Lovely Lyanna Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 then when all seems lost and on the eve of Ramsay's wedding to Sansa, Sweetrobin single handedly storms the castle... Kicking ass, taking names, and sucking on some titties... (cuz you know he can't completely change.) :laugh: LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies are coming Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I'd like to quote, but I can't either quote nor copy and paste. Someone said Sansa is the most valuable asset LF has or something like that. She may very well be... as long as he uses her. Hidden, she's worth nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 What powerful house? Boltons are nowhere near powerful house and Roose says exactly that when hes talking to Ramsay. He says that they are lost without allies which practically means they are lost without Ramsay marrying Sansa. It is not comparable to Lannister/Tyrell situation at all. And also I didn't say that Littlefinger is in same position as Tywin was but that Tywin's reaction shows how much valuable Sansa is. You don't give away someone so valuable. But also Littlefinger is not Mace Tyrell either because Mace will always be Margaery's father even when she is married but Littlefinger's hold over Sansa is pretty much depending on his physical control over her which is actually similar to Tywin's hold over Sansa when she was their prisoner. Man who went all that trouble to take Sansa away from Lannisters would know better than to give her away to someone else and especially to someone who is in desperate position like Boltons are. I disagree...Littlefinger does not need to physically be with Sansa to have influence over her. He's been molding her for several years now, helping her out in her times of need. She's had the upper hand on LF and instead of giving him up, she helped him out. The Boltons may fall...but Sansa Stark won't. No one will kill her because, as you stated yourself- she is too valuable. To everyone. She's the key to the North right now, and everyone will want her. Which is why this is a smart move on LF's part. If the Boltons win out, they owe him a debt. If they lose out, he's still influential over Sansa. It's win-win, either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 What powerful house? Boltons are nowhere near powerful house and Roose says exactly that when hes talking to Ramsay. He says that they are lost without allies which practically means they are lost without Ramsay marrying Sansa. It is not comparable to Lannister/Tyrell situation at all. And also I didn't say that Littlefinger is in same position as Tywin was but that Tywin's reaction shows how much valuable Sansa is. You don't give away someone so valuable. But also Littlefinger is not Mace Tyrell either because Mace will always be Margaery's father even when she is married but Littlefinger's hold over Sansa is pretty much depending on his physical control over her which is actually similar to Tywin's hold over Sansa when she was their prisoner. Man who went all that trouble to take Sansa away from Lannisters would know better than to give her away to someone else and especially to someone who is in desperate position like Boltons are. We don't know the full extent of Littlefinger's plan, but if it includes a continued union with the Boltons, Roose Bolton is Warden of the North and by marrying his son to Sansa Stark, he could make the rest of the North fall in line. This is in line with the book with the fArya plot. If he plans on betraying Roose and taking the North for himself, he has planted a Stark in Winterfell for the North to rally around. I don't see why Littlefinger giving Sansa to Roose Bolton is such a mistake. Their alliance has already been set and there's no reason for Roose to betray him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I disagree...Littlefinger does not need to physically be with Sansa to have influence over her. He's been molding her for several years now, helping her out in her times of need. She's had the upper hand on LF and instead of giving him up, she helped him out.The Boltons may fall...but Sansa Stark won't. No one will kill her because, as you stated yourself- she is too valuable. To everyone. She's the key to the North right now, and everyone will want her. Which is why this is a smart move on LF's part. If the Boltons win out, they owe him a debt. If they lose out, he's still influential over Sansa. It's win-win, either way.What several years when he took her only after Joff's death which happened several months ago at most? and is she is valuable as you agree than why the hell did he gave her away? So she can belong to someone else? If Boltons fall and someone like Stannis takes her how can that help Littlefinger? It is ridiculous to think it will because it won't. So no it really isn't win-win but loose-loose because if Boltons prevail then Sansa remains Ramsay's wife and if Boltons fall she will be taken by someone who defeated Boltons. That is what happens when you give away someone as valuable as Sansa. And having Sansa by your side is much preferable to having some influence over her while she's far away or having Boltons owe you a debt. What Littlefinger did doesn't make any sense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 We don't know the full extent of Littlefinger's plan, but if it includes a continued union with the Boltons, Roose Bolton is Warden of the North and by marrying his son to Sansa Stark, he could make the rest of the North fall in line. This is in line with the book with the fArya plot. If he plans on betraying Roose and taking the North for himself, he has planted a Stark in Winterfell for the North to rally around. I don't see why Littlefinger giving Sansa to Roose Bolton is such a mistake. Their alliance has already been set and there's no reason for Roose to betray him. But book plot with fake Arya is absolutely different. Littlefinger gave them fake Arya because he has real Sansa. He would never give them real Sansa because nobody with any brain would. And you have to make up your mind because if he is making Boltons stronger then he makes it harder for himself to turn the north against Boltons some day. And not to mention that nothing is set with Roose Bolton who is a man who killed his king as the Red Wedding. Who could ever trust that man again? It is not a mistake but a colossal stupidity for which I have no words. Characters in cartoons aren't as stupid as this Littlefinger of the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One And Only Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 People are making a lot of assumptions without knowing all of the facts. What is the point of getting all worried or mad about a plot line that isn't even complete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 People are making a lot of assumptions without knowing all of the facts. What is the point of getting all worried or mad about a plot line that isn't even complete? What more facts do we need to realize how incredibly stupid is Littlefinger in the show for giving away Sansa to Boltons? How can that be anything except ridiculously stupid really? Some contrived development may save Sansa eventually but even then Littlefinger's decision will still be nonsensical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb.69 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 But book plot with fake Arya is absolutely different. Littlefinger gave them fake Arya because he has real Sansa. He would never give them real Sansa because nobody with any brain would. And you have to make up your mind because if he is making Boltons stronger then he makes it harder for himself to turn the north against Boltons some day. And not to mention that nothing is set with Roose Bolton who is a man who killed his king as the Red Wedding. Who could ever trust that man again? It is not a mistake but a colossal stupidity for which I have no words. Characters in cartoons aren't as stupid as this Littlefinger of the show. Trust that man AGAIN? If you trust him now, then sorry, there is no hope for you already. Unless, you are see LF like Snape?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One And Only Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 What more facts do we need to realize how incredibly stupid is Littlefinger in the show for giving away Sansa to Boltons? How can that be anything except ridiculously stupid really? Some contrived development may save Sansa eventually but even then Littlefinger's decision will still be nonsensical. Like Stannis saving the day for The Watch at the last second. Sure, contrived stuff like that doesn't happen in the books. Or Tywin saving the day right before Stannis breaches the wall of King's Landing. Or Bran and Jon being at the same location and not bumping into each other. The books has very contrived plot points. So far we don't know enough about the overall plan to know if what is going on makes total sense. Let it play out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Like Stannis saving the day for The Watch at the last second. Sure, contrived stuff like that doesn't happen in the books. Or Tywin saving the day right before Stannis breaches the wall of King's Landing. Or Bran and Jon being at the same location and not bumping into each other. The books has very contrived plot points. So far we don't know enough about the overall plan to know if what is going on makes total sense. Let it play out. Why don't you think about what you're writing for a second? Plans don't never include someone saving your ass in the last moment. If that is plan then it is a very weak plan. So don't mix apples and oranges by mixing plans with lucky incidents. Littlefinger's plan if he even has one is so stupid that Littlefinger can be saved only by some miracle. But I don't know what that miracle could be because all those other incidents you mentioned they aren't contrived. What is contrived is your description of them and what's funny is that in the rage and rave thread you are the one complaining about someone bashing the show and here you are bashing the books. For your information the books have very few contrived plot points and its even doubtful they are truly contrived even. But this with Littlefinger and Sansa and Ramsay is unbelievably stupid without any doubt at all just like many scenes in the show were in previous seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One And Only Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Why don't you think about what you're writing for a second? Plans don't never include someone saving your ass in the last moment. If that is plan then it is a very weak plan. So don't mix apples and oranges by mixing plans with lucky incidents. Littlefinger's plan if he even has one is so stupid that Littlefinger can be saved only by some miracle. But I don't know what that miracle could be because all those other incidents you mentioned they aren't contrived. What is contrived is your description of them and what's funny is that in the rage and rave thread you are the one complaining about someone bashing the show and here you are bashing the books. For your information the books have very few contrived plot points and its even doubtful they are truly contrived even. But this with Littlefinger and Sansa and Ramsay is unbelievably stupid without any doubt at all just like many scenes in the show were in previous seasons. So entire armies can sweep in an save the day at the last minute, but two groups in the same location with almost nobody else around can't find each other? I'm actually not bashing the books. I am pointing out that the books are just as contrived as the show. The only difference is that the contrived moments GRRM writes, people defend. When D&D write one, people complain it doesn't make sense. Both of them did it. Neither are worse then the other. The story of Sansa in Winterfell is perfectly fine. The only fault some people have, when it comes down to it, is that it wasn't written by GRRM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 So entire armies can sweep in an save the day at the last minute, but two groups in the same location with almost nobody else around can't find each other? I'm actually not bashing the books. I am pointing out that the books are just as contrived as the show. The only difference is that the contrived moments GRRM writes, people defend. When D&D write one, people complain it doesn't make sense. Both of them did it. Neither are worse then the other. The story of Sansa in Winterfell is perfectly fine. The only fault some people have, when it comes down to it, is that it wasn't written by GRRM. You can repeat as much times as you like but Sansa in Winterfell is the stupidest thing ever in that universe for sure. It is criticized because it is abnormally stupid and not because D&D wrote it. What you keep saying in defense of it only proves how incredibly ridiculous that plot is. And yes if you think the books are as contrived as the show then you are bashing the books because you are comparing great books to ridiculous show which is like nonsensical as it comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubarey Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Only going after Loras doesn't really do Cersie any good if it leaves Marg as Queen. I'm assuming we're going to get some Ann Bolyn type allegations with claims of incest between Marg and Loras. Which will be ironic when the incest claims backfire on Cersie. Allegations of Incest between Loras and Marg would be kind of ludicrous since Loras is going to be targeted for his homosexuality. You would not only have to swallow the irony of Cersi charging that Marg/Loras are involved in incest (presumably the Sparrow would of at least heard the allegations about Cersi and Jamie) but presume that Loras and Mrag were as "free thinking (or hedonist) as Oberyn, which I kind of think is a stretch. On a side note I disagree with those who say the Sparrow is power mad (comparing him to either to modern day religious figures or Middle Ages examples). He may be a religious fanactic and want to enforce the letter of the religious laws, that does not make him Power mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I keep coming back to the thought, why would LF trust Sansa out of his control. He betrayed her father, she knows he betrayed her father, he knows she knows he betrayed her father. It is absurd that LF would trust her out of his eye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 He betrayed her father, she knows he betrayed her father, he knows she knows he betrayed her father. No, she doesn't know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 No, she doesn't know that. 2nd !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 But book plot with fake Arya is absolutely different. Littlefinger gave them fake Arya because he has real Sansa. He would never give them real Sansa because nobody with any brain would. And you have to make up your mind because if he is making Boltons stronger then he makes it harder for himself to turn the north against Boltons some day. And not to mention that nothing is set with Roose Bolton who is a man who killed his king as the Red Wedding. Who could ever trust that man again? It is not a mistake but a colossal stupidity for which I have no words. Characters in cartoons aren't as stupid as this Littlefinger of the show. You keep saying that Littlefinger is stupid for leaving Sansa in Roose Bolton's hands, but I don't understand why. Yes, Sansa is a valuable piece in the game, and Littlefinger is using that piece to gain an allegiance with the North. He doesn't really lose anything, but he gains a great deal. Roose Bolton, though not entirely trustworthy, is an opportunist, which makes him easy to read. He won't betray Littlefinger unless he's given a better offer. Littlefinger is offering him a Stark which will solidify his rule in the North and is the only current ally Roose Bolton has. So I ask again, what reason would Bolton have to betray Littlefinger? As to the bolded, I already said I don't know how the storyline is going to go. I was only providing options that Littlefinger possesses to further his ambitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 how could she not know it, she lived in KL throughout all that happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 and if Sansa will eventually kill LF as theories would have wouldn't that be as a result of his betraying ned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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