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[Book Spoilers] EP503 Discussion


Ran
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I agree to the extent that people who speak the same language are pronouncing a name common in that language differently. Thus two Westori pronouncing a Westori name differently is inexcusable. While Two Westori pronouncing a Bravosi name differently makes some sense.

So do you have a problem with the fact that Oberyn and Ned had different accents? Westeros isn't a country, it's a continent. The North isn't a state, it's a country of it's own, and even within individual nations you have massive swings in dialect. There's germans who I simply can not speak with unless they know proper german as well as their local dialect, even without accounting for migration and the mixing of linguistic patterns.

I currently live in Chicago, and you'll find changes in pronunciation based on which neighborhood you are in.

So what y'all're suggestion would feel a lot less authentic and would get griped about as well.

Edited by cgf
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Well... If your Aidan Gillen then your pronunciation changes with every passing moment. (I love the actor but his accent is right out of a junior high production of Brigadoon.)


.... wait... Holy crap I want to see if anyone has ever done a Mashup of Brigadoon and the Frank Herbert Sci-Fi opus? Briga-dune....

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So do you have a problem with the fact that Oberyn and Ned had different accents? Westeros isn't a country, it's a continent. The North isn't a state, it's a country of it's own, and even within individual nations you have massive swings in dialect. There's germans who I simply can not speak with unless they know proper german as well as their local dialect, even without accounting for migration and the mixing of linguistic patterns.

I currently live in Chicago, and you'll find changes in pronunciation based on which neighborhood you are in.

So what y'all're suggestion would feel a lot less authentic and would get griped about as well.

Actually no, Westori is a country. It is arguably not a single nation (you could say that there are three nations that make up the country of Westori, The North, Dorne and the lands in-between. Similar to how the united Kingdom is made up of Scotland, Northern Ireland, England and Wales, Or how Spain can be viewed as a country made up of the different nations of the Basque, Galicians, Catalans and Castillians. In the case of Oberyn ad Ned slightly different pronounciations would be seen as normal, but between Ned and Roose Bolton or two people coming from the West and Riverlands the different pronounciations would seem out of place unless a plausible linguistic difference could be pointed to.

I am hispanic an am aware of the great difference in pronounciations among those who speak Spanish, but I can also point out to the different linguistic influences that led to these differences. Further the pronounciation of names tend to be quite consistent among hispanic subgroups. In either case that is quite different from people from the Riverlands pronouncing common Westori names differently or how even the Show runners can not consistently pronounce a name like Tommen's consistently. A certain amount of difference can be justified by different linguistic influences or social/economic strata but some of the inconsistencies in the show appear to be caused by a lack of interest in details.

Edited by Cubarey
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Well... If your Aidan Gillen then your pronunciation changes with every passing moment. (I love the actor but his accent is right out of a junior high production of Brigadoon.)

.... wait... Holy crap I want to see if anyone has ever done a Mashup of Brigadoon and the Frank Herbert Sci-Fi opus? Briga-dune....

I flipped out when I heard him talk with his real voice. Holy Shit ! Squikey like a vienna choirboy starting puberty.

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I flipped out when I heard him talk with his real voice. Holy Shit ! Squikey like a vienna choirboy starting puberty.

His IRL accent is strange. It's Irish but heavily American too, like he has been speaking English either in or around Americans for such a long time that the American accent wore off on him. But his accent on the show - whoa! It wasn't that bad in the first few seasons. It got weird in season 4 but seems to be a little more consistent this season. Or maybe I am just used to it...

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LF's next move is to eliminate Cersei by betraying her to the high sparrow. He has to go down to KL anyway to get the annulment from the High Septon. With Cersei out of the way, LF becomes hand of the king and regent. There is nobody left. In that role, LF needs the north quiet so he marries Sansa to Bolton and Tommen to Shireen ending the civil war. Tommen gives up the throne to Stanis but becomes his heir.

LF's move makes perfect sense to someone like LF.

For LF's plot arc to make sense, he has to rise to hand of the king at least.

u wot m8

If that's the average viewer's definition of "making sense" I guess D&D can get away with pretty much whatever.

Nobody left for regency? How about Kevan, Mace, goddamn even Pycelle has a better chance to be picked as Hand than LF. And yeah, LF would totally plan to put Stan on the throne because there's no chance that would end up badly for him. And it's not like the Tyrells would object.

Edited by Facebookless Man
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In the case of Oberyn ad Ned slightly different pronounciations would be seen as normal, but between Ned and Roose Bolton or two people coming from the West and Riverlands the different pronounciations would seem out of place unless a plausible linguistic difference could be pointed to.

I am hispanic an am aware of the great difference in pronounciations among those who speak Spanish, but I can also point out to the different linguistic influences that led to these differences. Further the pronounciation of names tend to be quite consistent among hispanic subgroups. In either case that is quite different from people from the Riverlands pronouncing common Westori names differently or how even the Show runners can not consistently pronounce a name like Tommen's consistently. A certain amount of difference can be justified by different linguistic influences or social/economic strata but some of the inconsistencies in the show appear to be caused by a lack of interest in details.

Because people in England all speak the same? ;) People pronounce things differently in different streets. 'Look' can be pronounced three different ways in the North West of England. It's all perfectly reasonable. England (for whatever reason) has so much variation that consistency in towns/families is not always there. The show in my eyes is quite realistic in this regard.

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Because people in England all speak the same? ;) People pronounce things differently in different streets. 'Look' can be pronounced three different ways in the North West of England. It's all perfectly reasonable. England (for whatever reason) has so much variation that consistency in towns/families is not always there. The show in my eyes is quite realistic in this regard.

100% true. Folks from different sides of the same street can pronounce names quite differently.

I still think though, for the sake of keeping all the ducks in a row, it makes sense from a showmaking perspective to have the names in this world pronounced with some sense of convention. Sometimes, in storytelling, too much realism is a less-than-good thing.

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Up till now, LF has been able to rise rapidly because people underestimate him. But now he is lord of the Vale and Harrenhall, Ramsay Bolton recognizes him as a duplicitous cunning snake.

LF's next move is to eliminate Cersei by betraying her to the high sparrow. He has to go down to KL anyway to get the annulment from the High Septon. With Cersei out of the way, LF becomes hand of the king and regent. There is nobody left. In that role, LF needs the north quiet so he marries Sansa to Bolton and Tommen to Shireen ending the civil war. Tommen gives up the throne to Stanis but becomes his heir.

LF's move makes perfect sense to someone like LF.

For LF's plot arc to make sense, he has to rise to hand of the king at least. And then he will find that governing is much harder than rising.

I don't think I agree that LF will be able to keep himself out of trouble with the sparrows, although he may be able to drag Cersei into it as well. What you suggest about him becoming hand is very interesting, however. Thanks for sharing.

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Because people in England all speak the same? ;) People pronounce things differently in different streets. 'Look' can be pronounced three different ways in the North West of England. It's all perfectly reasonable. England (for whatever reason) has so much variation that consistency in towns/families is not always there. The show in my eyes is quite realistic in this regard.

Sure and in parts of Havana things can be pronounced differently. Usually these differences can be explained by different linguistic differences or socio economic differences among the speakers. In the case of the show anmes are pronounced differently by persons within the same groups. Also as has been referred to by others this is a television show that has wide appeal but also has the largest cast of any TV show that I can think of. Seems to be it would not only reflect reality but rather common sense to have names pronounced the same way unless there is a logical reason to do otherwise.

I don't think I agree that LF will be able to keep himself out of trouble with the sparrows, although he may be able to drag Cersei into it as well. What you suggest about him becoming hand is very interesting, however. Thanks for sharing.

I do not think Cersei needs LF's help to gt in trouble with the Sparrow. We already have Lancel for that besides Cersei's own ability to overplay her hand. Now could LF's brothels be closed down, certainly. But going after him personally for being a brothel keeper would be pushing the Sparrow as a Fanatic a bit too much in my opinion.

That does not mean I agree that LF will succeed in any of his plans. Getting the Sparrow to annul Tyrian's and Sansa's marriage seems a stretch, why would the Sparrow annul the wedding of two people he likely things as traiters and Kingkillers? Second, There are still viable options in the show besides LF for the King's Hand, a Tyrell, Kevan Lannister for two would seem viable. Third, the Tyrrel are quite enmeshed in the power base in King's Landing. Even if Loras is persecuted Margery still remains Tommen's Queen and her father a member of the small council. Since the whole scheme of having Margery accused of not being a Virgin when she married Tommen seems to have been bypaseed by the consummation of her marriage to Tommen, how exactly does LF get rid of Margery so that he can even suggest a Tommen -Shareen marriage? Also all these machinations presuppose that everyone else (The Queen of Thorns and Millasandre for two) simply allow LF to usurp their power and influence without a battle. LF might get himself named the Hand of the King by playing Cersei against the Tyrells but this will not give him an open field in which to work his plans instead it will enhance his power while at the same time enmeshing him in political infighting that do not further his interests.

Lastly, Ramsey Bolton does not recognize the level of threat LF presents. Roose Bolton does, but Ramsey has repeatedly proven himself incapable of comprehending even the less subtle aspects of the Game of Thrones. Without Roose Ramsey lasts about as long as it takes the rest of the North to bend their knee to Stannis (likely with Sansa being in the first row of kneelers).

Edited by Cubarey
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Sure and in parts of Havana things can be pronounced differently. Usually these differences can be explained by different linguistic differences or socio economic differences among the speakers. In the case of the show anmes are pronounced differently by persons within the same groups. Also as has been referred to by others this is a television show that has wide appeal but also has the largest cast of any TV show that I can think of. Seems to be it would not only reflect reality but rather common sense to have names pronounced the same way unless there is a logical reason to do otherwise.

The programme has taken to use accents (for the most part as an identifier). The North of Westeros (for the most part) is the North of England. And there are quite a lot of Northern actors in the show, but as I said, even within the small part of North-West (Lancashire different from Yorkshire), even within the same town, there can be differences in the pronunciation of names. So it does reflect reality, from which common sense hails.

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Been kicking it around since catching him in Dorne in the trailer. Then when I heard the four different deaths jawn, I figured he was probably one. This pretty much sealed it for me. Will now be very surprised if it doesn't go down.


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How did Littlefinger find the crypts? I just don't like such a backstabbing creep down there with the Kings Of Winter



Is the City Watch cool with High Sparrows assaulting people in public and dicing people up in brothels ? Why would they let that happen?


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  • 2 weeks later...

Jon: I've heard it's best to keep your enemies close.


Stannis: Whoever told you that didn't have many enemies.



I wonder if this was referencing book Jon systematically sending all of his friends/allies away from him while keeping the people he doesn't trust close to him. That doesn't end well for Jon.





Is the City Watch cool with High Sparrows assaulting people in public and dicing people up in brothels ? Why would they let that happen?




Cersei probably told them to stay out of the way.


Edited by intheswamp
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