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Look, this has nothing to do with the character being changed. Really, we're not as stupid as people believe to pretend that no change is going to happen at all. When changes are done right, mostly watchers and book readers are ok with them.

The point is that the character is inconsistent with what the show itself has already established. Like, Ellaria went from smart brave kind woman to I WANT TO KILL EVERYONE DESPITE THAT WOULD ENDANGER MY OWN CHILDREN.

Do they believe they make the character a favour? Do they think this is an accurate portray of a strong woman? A psychopath?

And it's not just Ellaria. Tyene is the same. In books, she's a woman who prefers knowledge about poisons rather than learning how to use a weapon. Because that's her weapon. Oberyn wouldn't mind giving her education on how to use a sword or a spear if she had wanted to. But she has chosen this. It was her option in life, just like Obara likes her spear, Nym likes her knives and Sarella is now in Oldtown. No. SHE HAS TO HAVE a weapon. That makes her strong: physical violence.

D&D's portrayal of woman is becoming cartoonish.

[El Guapo]

Who is this side bitch bastard, just a glorified whore to be talking to the Prince of Dorne that way? Implying she may overthrow his rule just to get revenge? I can kind of understand Arianne's scheming getting a pass from Doran because it's his daughter but why would he put up with Ellaria's bullshit?

I don't who were those side bitch bastard daughters in the books to be talking to the Prince of Dorne that way?

[The Agency of Sansa Stark]

I agree that she should never have been talking to Doran that way. It was hysterical

[C.T. Phipps]

The point is that the character is inconsistent with what the show itself has already established. Like, Ellaria went from smart brave kind woman to I WANT TO KILL EVERYONE DESPITE THAT WOULD ENDANGER MY OWN CHILDREN.

It seems a very realistic reaction to want revenge. In real life, victims of crimes who lose their loved ones, often want war or revenge.

In WW2, how many Americans wanted revenge against the Japanese?

And who suffered far less personal losses.

[James Arryn]

I get why it bothers people; in the books her speech about the pointlessness of revenge is a very strong moment. But just from a show POV this aligns fine. It's the other path, but not an unreasonable one. Doesn't bother me.

[C.T. Phipps]

I agree that she should never have been talking to Doran that way. It was hysterical

I had difficutly with doran not cracking up at her threatening him.

[RoamingRonin]

The only issue I have with TV-Ellaria was her desire to butcher Myrcella and send her back to Cersei in pieces. That was a bit much. Ellaria Sand doesn't have to be the character who gives the "vengeance is bad" speech so it doesn't matter if TV-Ellaria is out for blood. This is one of the better changes.

Besides, the TV show might not even want to incorporate that theme about vengeance anyway.

[Cashless Society]

I don't who were those side bitch bastard daughters in the books to be talking to the Prince of Dorne that way?

Uhhh. . . . . . . . Arianne's cousin?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The Sand Snakes had reasons to be mad at Doran.

The Lannisters not only killed Elia and her kids. They were -as they saw it- responsible for Oberyn's death and when they protested, something Dorne was doing as well, Doran imprisoned them. I would be offended if my uncle was doing nothing after my father's death.

We later found out Doran had plans, and Oberyn was aware. That's why he "did nothing" when Elia died and he had plans of his own to take down the Lannisters. The Snakes didn't know this.

Now, in the show, what is Doran doing? Who knows. There is no Arianne to marry Viserys, so... who knows :dunno:

[Bran's Legs]

D&D had to show Dorne's anger for the Red Viper in one scene tonight while introducing an important character, Doran. They did that. It was fine.

[Denam_Pavel]

I don't who were those side bitch bastard daughters in the books to be talking to the Prince of Dorne that way?

The Sand Snakes asked permission first, and ultimately we dunno what they would do. Ellaria already declared war on Cersei on Dorne's behalf. Comparing her to Darkstar is an insult to the integrity of Darkstar's character, honestly.

[sleath56]

I can't believe this is what replaced the dialogue of hilarious insults the Sand Snakes and Arianne threw at Doran.

Doran's character seems a bit too assertive and wise for a first appearance. In the books, he was represented as being weak, weary, unable to defend himself from the Sand Snake Inquisition's verbal assaults and lacking any plans whatsoever; which made the payoff of his surprising Fire and Blood speech very gratifying, and all the more enjoyable.