[Book Spoilers] EP503 Discussion

[ummester]

"I'm actually not bashing the books. I am pointing out that the books are just as contrived as the show."

Just a thought on contrivance; six assassins make six failed attempts on a target. Then... after all that, later that evening one of the assassins happens to run into the target at a deli during an unscheduled stop and shoots the target dead... sparking WWI. Real life is full of weird coincidences... In fiction coincidence is too often seen as contrivances.

Well, if that's the case, anything goes, suspension of disbelief doesn't matter and Troll 2 had remarkably good dialogue and acting. Here is a scene from Troll 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyophYBP_w4

[Philpenn]

Had anyone else been pronouncing "Cerwyn" differently in their head this whole time? I've always read it as "Ser-win", but apparently (according to Ramsay), it's pronounced "Ker-win." Or I might just have noticed something stupid that no one else dwelt on.

Same. Always said ser in my head. Thank you Ramsay for the lesson.

[nara]

Have you ever had these same problems with Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet due to the protagonists' age?

Why put 21st century western social contraints and sensibilities on a Medeival fantasy world?

I believe Ser Muradin’s post was less about a teenager having sex and more about D&D’s use of a classic soap opera ploy of rapidly aging up a character so that you can include more mature storylines. It’s frankly a little lazy IMHO.

However, Natalie Dormer has mentioned in interviews that there was a scene in last season that she was uncomfortable doing because Tommen’s character was approx 13 at the time, and they ended up changing that scene. I’m assuming it’s the scene when she sneaks into Tommen’s bed room and presumably she was supposed to engage in some sort of sex act with him. I’m glad they didn’t end up showing that, but it would have made the transition from sweet, innocent (love my kittens) Tommen to “I want to have sex all the time” Tommen less jarring.

Also, if Tommen was 13 last season, it appears they didn’t rapidly age him up much because Show-Tommen was 8 in the first season. However, if Tommen is only 13, then how is he ruling Westeros in his own right and without a regent?

This whole ambiguous age thing is kinda annoying, but maybe also related to fact that actors age faster than characters.

[hallam]

Is there a way to block people on this forum?

I am finding the whining about LF's motives to be idiotic and stupid. LF is obviously up to something devious. If you could figure it out it wouldn't be LF. Complaining because you can't predict what LF is up to is so stupid it must hurt. The whole point of LF is he is unpredictable.

Complaining that his Winterfell scheme seems to be too clever by half is stunningly idiotic. All LF's plots have been overly complex and ultimately self defeating.

LF is Dick Cheney, a man whose opinion of his own intellect and capabilities greatly overestimates his capabilities. At this point LF has invaded Iraq and is about to attempt to secure his grasp by making an alliance with Muammir Gadaffi, one of those moves that is so clever it is stupid. And yes, Cheney actually did just that, and Gadaffi's crimes were pretty similar to those of Roose Bolton. Remember how he ended up.

Up till now, LF has been able to rise rapidly because people underestimate him. But now he is lord of the Vale and Harrenhall, Ramsay Bolton recognizes him as a duplicitous cunning snake.

LF's next move is to eliminate Cersei by betraying her to the high sparrow. He has to go down to KL anyway to get the annulment from the High Septon. With Cersei out of the way, LF becomes hand of the king and regent. There is nobody left. In that role, LF needs the north quiet so he marries Sansa to Bolton and Tommen to Shireen ending the civil war. Tommen gives up the throne to Stanis but becomes his heir.

LF's move makes perfect sense to someone like LF.

For LF's plot arc to make sense, he has to rise to hand of the king at least. And then he will find that governing is much harder than rising.

[nara]

Had anyone else been pronouncing "Cerwyn" differently in their head this whole time? I've always read it as "Ser-win", but apparently (according to Ramsay), it's pronounced "Ker-win." Or I might just have noticed something stupid that no one else dwelt on.

I noticed the same thing. However, they do tend to pronounce names inconsistently in the show (e.g., Tyrells are pronounced 2 different ways in the same conversation in Season 3). Also, when GRRM pronounces Cersei, it sounds more like Ser-Say to me and they all say Ser-See on the show. So GRRM's pronunciation may be different in Cerwyn's case too...

[Weeping Sore]

...and then the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over-the-top KL whorehouse scene, the imbalance feels "worse" than ever.

Did it cross anybody's mind that the High Septon could just as well have been gay and have male representatives of the Seven on full display? The disgusted response of the Sparrows would then dovetail with realistic homophobia, and the scene would have been more noteworthy, rather than "There you go again, Game of Thrones".

That said, I thought it was a pretty inventive way to throw in an over-the-top smut scene while reminding the audience of the seven Andal Gods. Golf clap.

[The Lizard King]

For those keeping score at home, StepStark has used the word "stupid" no less than twenty-four (24) times over the last six pages. He's also accused two people of not understanding the "concept of possession."

I'll keep you guys abreast of these growing statistics, if for no other reason than all the calories I'll burn.

:lol:

[The Eunuch]

Why did they do that with Tommen? Why not keep him as the 8 year old kid and suddenly turn him into his brothers age?

That really hurt this episode. He aged 5 or 6 years, while everyone else is the same...

Are you serious? Do you really think that he's the only one to age?

Bran

Sansa

Arya

Tommen won't stay a kid forever while the others grow up... That's consistency.

[Jon Flow]

Well, if that's the case, anything goes, suspension of disbelief doesn't matter and Troll 2 had remarkably good dialogue and acting. Here is a scene from Troll 2:

"Stop peeing on my hospitality!"

[Deadwood]

Is there a way to block people on this forum?

Yes, go to your username top right, then manage ignore prefs.

It's my most used profile tool in this forum. ;)

[Stonehearted Snake]

I noticed the same thing. However, they do tend to pronounce names inconsistently in the show (e.g., Tyrells are pronounced 2 different ways in the same conversation in Season 3). Also, when GRRM pronounces Cersei, it sounds more like Ser-Say to me and they all say Ser-See on the show. So GRRM's pronunciation may be different in Cerwyn's case too...

Loras pronounces it "teerell" in the bedroom scene with Renly after his bout with Brienne, while usually it is pronounced "TIE-rell." It jars me every time I hear it!

Also I've heard D&D pronounce Tommen as "TOE-menn" but it always sounds to me like the characters are saying "TAH-menn."

Edited May 1, 2015 by Stonehearted Snake

[Philpenn]

One of the producers says Toe-Man for Tommen. Erks me big time.

Edit - too late.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Philpenn

[Stonehearted Snake]

One of the producers says Toe-Man for Tommen. Erks me big time.

Edit - too late.

Right?? It irks me too! GRRM says names differently than the show but that doesn't bother me, these are names he has been pronouncing in his head for 20 years. And he's said to fans there's not a correct way really. But D&D as TV producers had to actually make decisions about pronounciations to tell the actors. I wondered if it was a British vs. American English thing but I don't think we hear other American English speakers (like in BTS stuff) pronounce it Toe-menn.

[Deadwood]

It's life. Names get pronounced differently, even by the name person depending on whom they are speaking to.

I like it, just as I liked what sounded like Welsh accents in Volantis.

[dielsis]

I like the pronunciation stuff, it's not really something you can convey through text and it adds some layers to the vocal development of various regions. In my story, I get around it by having a character with an accented letter and then one character corrects another's pronunciation (and then gets made fun of for caring about it).

It's always interesting to see how people pronounce our made up names. :)

Edited May 1, 2015 by MVC

[nara]

In real life, names do get pronounced differently by people. But in a TV show where it's hard enough to keep track of people and places, I feel like taking an hour to pronounce all new names,recording it, sharing it with the cast and crew, and asking people to be ask consistent as possible would be time we'll spent. It doesn't have to match GRRM necessarily, it just has to be consistent.

[Philpenn]

Gets me when I watch the inside the episode jawns at the end. Goes from a clip of the show where they say Tommen, to the producer saying Toe-Man. Back and forth, all within 30 seconds. Not the end of the world, just odd.

[Lovely Lyanna]

In real life, names do get pronounced differently by people. But in a TV show where it's hard enough to keep track of people and places, I feel like taking an hour to pronounce all new names,recording it, sharing it with the cast and crew, and asking people to be ask consistent as possible would be time we'll spent. It doesn't have to match GRRM necessarily, it just has to be consistent.

LOL How about your own user name of Nara. Now is that pronounced like Naira, or is it like Nora or is it Naura like Laura or is it Nara like Lara in Dr. Zhavigo? Now of course I have the Narwhal song song stuck in my head.

Nara Nara living in the ocean

Causing a commotion

Cause you are so awesome

Now you have your own theme song like Stannis does.

[nara]

LOL How about your own user name of Nara. Now is that pronounced like Naira, or is it like Nora or is it Naura like Laura or is it Nara like Lara in Dr. Zhavigo? Now of course I have the Narwhal song song stuck in my head.

Nara Nara living in the ocean

Causing a commotion

Cause you are so awesome

Now you have your own theme song like Stannis does.

I am thrilled to be in the company of Stannis, the rightful king of the 7 Kingdoms.

It's like Lara from Dr. Zhivago. And thanks for the song. Would love to hear you sing it! Maybe a YouTube video? ;)

[Cubarey]

In real life, names do get pronounced differently by people. But in a TV show where it's hard enough to keep track of people and places, I feel like taking an hour to pronounce all new names,recording it, sharing it with the cast and crew, and asking people to be ask consistent as possible would be time we'll spent. It doesn't have to match GRRM necessarily, it just has to be consistent.

I agree to the extent that people who speak the same language are pronouncing a name common in that language differently. Thus two Westori pronouncing a Westori name differently is inexcusable. While Two Westori pronouncing a Bravosi name differently makes some sense.