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AGOT Reread- Tyrion


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Tyrion II

Introduced: Yoren* (wandering crow [recruiter] of the Night’s Watch);

Morrec* (one of Tyrion’s retainers, a cook and groom).

Legends: Aegon the Dragon (Aegon the Conqueror, first of the Targaryen DragonKings, wed both his sisters, conquered the Seven Kingdoms [except Dorne] and united them; came overseas from the ancient Freehold of Valyria, bore the legendary Valyrian sword ‘Blackfyre’ which was passed on to all the Targaryen Kings until Aegon IV gave the blade to his bastard son Daemon Blackfyre);

Balerion (the Black Dread, the largest of Aegon’s three Dragons);

Meraxes and Vhaghar (the other two dragons of Aegon ridden by his sisters, all three dragons named for ancient Valyrian gods);

King Loren of the Rock (ancestor of the Lannisters, last King of Casterly Rock, bent the knee to Aegon the Dragon);

King Mern of the Reach (King of the Reach, King Mern IX, last king of House Gardener, killed on the battlefield known as ‘The Field of Fire’ against Aegon the Dragon).

Tyrion travels north with Benjen and Jon to visit the Wall. They are joined by Yoren with 2 rapers he had procured for the Night’s Watch. Tyrion is reading a book about dragons, and thinking of the history of Aegon conquering the Seven Kingdoms. King Loren and King Mern had 55,000 men in their army against maybe a fifth that number in Aegon’s army, most freeriders of questionable alliance. Aegon’s army crumbled against the greater numbers, but, for the only time, Aegon unleashed all three of his great Dragons creating the Field of Fire which decimated the enemy, killing King Mern. Jon comes over to talk to Tyrion, and the dwarf explains why he reads so often. Tyrion also tells the truth about what the Night’s Watch has become, with most members societal discards like rapers, poachers, thieves and bastards. Jon takes offense, and when Tyrion feels sorry for what he said and reaches out to touch Jon on the shoulder, Ghost smashes the dwarf to the ground. Jon calls the direwolf off. Jon then begins to realize that what Tyrion said of the Night’s Watch is true, and Tyrion tells him "Most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it". Tyrion Lannister is not one such man, and neither is Jon Snow.

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And herein lies the core of the Tyrion is a Targ, Tyrion is the Third Head, and Tyrion is ... theories. Why? Tyrion is fascinated by dragons. I doubt this is the first book about dragons he's read... someone who can intelligently comment on complete copies of Aermyrdon's Engines of War has probably read everything out there on a subject he's actually interested in. Which leads me to believe that Tyrion knows more about dragons than, perhaps, anyone else alive.

I don't buy Tyrion is a Targ. I don't know if I see Tyrion as the Third Head of the Dragon...

[The following may contain ADwD spoilers... though limited to material published by GRRM]

SPOILER: ADwD
I do think that Tyrion will be instrumental in helping Dany resolve her current dragon-training issues. No one near Dany, Selmy included, knows squat about dragons. But Tyrion has read about them, and probably has read all the books on proper dragon upbringing and education... I think he'll be Dany's Master-of-Dragons.

Thoughts?

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This is also our first view of the *real* Night's Watch. All we've had until now are the occasional tale, and Benjen. You can't really blame Benjen though... yes, he's all lordly and dressed up in black finery. But hey, he *was* a Stark. And, he did come all the way to Winterfell for the visit of King Robert. If you're going to meet a king, you're going to get a bit dressed up.

That said, Yoren and a couple of rapists are not quite what we might have imagined. I suppose that's what happens when you've got an organization with no real perks, no perceived purpose, and a bitterly cold location. Not quite the cream of the crop.

We see Jon as the brat... stoically bratty and aloof, but still bratty. But we do see that there's a core in him that's better. He can accept his circumstances. It'll take Donal Noye to slap some sense into him, but he's made his first steps to where he needs to be.

We also see, for the first time, Tyrion's big mouth and the trouble it gets him into. He definitely prods Jon pretty hard on the Night's Watch and the life Jon chose. And while Jon's ability to accept it makes the end result admirable, I don't know what Tyrion was trying to accomplish. Was he testing Jon to see if he could accept it? Surely Tyrion recognized that if Jon couldn't accept it, all Tyrion was accomplishing was rubbing salt into a growing wound. When Tyrion took a similar approach at the welcoming feast in Jon I, Tyrion had some advice for Jon... here, he doesn't appear to.

Any thoughts?

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We also see, for the first time, Tyrion's big mouth and the trouble it gets him into. He definitely prods Jon pretty hard on the Night's Watch and the life Jon chose. And while Jon's ability to accept it makes the end result admirable, I don't know what Tyrion was trying to accomplish. Was he testing Jon to see if he could accept it? Surely Tyrion recognized that if Jon couldn't accept it, all Tyrion was accomplishing was rubbing salt into a growing wound. When Tyrion took a similar approach at the welcoming feast in Jon I, Tyrion had some advice for Jon... here, he doesn't appear to.

Any thoughts?

Well he did regret it a bit, and recognized that he'd said too much. I don't have my book with me, but IIRC Tyrion walks forward to apologize/pat Jon on the arm or something when Ghost attacks him. And when he's lying on his back and can't get up, he thinks to himself that he probably deserved being forced to ask for Jons help. So yes, he sure does have a big mounth, but he's also capable of recognizing when he's hurt someone and will act on this (if not attacked by a direwolf, that is).

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Well he did regret it a bit, and recognized that he'd said too much. I don't have my book with me, but IIRC Tyrion walks forward to apologize/pat Jon on the arm or something when Snow attacks him. And when he's lying on his back and can't get up, he thinks to himself that he probably deserved being forced to ask for Jons help. So yes, he sure does have a big mounth, but he's also capable of recognizing when he's hurt someone and will act on this (if not attacked by a direwolf, that is).

You're right... he does recognize that he probably deserved what he got... but I'm curious about *before* Ghost interceded... what did Tyrion hope to accomplish with his rough observations?

Or was this simply Tyrion mouthing off and getting himself into trouble?

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This chapter was kinda ... bleh. Not much happened. Aside from some history lessons, we also get some descriptions of the landscape in the North. In this book Tyrion and Jon had quite a few interactions, and seemed to get along with one another. I suppose these early Jon/Tyrion chapters are laying a foundation for something. I sure hope so, otherwise I don't see the point. One thing this chapters does, I think, is to expose some of the positive and negatives in Tyrions and Jons characters. Too me, both of them come off as cocky and arrogant at first, but later they both show that can accept that they made mistakes and move on. I thing I did notice on the reread was that the dragons were named for specific Gods. I don't know whose gods, but this is in contrast to the nameless old gods of the North.

Maester Yobjascz, you asked for thoughts on Tyrions attack on Jon:

Tyrion's words were not THAT harsh, IMO. His earlier paragraph about Jon being a bastard is worse. Tyrion is mouthy, but the AGOT pre Nightwatch Jon can fly off the handle if you push him even a little. I think the exchange was just to highlight each characters faults. Tyrion mouthy and selfish, Jon very tempermental, childish.

Another thing the exchange highlighted is that both characters seemed to making the wrong assumptions about things this chapter. Both have the wrong impression of the Nightswatch. It is not a noble calling, but it is not as bad (or as safe) as Tyrion makes it out to be here. We see later that there are alot of good people in the watch. Or I could be wrong by making my own assumptions about the characters making assumptions. :)

Foreshadowing

I find the the last few paragraphs in this chapter unsettling, though I don't know if it could be considered foreshadowing.

Tyrion says he also felt like the Dragons were watching him.

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Not much to add with this chapter

I liked quote

The Lannisters never declined, graciously or otherwise. The Lannisters took what was offered.

And about what was Tyrion trying to accomplish by telling jon all those stuff: Nothing. He simply has a big mouth. But it dosen't sound all that weird. He said couple of bad things about himself, things he is supposedly accepted. But we see that he is still having trouble with them, and he says all those stuff about Jon just to let him know that him (Jon) is not so different than himself (Tyrion).

And we learn that there are Mamooths on Island of Ibben. Strange info that kinda stucked in my head

EDIT: Timeline: most of chapter is 18 days after they departed from winterfell. so, it's Aug 24 :cool:

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The first time I read this chapter, I thought Tyrion was being set up to be a friend of the Starks, but it hasn't really happened in the series so far. This time I tried to pay attention to why Ghost attacks Tyrion. It seems as though Ghost is just reacting to Jon's feelings toward him. Ghost attacks right after Tyrion is telling Jon about the realities of the NW, and Jon yells "Stop it!" as Tyrion makes a move toward Jon. Later, at the Wall, Jon has accepted Tyrion's friendship, and Ghost accepts him too. When Tyrion goes back to Winterfell, Robb, Bran, and Rickon are distrustful of Tyrion, and so are their wolves.

Interesting quotes:

He had the Stark face if not the name: long, solemn, guarded, a face that gave nothing away. Whoever his mother had been, she had left little of herself in her son.

"Most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it."

"Most men," the boy said. "But not you."

"No," Tyrion admitted.

But Tyrion never really faced the hard truth that Shae didn't really love him.

More on the timeline:

They're somewhere in the mountains, so they're probably about two-thirds of the way to the Wall.

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Tyrion did face the truth of it, that's why he strangled her.

As for Tyrion's motivations here. I think it was just that he was pissed off and letting off some steam. I'm sure although the surface curtesies were observed, the Lannisters were not exactly made welcome in Winterfell, and I'm sure Benjen didn't exactly treatment Tyrion as a friend on their way to the wall. So Tyrion took the oppurtunity to give some of it back to a Ned Stark's son.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tyrion III

Introduced: Bowen Marsh (Lord Steward of Castle Black);

Ser Jaremy Rykker* (senior ranger of the Night’s Watch, killed by the wight Jafer Flowers);

Maester Aemon* (ancient maester of the Night’s Watch, once Aemon Targaryen, older brother of Egg [Aegon V Targaryen], died on sea during travel from Braavos to Oldtown).

Tyrion mocks Ser Alliser during dinner at the Lord Commander’s table. We learn that both Ser Alliser and Ser Jaremy were forced by Lord Tywin Lannister to take the black when he took over King’s Landing (both fought for the Targaryens on the walls of King’s Landing). After Thorne leaves in disgust, blind Maester Aemon declares that Tyrion "is a giant come among us, here at the end of the world". It leaves Tyrion speechless for once in his life. Later, Lord Commander Mormont beseeches Tyrion to speak to the King and his lord father about the condition of the Watch. He tells Tyrion that the Watch now totals under a thousand men, and that he has but 3 men to guard each mile of the Wall. Tyrion promises he would: And he would. Tyrion Lannister was as good as his word. When Tyrion leaves Mormont’s chambers, he is taken with a whim to see the Wall one last time. He takes a winch up to the top, and meets Jon. Jon asks Tyrion to help Bran, as Tyrion had helped him. Tyrion promises that he would, and Jon calls him ‘friend’.

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Maester Aemon remark during the dinner remains a mystery. Tyrion was clearly a clever man but he did or said nothing to be called a “giantâ€. Yet Aemon said adding a claim that it wasn’t just a compliment. Why? What did he sense in Tyrion?

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We learn that Tyrion is good at math; Mormont says that with 1000 men (almost) and a hundred leagues of wall they have three men per league, but Tyrion corrects him with a yawn: "Three and a third".

Tyrion never gets to keep his promise to Mormont; Robert is dead when he reaches Kings Landing and the Watch isn't exactly on the conversation list when he finally meets Jaime again. It is possible that he told Tywin but if so we don't hear of it.

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Tyrion does what he can for the Watch. He sends Slynt and other prisoners to the Wall with Ser Alliser when he is acting Hand. Although in hindsight, sending Slynt wasn't very helpful to the watch.

Ghost seems to have lost his anymosity toward Tyrion now that Jon thinks of him as a friend, although Jon hints that Ghost might not be so amiable of Jon weren't there.

Timeline:

We aren't told much about how long it has been since Jon's last chapter. The only hints we get are that Grenn and Pyp have had enough time to improve their swordmanship.

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We learn that Tyrion is good at math; Mormont says that with 1000 men (almost) and a hundred leagues of wall they have three men per league, but Tyrion corrects him with a yawn: "Three and a third".

Like Tyrion's reading, his "sage" advice to Jon on the night of the feast and the apparent discord between him and his siblings we have the image of Tyrion as an intellectual re-inforced, along with the implication that in time he will forsake his own House and side with the good guys (although it took longer than I ever expected, and he is later (esp. from Clash onwards) shown to demonstrate far more loyalty to House Lannister than I (still viewing the book with the cliches of a thousand Riftwars sitting on my shoulder) expected.

T

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I'm little behind, but finally I reread it.

I also noticed Maester Aemon's comment. This is the second time Tyrion is being called tall. First it happened at the end of first Jon's chapter. Got no idea what it means, so I think we still have to see that in the last three books. I'm starting to connect Tyrion with Giant from bran's fallling chapter, or with Sansa's phropercy with claying Giant in castle built of snow

We get many info about situation at the wall. I probably said this before, but here we get info about real man power, problems with wildings, spreading crushed stone across the walkways.

There was a 'massive catapult wich was taller than city wall.' When you read this you get the feeling about how strong it is. Then the next sentence:'The throwing arm had been taken off for repairs and then forgotten; it lay there like a broken toy, half-embedded in the ice.' This kinda reminds me of Night Watch. They have wall that is strong, but without man power wall can't do much. I kinda doubt, but I hope things will start to get better with Stannis. Hope dies the last:-)

This chapter gives to reader great mystical feeling about the stuff behind the wall. All that talk of Mormont's is later followed by describing of Haunted forest, and it is done in the way to make reader think weather stuff Jeor said had were accually real. Also Haunted forest is described as 'Wall of the Night', or IMO as Other's teritory.

Jeor says he saw 'darker shapes in his dreams'. Does this mean he is a GreenDreamer.

I wonther what white walkers are? Probably others, and they are seen by the shore at Eastwatch. This kinda makes me wonder: Genghis khan attacked china by bypassing the great wall of China. Maybe that is what Others will do. But I wouldn't like it. I want the wall to fall.

“Tell Robb that I’m going to command the Night’s Watch and keep him safe, so he might as well take up needlework with the girls and have Mikken melt down his sword for horseshoes.â€

Jon jokes about stuff that comes true. And not in his own chapter. I hope this means Arya dies (for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about reread last two Jon's sentences from first Arya chapter).

Timeline:

We aren't told much about how long it has been since Jon's last chapter. The only hints we get are that Grenn and Pyp have had enough time to improve their swordmanship.

IMO Jon helpes Everyone, and he mentiones only two of them slightly improving. I would put this chapter 3-5 days after Jon's chapter.

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Here's what I noticed about this chapter:

1. GRRM seems fond of using Irony. In addition to what we've seen in previous chapters, this has

-"We all need to be mocked from time to time, Lord Mormont, lest we start to take ourselves too seriously." Amusing coming from Tyrion, since we know that his family hates mockery (with specific mentions from both Tyrion and later, Jaime, that Cersei can not stand being mocked), and the vision to Jaime where we learn that being laughed at was Tywin's greatest dislike.

-Aemon's statement that being "kind" is seldom used in regards to him, when we see him do some significant kindness on Jon's part later on.

2. We see more of Ser Alliser Thorne. He's very prickly, and the Old Bear doesn't like him, but he seems to take the Night's Watch's mission very seriously, and bridles when Tyrion seems to mock it. This is also the first of two times that Tyrion sents Thorne away after tongue-lashing him.

3. According to the Old Bear, only twenty men outside of his main officers can read, which exhibits why Sam Tarly being able to read and write, and do figures, is significant enough that he becomes Aemon's assistant.

4. I strongly suspect Mormont has been having some version of the Green Dreams, or at least some magical dreams. Aside from his (possibly) magical raven, we have

-"There are wild things in the woods, direwolves, and mammoths and snow bears the size of aurochs, and I have seen darker shapes in my dreams."

-"Winter is coming, and when the Long Night falls . . ."

Although it can't be known for sure, I suspect that he may be or have had dreams about the movements of the Others southward. The fact that he describes the things in his dreams as 'darker shapes', when we know that the Green Dreams usually come in symbolic form, might be another hint.

5. The "White Walkers on the shore", as described by the fisherfolk near Eastwatch (presumably these are the people north of the Wall at Eastwatch, otherwise the Others have already breached the Wall's boundary) are almost certainly the Others. The wildlings and Ygritte in ASoS call the Others the "White Walkers."

However, no attacks are described, so perhaps these others are merely scouts.

6. This is more of an odd thought on my part, but when Mormont's raven flies down, looks Tyrion in the eyes, and says, "Fool", his reaction is anger.

It is probably just annoyance, but it could also tie into the irony of him saying that everybody should be mocked when he's a Lannister (and they hate mockery), along with the fact that we know that Tyrion doesn't really believe in the dangers beyond the Wall.

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  • 3 weeks later...

He had the Stark face if not the name: long, solemn, guarded, a face that gave nothing away. Whoever his mother had been, she had left little of herself in her son.

This is my first post, so forgive me if this has been talked about before...for those out there who believe the R+L = J theory, this quote totally supports that line of thought...Tyrion believes that Jon is Ned's son, so naturally he thinks the Stark qualities are from Ned. However, if he was L's son, he wouldnt show any qualities of R( so the quote could read "whoever his father had been, he had left little of himself in his son)..now I'm not the type who likes to guess how the book is going to go, I'd rather just read it and find out. But that is some pretty strong evidence along side the millions of other posts about that subject. There are too many posts for me to read through to see if this was brought up already...plus I just wanted to finally post something :)

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Tyrion IV

Introduced: Chiggen* (a sellsword);

Bronn (sellsword, later Tyrion’s right hand man, later knighted as Ser Bronn of the Blackwater, then marries Lollys Stokeworth);

Jyck* (one of Tyrion’s men);

Ser Willis Wode (hedge knight in the service of Lady Shella Whent);

Mohor*, Lharys* and Kurleket* (men-at-arms in service of Lord Jonos Bracken).

Tyrion, captive of Lady Catelyn, sees little chance of reaching the Eyrie alive. He was deceived, thinking Cat would take him to Winterfell, but he was blindfolded and found they were on the high road to the Vale of Arryn. Tyrion had tried at the inn to get men to go to his father, but if Lord Tywin sent men in pursuit, they were going the wrong way. As they ride, Catelyn confronts him about sending the killer with his dagger, and Tyrion denies owning the dagger. He mentions how Littlefinger boasts of having taken Cat’s maidenhead, which Catelyn denies. When Tyrion tries to give proof that he didn’t own the dagger, they are attacked by clansmen from the Mountains of the Moon. Catelyn agrees to arm Tyrion and his men. They survive the battle, but lose several of their men. Tyrion actually saves Catelyn’s life during the fight. Afterward, Tyrion finishes presenting his proof, telling Cat about the flaw in Littlefinger’s story- Littlefinger claims Tyrion won it by betting on Ser Loras and winning, but Tyrion tells her he lost the bet because he always bets on his brother.

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