Melissandre: True Believer AND Charlatan

[Green Hereseer]

Just finishing up another re-read of the series-- sweet Jeezus what's wrong with me?!-- and I think one of my favorite chapters in the whole shebang is Mellisandre's POV in AFFC (or is it DwD?). The main thing that strikes me is that she is both a true believer and a charlatan.

There is all sorts of spooky stuff we learn about her:

--Doesn't sleep
--Doesn't eat
--She really can bind shadow
--It is kind of suggested that she has lived an unnaturally long time (don't remember the text here, sorry)
--She REALLY believes the stuff she says about the LoL and the great other
--She REALLY believes her work is essential to saving the world
--She REALLY believes Stannis is AA (despite all her visions of "Snow"... dumb dumb dumb)

On the other hand, she is by no means above some serious B movie-level tricks:

--Powders to make fire rise, smoke, turn colors, etc.
--Believes that the trappings of power are hugely important
--Is a big fan of keeping things vague when it comes to her knowledge ("much and more!")
--Has a real "I'll show them" vibe about her memories as a young acolyte

I'm having a hard time remembering at the moment (I've had a few tonight) but I feel like there are other "true believer" moments for other characters in the latter books. I suppose Varys killing Kevan comes close. Anyhow, I find this to be hugely interesting. Doesn't have to do with speculation about plot so much as what GRRM is trying to say about his characters.

Discuss.

[Lady Winter Rose]

I don't understand all that Melissandre thing, but I think you have a point. She also demands that guards follow her every step because of impressions, she has "showgirl" vibre.

[Whitering]

Being a showman doesn't mean she's a charlatan.

[Green Hereseer]

Being a showman doesn't mean she's a charlatan.

She does claim a lot more certainty about the future and present than she really has.



My point isn't that she's a fake. It's that she really believes her schtick, really believes in the battle for the dawn, AA, etc. and has REAL F'ing MAGIC... yet instead of revealing some of those things-- doesn't need sleep, food, and can create glamours and shadow-monsters, she goes with fire powders and the trappings of power.

I think it all makes her a richer character-- the combination of certainty and doubt, genuine supernatural power and arguably cheap(er) tricks-- and I really hope we get more of her POV before this is all over.

[Steelborn]

She does claim a lot more certainty about the future and present than she really has.



She tries to interpret the visions as she gets. She doesn't read the books to have all the knowledge needed to correctly comprehend them.

And maybe she's waiting for the right time to act on it, we certainly know she has powers. So for the time being, she's being a showman to gather her power while the Others are nowhere to be found.

[Whitering]

She tries to interpret the visions as she gets. She doesn't read the books to have all the knowledge needed to correctly comprehend them.

And maybe she's waiting for the right time to act on it, we certainly know she has powers. So for the time being, she's being a showman to gather her power while the Others are nowhere to be found.

Exactly, who else would be running to the wall but "Arya" running from a marriage. She makes the best guesses based on the information she has, what else is she supposed to do? I don't get all the criticism launched at her for this. She could be more open about potential problems with her visions though.

[Nettles]

Well, she is an impostor- posing as a living, breathing human being while she is ...undead? I don't think there is a don't ask don't tell policy on that.

She does birth shadows, and knows her craft for sure.

[TheHeirToDorne]

I think she's fascinating and I think the way she's presented in the books is another example of GRRM's genius of turning tables and undermining tropes. After all, he called her the most misunderstood character in the book series. She's an example of how zealotry makes bad actions out of heartfelt causes. And that's only a start.

[Jono of Oldtown]

I really liked this chapter as well, made me rethink her whole character.

But is it all tricks? Powders do make fire change colour, is it a trick or just using knowledge dramatically and without explaining it? Is reading the flames a true communication with a god, or just knowledge of magic that she does/can not explain and she just passes it off as this. Depends on how you view a trick, the magic ones seam more mysterious to us because we dont understand them, and they are more powerful but the come at a higher cost. So just better 'tricks' eh?

[Zoip]

She is not a charlatan, I think. She is just in a position where she cannot show her insecurities and faults because the general public would not be able to seperate those from the good (from her point of view that is) she's doing. The power of her position is based on and requires absolute faith from her followers. A lot of leaders are in similar positions where they have to make hard or strange choices to maintain that faith. Dany had to send Ser Jorah away because otherwise people would start questioning her authority, for instance.