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AGOT Reread- Tyrion


Barba

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Here are the weeks with Tyrion Chapter

Oct. 9- Arya(I) Bran(II) Tyrion(I)

Oct. 23- Tyrion(II) Catelyn(III) Sansa(I)

Nov. 6- Jon(III) Eddard(IV) Tyrion(III)

Dec. 4- Tyrion(IV) Arya(III) Eddard(VIII)

Dec. 18- Bran(V) Tyrion(V) Eddard(X)

Dec. 25- Catelyn(VII) Jon(V) Tyrion(VI)

Jan. 29- Catelyn(VIII) Tyrion(VII) Sansa(V)

Feb. 12- Daenerys(VII) Tyrion(VIII) Catelyn(X)

Feb. 26- Sansa(VI) Daenerys(IX) Tyrion(IX)

Tyrion (I)

Introduced: Septon Chayle* (priest and librarian of Winterfell).

Tyrion is reading as dawn approaches. He hears Bran’s direwolf howling as Bran lies dying. Tyrion meets Sandor Clegane and Prince Joffrey in the yard. He tells Joff that he should go pay his respects to Lord Eddard and Lady Catelyn, and that his absence has been noted. Joff laughs at this, and Tyrion slaps his nephew twice across the face and forces him to present himself to Bran’s parents. Tyrion joins Cersei and Jaime at breakfast. Prince Tommen is hopeful Bran will live, and Tyrion notes his younger nephew’s difference in disposition to his older brother Joff (Myrcella as well is noted as sweet like Tommen, where Joff is a bastard). Tyrion mentions that Maester Luwin believes Bran will live, and he catches a glance between Cersei and Jaime at this news. Tyrion states his wish to go with Benjen Stark and see the Wall. After Cersei leaves, Tyrion mentions that he hopes Bran wakes, because he would be most interested in hearing what the boy has to say. Jaime asks him whose side he’s on, and Tyrion says with a smile "You know how much I love my family".

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Some things I noticed this time around:

1. Tyrion, from the very beginning of the chapter, is set up as a civilized, educated man. The first line involves him putting down a book, shuddering at the wildness in the wolf's call, and reading in the Stark library.

2. The book Tyrion was reading was a 100-year old volume about the changing of the seasons by a long-dead maester. Along with this in the Stark's library, we know that they have a number of Valyrian scrolls, including a rare one on Engines of War, plus a book on the life of Grand Maester Athelmure.

3. Tyrion is not fond of sleeping. Kind of interesting, since we know that one of things described when he's imprisoned in the Eyrie is a lack of sleep, and when he's in a strong position at King's Landing he actually manages to sleep comfortably.

4. We get another description of Joffrey. Tyrion mockingly says that "The Starks can count past six, unlike some princes I know." This seems to suggest that Joff is bad with numbers. That would be one thing he's got in common with Sansa, along with being sheltered and spoiled.

5. There is a bit of irony on Joff's part. He says he "can not abide the wailing of women", yet he threatens to "tell Mother!" when Tyrion hits him.

6. I think we can be pretty certain that Tyrion believes, or at least strongly suspects, that his siblings were involved in the injuries of Bran Stark. The chapter describes him specifically watching for their reaction when he tells them that Bran will probably live, and later on he provokes Jaime by saying that he wants to hear what Bran has to say.

7. There are two major incidents of what appears to be foreshadowing. The first is Cersei saying about the Stark wolves "There is something unnatural about those animals. They are dangerous. I will not have any of them coming south with us." (p.76) Along with that, there is Jaime's statement that "Even if the boy lives, he will be a cripple. Worse than a cripple. A grotesque. Give me a good, clean death."

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4. We get another description of Joffrey. Tyrion mockingly says that "The Starks can count past six, unlike some princes I know." This seems to suggest that Joff is bad with numbers. That would be one thing he's got in common with Sansa, along with being sheltered and spoiled.

And being beautiful

7. There are two major incidents of what appears to be foreshadowing. The first is Cersei saying about the Stark wolves "There is something unnatural about those animals. They are dangerous. I will not have any of them coming south with us." (p.76) Along with that, there is Jaime's statement that "Even if the boy lives, he will be a cripple. Worse than a cripple. A grotesque. Give me a good, clean death."

Noticed this too. Guess he changed his mind later

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One of the parts that struck me was how eloquent the Hound was in this chapter: "Spirits of the air." Almost Shakespearan. He snarls or threatens though the rest of the series.

I too, wondered about Joff's ability with numbers. And where Joffrey pick up the phrase 'I cannot abide the wailing of women." Doesn't sound like the talk of a boy. Does anyone else believe Joff dies a virgin?

It's also humorous that Cersei, the incestuous adultress, is incensed by Tyion's flithy language and drags Tommen and Myrcella from the morning room. Morning room is from the German.

I wonder if Jaime will want to give Myrcella a good clean death when he sees (if he ever does) what the Darkstar did to her. As noted, he did not seem in a hurry to die when his crippling come to pass.

Although GRRM has given the reader has plenty to dislike about Jaime already, he piles in on in this chapter. I wonder why he worked so hard to make him a scumbucket and then rehabbed him with Brienne. Or is it a combination of the hand and Brienne?

I know I have said this before, but I believe that Tyrion's vast knowledge from his reading will make him invaluable to someone. Especially the things he knows about dragons...

Hm. I did a lot of wondering in this post. Sorry.

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Although GRRM has given the reader has plenty to dislike about Jaime already, he piles in on in this chapter. I wonder why he worked so hard to make him a scumbucket and then rehabbed him with Brienne. Or is it a combination of the hand and Brienne?

Almost certainly both. It took the loss of the hand (a loss that is utterly irreplaceable and priceless, which nobody can buy back no matter how rich or powerful their lord father is) to put him "into the pit", so to speak. Brienne, who was the complete opposite of the other dominant female in his life (Cersei), helped pull him out.

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First Tyrion chapter, and we already see the reason of his downfall: His relationship with his familly (Cersei and Joff).

Things noticed:

- When Joff went away, Sandor said: Prince will not forget this.

- The talk between the brothers at the last pages of the books. Did you notice that the talk between brothers happend here (first Tyrion chapter of GOT), and in last Tyrion chapter in SOS. Tyrion mocks his brother very much, it seems. They seem to have very good relationship. It is a shame what their relation turns after Jaime's confession at SOS.

I noticed similarities between Tyrion and Illyrio: Mocking with obvious stuff:

“I suppose,†her brother said doubtfully. “The savages have queer tastes. Boys, horses, sheep . . . â€

“Best not suggest this to Khal Drogo,†Illyrio said.

Anger flashed in her brother’s lilac eyes. “Do you take me for a fool?â€

“He could end his torment,†Jaime said. “I would, if it were my son. It would be a mercy.â€

“I advise against putting that suggestion to Lord Eddard, sweet brother,†Tyrion said. “He would not take it kindly.â€

“Even if the boy does live, he will be a cripple. Worse than a cripple. A grotesque. Give me a good clean death.â€

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If you think about it and read carefully, this chapter is a very good exposition on Tyrion done primarily through showing, rather than telling. Tyrion isn't described as smart and civilized; rather, we are introduced to him when he's reading, in the middle of a library, and we hear his shudder at the wolf howl. We aren't told that he is perceptive and sharp; rather, we see him probe Cersei and Jaime, and it is described that he deliberately watched for their reactions.

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We aren't told that he is perceptive and sharp; rather, we see him probe Cersei and Jaime, and it is described that he deliberately watched for their reactions.

From Jon1:

"A bastard had to learn to notice things, to read the truth that people hid behind their eyes"

Kinda proves Tyrion's line from same chapter:"All dwarfs are bastards in their father's eyes"

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After rereading this chapter it reaffirms how much I like Tyrion. He is a smart character, and has a good head on his shoulders. There is one main theme that struck me about Tyrion in this chapter.

The theme is family. It struck me how for all of Tyrions intellegence and truthfullness it is his family that brings about his current downfall (or at least his flight from the Seven Kingdoms, but we all know he will be back). On one hand, being born a Lannisters is his saving grace, coming from a powerful family has given him many advantages in his life. He also later mentions that if he were not a Lannister he probably would have been sold to a circus. But having a sister like Cersei, a nephew like Joffrey, and especially a dad like Tywin leads Tyrion into much trouble and keeps him from reaching his full potential. Family is his double edged sword.

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I found the last paragraph of the chapter interesting. Tyrion smiles wolfishly at Jaime. It seems as though GRRM is telling us that Tyrion is a good guy even though he comes from a family of A-holes. It's OK to root for him. We start to think that Tyrion will be a good friend to the Starks until he returns to Winterfell from the Wall. Then we're not so sure based on the reaction of the direwolves to him.

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I found the last paragraph of the chapter interesting. Tyrion smiles [bold]wolfishly[\bold] at Jaime. It seems as though GRRM is telling us that Tyrion is a good guy even though he comes from a family of A-holes. It's OK to root for him. We start to think that Tyrion will be a good friend to the Starks until he returns to Winterfell from the Wall. Then we're not so sure based on the reaction of the direwolves to him.

That is an excellent point. But why do you think the direwolves all act threateningly toward him? I thought it might be that the Starks don't trust the Lannisters. But Rickon wouldn't know that. And doesn't Ghost menace him twice? I think that is odd, particularly because Tyrion comes back with the saddle to help Bran.

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That is an excellent point. But why do you think the direwolves all act threateningly toward him? I thought it might be that the Starks don't trust the Lannisters. But Rickon wouldn't know that. And doesn't Ghost menace him twice? I think that is odd, particularly because Tyrion comes back with the saddle to help Bran.

I don't really know. Maybe we'll come up with something when we get to that chapter.

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Unless I am remembering wrong, Tyrion seems to be the only one try to teach Joff anything, and occasionally resorts to violence when he doesn't get his way. Yet he has a deep resentment for his own father, enjoys mocking him, and doesn't always take his advice either. I wonder if his handling of Joffery in this chapter is perhaps indicitive of his own father issues.

Editted to add one more thing.

Regarding Tyrion and his tumbling from the Jon thread. I found this in the SSM fan correspondance archive (its a pain to look through that thing btw :mad: .)

February 23, 2002

Tyrion’s Tumbling

I have one other small thing I wanted to ask if that's okay. I was re-reading GOT and I noticed that you had Tyrion doing flips and handstands at the feast at Winterfell and I was wondering if you had planned on giving him a "gymnasts" skills or a sort of circus midgets skills and then decided you didn't want that, because I don't ever remember him doing anything like that again in the series.

Well, the occasion did not call for it... but you may see some more along those lines in the new book.

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I don’t have much to add that hasn’t already been said. This is probably the most straightforward chapter so far.

Since I’m all about the imagery, here are a few images I noticed:

While Bran describes Winterfell as a stone tree, Tyrion sees it as a stone maze.

Clegane casts a shadow twice in ths chapter. Plus, his armor appears to “blot out the sunâ€. Is Martin trying to tell us something about the Hound? What is the significance of shadows in this series, considering we’ve already seen it mentioned about Tyrion in the Jon chapter, and it seemed linked to the Others in the prologue. I recall Melisandre having an interesting speech about shadows as creations of light in ACOK. It’s something I’ll watch.

The Heart is linked to Robert in this chapter. Per Cersei, Robert takes the Stark’s sorrow “deeply to heartâ€. Jaime then adds, “He has a large heart, our Robert.†Since Martin has taken so many pains to link hearts to Catelyn, I doubt that line was a simple throw away. I’ve thought hearts symbolized motherhood. Perhaps it is just strong emotion? Unreasonable emotion, maybe?

“(Jaime’s) smile curdled like sour milk.†This line would not ordinarily have resonated, except milk was one of the metaphors used to describe the Others in the prologue, and it pops up in odd places (milk of the poppy, Milkwater River, milk mother, etc.). I’m really not sure of the significance of milk in the series, yet.

The Septon’s wear crystal in a silver chain. This oddly melds some of the practices of the Maesters. We know silver is the metal of healing for the Maesters, and it appears to have the same symbolism with the Faith as well. Crystals are interesting, though, since they are not metal. Maesters have metals of all kinds, while the Faith has crystals. Do crystals come up elsewhere in the series?

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The Septon’s wear crystal in a silver chain. This oddly melds some of the practices of the Maesters. We know silver is the metal of healing for the Maesters, and it appears to have the same symbolism with the Faith as well. Crystals are interesting, though, since they are not metal. Maesters have metals of all kinds, while the Faith has crystals. Do crystals come up elsewhere in the series?

Does it say that all Septons have the same chain, or just Chayle? I'm not sure about that connection between silver and healing for the Septons. While the septons can heal people, its usually the maesters that people turn to when they are sick. And it seems to me that some septons don't even bother with the necklaces. Did Meribald or the elder brother even have one? I've always taken the use of precious metals to be indications of their status in the church heirarchy and social heirarchy. Not like the maesters boyscout badge chains.

Does dragon glass count as a type of crystal?

Also whatever happened to Chayle anyway.

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Does it say that all Septons have the same chain, or just Chayle? I'm not sure about that connection between silver and healing for the Septons. While the septons can heal people, its usually the maesters that people turn to when they are sick. And it seems to me that some septons don't even bother with the necklaces. Did Meribald or the elder brother even have one? I've always taken the use of precious metals to be indications of their status in the church heirarchy and social heirarchy. Not like the maesters boyscout badge chains.

Does dragon glass count as a type of crystal?

Also whatever happened to Chayle anyway.

Good points. This is my first reread since reading AFFC, and I have never paid much attention to the Faith previously. I'm not sure if they all wear silver chains or not. I assume Martin is consistent with his symbols, so if silver means healing for the Maesters, it must mean healing for the Faith as well. The more I think of this, the less I am sure this is the case with any of his symbols. You may be right that the chains are for heirarchy.

Dragon glass does not count as a crystal. Obsidian is formed when lava interacts with water. It gets its coloration from the iron and magnesium in the lava. While it looks crystal-like, it has no crystal structure of its own.

Doesn't Chayle get killed by Theon or Ramsey when Winterfell is put to the torch? I don't really remember anything about him.

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Doesn't Chayle get killed by Theon or Ramsey when Winterfell is put to the torch? I don't really remember anything about him.

He was killed by Theon in CoK. Bran tried to warn him, only he didn't belive. He was drowned in the well (sort of sacrifice for Drowned God)

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