[Book Spoilers] EP503 Discussion

[Ser Creighton]

What's wrong with GNC being discussed if it hasn't been disproven yet? Is R+L=J off limits because it's just a fan theory?

Talk about it all you want man, not the point of what I said at all. But if a theory does not make it on the show so what? It's the show and if you want to talk about it, there is the book section and the actual thread. But what is the point in getting upset if a theory does not make it on the show. Even if they are right, not all of them will make it on the show it's different animal and a different medium.

Did you want to talk about which version of the GNC didn't make it on the show? Or that Sansas arc and the Bolton arc are a clear departure from the books which changes the Northern plot line, so it makes it really difficult on any theories about the North and the Vale?

Did you want to talk about Harry the heir theories? Clearly a character in the books, my post was more about who cares if a theory is not on the show, because it's the show and it is different. Not really anything anyone can do about that. Just shrugging my way through the show to be honest. Didn't bring up R+L=J either, seldom do, I did mention how it was now pretty easy to ride around the Neck, and it appears Westeros now has Texting because the mail gets there fast.

Just to be clear not saying that people should not talk about the GNC, just that who cares if the show does not have something like that at this point because... well do I really have to point out why with this show at this point? It's pretty self explanatory.

[Raksha 2014]

Why is GNC even a topic, it's a fan theory, granted the show seems to have become more and more fan fiction, but still, you can't expect every theory to be on the show.

You know what I found really intresting, these are some of the little things. Cersei sends a letter to LF via the Vale, and bam it's there and this is right after Roose mentions KL is a 1000 miles away.

The Neck and Moat Cailin, it appears from Pod and Brie, that you can now ride around the neck, though it is miles out of the way. Literally defeats the netire purpose of the Neck and Moat Cailin, you can't ride around.

LF plan is avenge them, thats it, thats the explination Sansa got? Like here I am going to toss you into a pit of starving lions, avenge the last people the lions ate. I actually have to wonder how much D&D know about the future books because this clearly has nothing to do with Sansas story, like nothing, like the Boltons will probably be dead before she ever sees the north again.

Tyrion got White washed in the Brothel, the angry drunk dward suddenly became the sweet charming sad dwarf. Oh and the greatest spy master in the world did not recognize his own spy, and managed to loose Tyrion within 5 minutes and Tyrion was not trying to run away. No the great and cautious spy master was not paying attention to the person he is suppose to be keeping an eye on. Tyrion got taken in Dance because he was alone in the Brothel, but here he is with one of if not the most observant humans on the planet, who is not paying attention to anything.

I still can't believe that TV-Littlefinger would be stupid enough to deliberately hand over his prize pawn to the hands of her mother and brother's killer on a silver platter and not have anyone in place already to at least look out for her. It's a good thing that Brienne and Pod are riding to her rescue. At least Pod might be able to get into Winterfell unobtrusively; Brienne not so much.

I can't really blame Sansa for agreeing to Littlefinger's plan; he's her only protector and hope at this moment (right where he wants her). She has nowhere else to go. Maybe she thinks she can salvage the Stark line if not the Stark name, or at least that the Boltons won't kill her anytime soon. (which, if they're wise, they would not)

Edited April 27, 2015 by Raksha 2014

[Hear Katy Roar]

Much, much stronger episode this week. I'm not loving the Faceless men stuff... yet... and obviously there are a ton of wild changes... but this was good TV today.

[James Arryn]

The stuff at the Wall was the strongest element, but again lacking any 'great' moments. I keep thinking all this middling stuff is setting up the explosions to come, but I'm starting to wonder if we're just on a new diet.

Nothing really bad (except maybe the KL/High Septon/Sparrow stuff that came off pretty juvenile) but nothing that really grabbed me, again. The Stannis/Jon chemistry was again the high point. Generally the floor is being raised but the roof is somewhat lowering.

Also Varys acted very unVarys.

Edit: as much as I'm struggling with the LF/Sansa plot, I actually got what the writers were thinking when I saw LF and Bolton coming head to head; there's some real potential there. But what actually went on film was a bit dissapointing.

Edited April 27, 2015 by James Arryn

[Sub_Zero94]

Hey all I'm back! I'm here to tell you why this weeks episode was terrible.

-So D&D have officially decided Jaqern's far more intriguing and interesting Oldtown story scheme was "too confusing" (much like LSH) and thus cut. Instead we get this banal training arc mentor crap. Grand Maester conspiracy? Faceless men and Valyria? The truth about the Hightowers? Salleras? WHO CARES, LEL MAISIE WILLIAMS SAID CUNT XD!

-Adult Tommen is annoying and shit. Why the hell did D&D up-age him again? It doesn't even make any sense. Like 2 seasons ago he was a little kid sitting in Cersei's lap. I get D&D dumb shit down and expect the audience to just accept it, but do they really expect us to forget this?

-More useless sex shit. Nobody cares D&D. You're not edgy. You're just wasting time. I mean you cut all these characters and plots yet somehow find the time to shove in the same rehashed sex scenes every damn episode. OMG BEWBS. Fuck off with your crap.

-D&D have of course dumbed down the Margy-Cersei cold war into the most ridiculous petty schoolyard girl antics.

-Inserting Sansa into the Winterfell arc? FUCK YOU D&D YOU SHITS FOR BRAINS. This is the biggest fuckup yet. It makes no goddamn sense and just destroys the best storyline from D&D. Nevermind it makes LF the stupidest guy in Westeros. I bet they're gonna add some sansa "strong independent wmyz dark sansa outsmarts roose bolton" bullshit. And I also like how in the books LF is ultra-careful to avoid anybody knowing sansa is still alive. Yet in the show he parades her around all day and casually eats with her at taverns and everybody seems to just be aware of who she is

-"The North Remembers". OOOOO AAAAA SO BADASS THOUGHT D&D. This will surely satisfy the fans, right?! Wrong. Do they think randomly shoehorning in this quote while removing the character who most famously says it and the situation it's most famously said in will compensate for that? No. Fuck off D&D.

-AND HOW DOES SANSA EVEN KNOW ROOSE KILLED ROBB. HOW DOES EVERYBODY IN THE FUCKING WORLD KNOW THIS. D&D proving once again they think Westeros is the size of Disneyland.

-Speaking of how this Sansa Winterfell crap makes no sense. It makes absolutely no sense sansa would agree to marry ramsay. she just changes her mind and decides for no reason despite being against it seconds before. Moreover why the hell is everybody 100% okay with Sansa being alive? Why would Bolton or LF (both Lannister allies) both openly fuck around with Sansa like this when she's wanted for the death of Joffrey? And don't try to rationalize this huge goddamn plothole with D&D's weak excuse of a justification, that was total bullshit and answered NOTHING. Baelish would never openly confront the Lannisters like this (he's actually SUBTLE in the books) and Bolton still has and needs Frey/Lannister support despite the death of Tywin. Margy doesn't "Adore" Sansa either. Bullshit weak excuse for bullshit weak plot/10.

-Why was Moat Caillin even in this weeks episode? Do D&D think it's the only place in the North? besides Winterfell?

-D&D suggesting Brienne > Hound again. Oh fuck off.

-Then after trying to elevate Brienne, they do this self-hating "i'm so ugly" emo bullshit. Book Brienne would never get this shallow and banal. D&D seem desperate to prop up women characters but like any true SJW they ultimately have them lose any kind of complexity.

-THIS FUCKING KID IN THE NIGHT'S WATCH WON'T GO AWAY. GO AWAY AND DIE.

-Thorne is Eastwatch Commander? Does Cotter Pyke just not exist anymore even though he is mentioned in past seasons? Do D&D just constantly pretend the audience is stupid enough to forget people every goddamn episode?

-Turning Waif into some kind of school bully with this beating shit. House of Black and White isn't a fucking boarding school you pieces of shit.

-Thorne was never a ranger but now he's a gr8 ranger!!!!!

-No fetch me a block of course. Cuz D&D just gotta take away every iconic quote just to fuck with us.

-Fucked up the general execution scene. They make Jon seem far too smug and happy about the whole thing. They take away all of his conflict and reasoning over it, they take away the fact he gives Janos a night to think over his insubordination, they take away him changing his method of execution (thus making everyone thinking he backed down, which added great tension to the scene). They have Janos go on some sort of "I was always afraid" diatribe as if D&D think they're geniuses for trying to flesh out the character. Stannis nod can't save it.

-Oh wow more sex scenes D&D. Soooo edgy.

-Oh look it's ISIS, or should we say the show Sparrows because D&D are inserting their fedora atheist shit into a medieval setting. in the books the sparrows are against this high septon because he was appointed by Tyrion, who is reviled by the common folks and seen as corrupt. Not because of this "sinner" bullcrap. Stfu with demonizing the faith and the sparrows, D&D. Not to mention I'm sure they're going to not even have him killed by Cersei over her Tyrion paranoia, because the show is so hell-bent on whitewashing cersei for some reason.

-High Sparrow smiling and joking and shit. No. He's above such petty pleasantries. He is faith and pious incarnate.

-Making Ramsay act like a nice cool guy around people. Fuck off D&D. He's already a renowned monster. First you give him that shitty girlfriend, now you do this. Stop destroying the character.

-"Who supports me now that Tywin is dead" asks show-Roose. Well D&D, how about the Lannisters and Freys? Why wouldn't they? Fucking stupid show.

-Volantis Tyrion is such a shit in this show. Snarky whiny bitch who plays with a door, loses all the insanity/near-evil attitudes and actions Tyrion has at this point in the books. No roughing up a prostitute (INSTEAD HE'S NICE TO HER) and no talking about raping and murdering Cersei. Instead more LEL FUNNY JOKES XD! Because we can't have any kind of complexity or negativity with fan favorite Peter Dinklage! Fuck you and fuck your character whitewashing, D&D. You even have him REFUSE A WHORE out of grief. You do not understand this character at all, clearly. I mean I guess I get why they cut Penny when D&D have made her completely unnecessary by making Tyrion so fucking one dimensional.

-Speaking of character assassination, fucking Varys man. They're wrecking him with this Tyrion bro roadtrip comedy bullcrap. He's THE SPIDER. He's sinister master planner tier. He has no friends in King's Landing. He's above this pleb bullcrap. Him and Illyrio have men for this kind of shit with Tyrion in the books because they're not retards in the books. We can expect Varys' best moment from ADWD to of course be removed, for this comedy bullshit. Not to mention they're making him out to be completely inept.

This weeks ep earns 10/10 in character assassination for Tyrion, Varys, Littlefinger, and Roose. Bravo D&D!

Weekly reminder that the show has been shit since season 2 and the books are better. I'll be back next week!

:bowdown:

[Raksha 2014]

The stuff at the Wall was the strongest element, but again lacking any 'great' moments. I keep thinking all this middling stuff is setting up the explosions to come, but I'm starting to wonder if we're just on a new diet.

Nothing really bad (except maybe the KL/High Septon/Sparrow stuff that came off pretty juvenile) but nothing that really grabbed me, again. The Stannis/Jon chemistry was again the high point. Generally the floor is being raised but the roof is somewhat lowering.

Also Varys acted very unVarys.

I definitely liked the Stannis/Jon interaction; they actually portrayed Stannis in a positive way. And thank the Seven, they've remembered that book-Brienne was a kind-hearted person.

I thought Sophie Turner's performance was quite good, and Kit Harrington is much more watchable when he's not being browbeaten by Wildlings (sorry, but I think he has more chemistry with Stannis than he ever did with Ygritte, though not in a sexual way).

[TheStarryOne]

- I also loved Theon's reactions to Sansa and to Winterfell in general.

Oh crap! I forgot that they knew each other. Theon really has changed.

[Guest]

Sansa in Winterfell just makes no sense...what was the point of taking her to the Vale? Why die her hair? Do the Boltons think just by marrying Sansa to Ramsay all will be okay?> Everyone knows about Ramsay..theyll want to free her more the support her and the Boltons

When Sansa started over to the Vale Tywin was still alive. Initially the Lannisters were still players, LF may not have known for a while that Tywin was dead. However now that he knows, he had 3 choices - ally with Stannis, stay in the Erie, or ally with the Boltons. I doubt Stannis would have had him.

I like how when Jon announced they needed a new latrine captain, Thorne was totally bracing himself like he thought Jon was going to make him do it.

I also find it believable about LF not knowing about Ramsay. In the books, the northmen didn't really know about him either until the scandal with Lady Hornwood and there was no Lady Hornwood in the show.

I loved that bit with Thorne too, I thought that was a great touch.

the problem with them aging up Tommen and sexing with Marg is that it removes the critical part of Cercei's and the High Sparrow's story-charging Marg with adultery. Gonna be a lot less easy to prove she is not a virgin now that she is not a virgin.

I actually was confused by that too. I mean the argument now would be "She's not a virgin!" "Um, duh?" Maybe since they hinted at a baby the story will switch to Cersei ironically claiming that Tommen is not the new baby's father when Margery conceives.

Edited April 27, 2015 by BurningCandle

[Ser Creighton]

I still can't believe that TV-Littlefinger would be stupid enough to deliberately hand over his prize pawn to the hands of her mother and brother's killer on a silver platter and not have anyone in place already to at least look out for her. It's a good thing that Brienne and Pod are riding to her rescue. At least Pod might be able to get into Winterfell unobtrusively; Brienne not so much.

I can't really blame Sansa for agreeing to Littlefinger's plan; he's her only protector and hope at this moment (right where he wants her). She has nowhere else to go. Maybe she thinks she can salvage the Stark line if not the Stark name, or at least that the Boltons won't kill her anytime soon. (which, if they're wise, they would not)

Well I hope there is more to it, there may be, I don't think anyone wants to be in bed with the Boltons. But a little more info would of been nice. It was a nice emotional speech, that lacked intellectual depth. That does not mean more depth will be added, but there is something I know from th trailers that will happen that has me questioning this plan. If you know where LF is going t go and this episode had a hint of that from Cersei, then who is protecting Sansa?

An amazing response. Thank you

ETA: Rock - I'm not seeing your review. We wants it.

No worries, it's my own fault, it came off wrong when I said "why is it a topic." I was not irritated with fans, just the show. I still hope the Winterfell arc will have something to offer. I hope the show still has something to offer, but I am pretty annoyed with it at this point. You know the Aegon plot line was cut and it's like why is Dorne even on this season without the Aegon and Dany tie in plots? Well sort of on this season, about 90 seconds of it. I heard the fan stuff about Tryst being Aegon but how is even close to Kit and Emilia' age? I also read that the casting director hired that kid because he felt romantic and she liked his music.

Anyway have a good night sorry for the misunderrstanding.

[Mistress of Lemon Cakes]

I liked all the House of Black and White stuff. Seeing Volontis was cool too.

I still have no interest whatsoever in the King's Landing plot. I was very much looking forward to my cray-cray, raging Cersei.

Annnnddddd ... it's finally out in the open with Sansa and Winterfell. I do have to admit to kind of looking forward to a Sansa/Theon reunion if only because I know Sophie and Alfie will kill it together. She'll probably learn about her brothers from him too.

For anyone who is interested, EW Online posted an article/interview with D&D regarding the changes to Sansa's plot. I can't copy/paste on these forums for whatever reason, but it's on their website now. The most interesting thing I took from it was a comment about how things that happen to certain characters in the books won't necessarily happen to Sansa and that book readers won't necessarily know where her arc is going even though they think they might.

Only time will tell in the end.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Maybe Sansa would get rescued, and the Rooses would keep it a secret and substitute in a fArya/Sansa to get back to the book's story line.

If they were going to do that, there would have been no reason for the Sansa engagement.

And as others have said, LF should definitely know about Ramsey and he should have warned Sansa about it.

[The Bear]

That is a reference to Ceasere de Borgia, the Duke of Valentino who reputedly went six times on his wedding night and was awarded a badge or something for his gallantry by the mother in law.

I didn't think the book made any sense on that one. It was confused. This is a lot better.

Yep, and exactly the sort of thing a book learned Tyrion would know.

Oh I think she will go an a hunt with him...

I thought it a pretty clever way to introduce the guy and show he is a hypocrite and show some naked flesh.

Tyrion/Varys roadtrip is better than JonCon, Aegon and company? Okay, to each their own. Personally I really enjoy that storyline and the slave storyline.

[sb.69]

If they were going to do that, there would have been no reason for the Sansa engagement.

And as others have said, LF should definitely know about Ramsey and he should have warned Sansa about it.

If she went through with the engagement, then she would officially be the returned Stark of the North/Winterfell when the Boltons are gone?

There is no way Sansa would go through with it if LF warned her about Ramsey. Sansa doesn't even know that she's been sold until they are almost there.

[El Guapo]

the problem with them aging up Tommen and sexing with Marg is that it removes the critical part of Cercei's and the High Sparrow's story-charging Marg with adultery. Gonna be a lot less easy to prove she is not a virgin now that she is not a virgin.

That is probably we are not going to get that story and instead it is going to be Loras that the High Sparrow goes after in the show.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I like how when Jon announced they needed a new latrine captain, Thorne was totally bracing himself like he thought Jon was going to make him do it.

I also find it believable about LF not knowing about Ramsay. In the books, the northmen didn't really know about him either until the scandal with Lady Hornwood and there was no Lady Hornwood in the show.

Hahaha i did like the latrine captain thing tbh..

the problem with them aging up Tommen and sexing with Marg is that it removes the critical part of Cercei's and the High Sparrow's story-charging Marg with adultery. Gonna be a lot less easy to prove she is not a virgin now that she is not a virgin.

And now im terrified about what they are going to replace this with. *looks worryingly at Loras*

[Lord Damian]

Does anyone else get the impression that D & D are a couple of perverts? Seriously, I think many of the actors and especially actresses must be annoyed with some of the shit that they have to do to get a paycheck on this show but really cannot say too much since it would be bitting the hand that feeds them.

[sb.69]

Does anyone else get the impression that D & D are a couple of perverts? Seriously, I think many of the actors and especially actresses must be annoyed with some of the shit that they have to do to get a paycheck on this show but really cannot say too much since it would be bitting the hand that feeds them.

I don't really think the nudity in the show is that excessive...

[Florina Laufeyson]

If anything, some of the nudity has been toned down.

[lostinwesteros]

On second viewing I connected Jaqen's telling Arya, "There is only one god" with Syrio Forel, First Sword of Bravos. Didn't he continually tell Arya that there was only one god, the god of death, then ask, "And what do we say to Death?" "Not today."

Somebody in a post several pages back said that since Maester Aemon is ill, perhaps he won't make the journey with Sam and Gilly, and that if this is the case, maybe the "Egg, I dreamed I was old" line would be said to Jon. I'd be fine with this, too, I just want that line included, please, please D & D!

[Raksha 2014]

When Sansa started over to the Vale Tywin was still alive. Initially the Lannisters were still players, LF may not have known for a while that Tywin was dead. However now that he knows, he had 3 choices - ally with Stannis, stay in the Erie, or ally with the Boltons. I doubt Stannis would have had him.

I loved that bit with Thorne too, I thought that was a great touch.

I actually was confused by that too. I mean the argument now would be "She's not a virgin!" "Um, duh?" Maybe since they hinted at a baby the story will switch to Cersei ironically claiming that Tommen is not the new baby's father when Margery conceives.

Um, who is ruling the Seven Kingdoms? Is Tommen of age? Is there a Regent? If there isn't a Regent, is Tommen actually king? I can't remember anyone referring to Cersei as Queen Regent.

I thought that there were rules against putting actors below the age of 18 in sexual scenes. Dean-Charles Chapman, who plays Tommen, won't be 18 until September.

TV-Margaery is being smart. She's in her mid to late twenties married to a king who is what, 14? In 10 years, he will be in his prime and she'll be 36 or whatever. She is wise to try to enthrall and influence him now, get him in the habit of seeking her advice, not to mention having sex with her so she can give him an heir.

I don't remember the High Sparrow in the book being such a friendly person. But maybe he does exert enough charm to help Cersei dig her own grave by trusting him.