StepStark Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 It doesn't prove disrespect - you can't prove an emotional motivator without proof of intent, as emotional motivators are not factual elements. If D&D are on record as saying, 'we disrespect GRRMs writing and think we can do better' then it is proven, otherwise it is impossible to prove. You can't prove a murder was not manslaughter without proof that there was an intent to kill the victim, can you? Why do you suppose an emotional argument suddenly carries more weight when arguing aspects of an adaptation. LOL what emotional argument? I was talking about disrespect which in fact means lack of respect. Anybody with brain can see is there respect or not. If there is no respect then it is disrespect. If D&D are changing lines just because they can then it really shows they lack respect for the source material and that is all the proof you need. What they're saying is one thing but what they're doing is pretty obvious isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 LOL what emotional argument? I was talking about disrespect which in fact means lack of respect. Anybody with brain can see is there respect or not. If there is no respect then it is disrespect. If D&D are changing lines just because they can then it really shows they lack respect for the source material and that is all the proof you need. What they're saying is one thing but what they're doing is pretty obvious isn't it? No - I think that D&D entirely respect the first 3 novels and reasonably respect the 2nd 2, with concerns over how they would play on tele, so late in the story development. They may have, like some of us here, not have thought that fetching a block was too different to fetching a sword because the inference is the same. They may think that fetching a sword makes more immediate sense for a TV audience than a block and meant no disrespect to the source in changing it. Have you considered the opposite, that GRRM has become less interested in his own world since handing some of the reigns over to HBO and D&D are trying to hold the story together, best as they know how, whilst GRRM doesn't really care if it falls apart now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 No - I think that D&D entirely respect the first 3 novels and reasonably respect the 2nd 2, with concerns over how they would play on tele, so late in the story development. They may have, like some of us here, not have thought that fetching a block was too different to fetching a sword because the inference is the same. They may think that fetching a sword makes more immediate sense for a TV audience than a block and meant no disrespect to the source in changing it. Have you considered the opposite, that GRRM has become less interested in his own world since handing some of the reigns over to HBO and D&D are trying to hold the story together, best as they know how, whilst GRRM doesn't really care if it falls apart now? That is going to be my first thought as soon as I loose my mind. But anyway what you're saying is ridiculous really. More immediate sense? LOL! Are you aware how embarrassing it is to say something like that? This show is as poorly written as Prison Break and you're saying D&D have respect for the source material? They don't know the first thing about respect, they don't even understand the books properly, they even don't know what characters are POV and what aren't. They suck not only in writing but also in reading as well, but seeing show apologia all around it looks like they're in good company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) That is going to be my first thought as soon as I loose my mind. But anyway what you're saying is ridiculous really. More immediate sense? LOL! Are you aware how embarrassing it is to say something like that? This show is as poorly written as Prison Break and you're saying D&D have respect for the source material? They don't know the first thing about respect, they don't even understand the books properly, they even don't know what characters are POV and what aren't. They suck not only in writing but also in reading as well, but seeing show apologia all around it looks like they're in good company. You are extremely closed minded, aren't you? Perhaps the books will end brilliantly and the show will end shit, but perhaps the show will end great and the books will end shit. Most likely the show will end as originally planned by GRRM and the books wont end at all. But I am open to all possibility. If D&D truly sucked at writing, GoTs wouldn't be worth the money it is as a franchise. I have some friends who have only watched the show, never read the books, and they still think it is great - can't wait to find out what happens. I'm starting to regret reading the books before the show has finished now. Edited May 10, 2015 by ummester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 You are extremely closed minded, aren't you? Perhaps the books will end brilliantly and the show will end shit, but perhaps the show will end great and the books will end shit. Most likely the show will end as originally planned by GRRM and the books wont end at all. But I am open to all possibility. If D&D truly sucked at writing, GoTs wouldn't be worth the money it is as a franchise. I have some friends who have only watched the show, never read the books, and they still think it is great - can't wait to find out what happens. I'm starting to regret reading the books before the show has finished now. And you're saying I am closed minded? LOL! For your information, the show can't end great because it has been stupid and ridiculous for years now. I'm not blinded by D&D fanboyism like some of you obviously are. The show can satisfy only people like you that are regretting reading the books. If all you want is to know how it ends and if you don't know to enjoy all beauty of the road presented in the books, than this really isn't story for you. You came to ASOIAF by mistake and that mistake is the show. You know no story is for everyone and you happen to be someone for who ASOIAF wasn't made obviously. There is nothing wrong with that and in ideal world you would never consume ASOIAF because in ideal world ASOIAF wouldn't be adapted into this garbage of the show. And everybody would be better off except D&D of course but even they would live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) And you're saying I am closed minded? LOL! For your information, the show can't end great because it has been stupid and ridiculous for years now. I'm not blinded by D&D fanboyism like some of you obviously are. The show can satisfy only people like you that are regretting reading the books. If all you want is to know how it ends and if you don't know to enjoy all beauty of the road presented in the books, than this really isn't story for you. You came to ASOIAF by mistake and that mistake is the show. You know no story is for everyone and you happen to be someone for who ASOIAF wasn't made obviously. There is nothing wrong with that and in ideal world you would never consume ASOIAF because in ideal world ASOIAF wouldn't be adapted into this garbage of the show. And everybody would be better off except D&D of course but even they would live. GRRM approved D&D making the show from his books - so ultimately GRRM is to blame if the show is shit, because of his bad choice. It's unavoidable that GRRM has the lions share of accountability for the show being made, GRRM could have said no at the start and stopped it all. I can see good and bad things about the books and show. I can see that both maintain the potential to end well, though I can also see the chances of the books ending is less than the chances of the show ending. Deciding something cant end well before it has even ended is closed minded. Prejudgment is close mindedness. So you are ultimately more close minded for being a fanboy of one and a hater of the other. I don't hate the books, I just think they are no better than the show - there is a big difference between that and your bias. Edited May 10, 2015 by ummester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 GRRM approved D&D making the show from his books - so ultimately GRRM is to blame if the show is shit, because of his bad choice. It's unavoidable that GRRM has the lions share of accountability for the show being made, GRRM could have said no at the start and stopped it all. But, deciding something cant end great before it has even ended is closed minded. Prejudgment is close mindedness. I beg to differ. I don't see how this show ends in any other way than very badly indeed. I don't have to wait until the end, hell, I don't even have to wait until the end of the current series. To me, the show is built on a very shaky and unsound foundation, and that tells me all I need to know about how it will end. It's gone way past the point of no return, and is no longer salvageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I beg to differ. I don't see how this show ends in any other way than very badly indeed. I don't have to wait until the end, hell, I don't even have to wait until the end of the current series. To me, the show is built on a very shaky and unsound foundation, and that tells me all I need to know about how it will end. It's gone way past the point of no return, and is no longer salvageable. Well, you might have to choose between an ending you consider un-salvageable and no ending at all. Also, any foundation the show has comes from the books. Season 1 is very similar to book 1. And, as mentioned above, GRRM is accountable for choosing D&D to adapt his books. It's something I really don't understand about people who have given up on the show - why bother watching? Wait for the next book, if it ever gets finished - because the show will likely tarnish your enjoyment one way or the other. I think a true book fan wouldn't even bother with the show - they would just view it as a curio after they have finished the book series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 GRRM approved D&D making the show from his books - so ultimately GRRM is to blame if the show is shit, because of his bad choice. It's unavoidable that GRRM has the lions share of accountability for the show being made, GRRM could have said no at the start and stopped it all. I can see good and bad things about the books and show. I can see that both maintain the potential to end well, though I can also see the chances of the books ending is less than the chances of the show ending. Deciding something cant end well before it has even ended is closed minded. Prejudgment is close mindedness. So you are ultimately more close minded for being a fanboy of one and a hater of the other. I don't hate the books, I just think they are no better than the show - there is a big difference between that and your bias. LOL you got everything backwards. I am no biased but I'm simply able to realize that the show is utterly stupid. That is not bias that is common sense. You are the one who is biased because of your D&D fanboyism. Also it is not GRRM's fault that you are blind for stupidity of the show, that is only on you and you alone. Maybe you don't hate the books but on the other hand you obviously don't understand the books if you think that they are no better than the show. Just like I said those books are clearly not for you and you read them by mistake. In fact you're the one who should be mad at D&D because they are responsible for you wasting your time with those books. If they didn't make this stupid show you would never bother with this books and you would definitely be better off. Maybe you would read something you understand instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) LOL you got everything backwards. I am no biased but I'm simply able to realize that the show is utterly stupid. That is not bias that is common sense. You are the one who is biased because of your D&D fanboyism. Also it is not GRRM's fault that you are blind for stupidity of the show, that is only on you and you alone. Maybe you don't hate the books but on the other hand you obviously don't understand the books if you think that they are no better than the show. Just like I said those books are clearly not for you and you read them by mistake. In fact you're the one who should be mad at D&D because they are responsible for you wasting your time with those books. If they didn't make this stupid show you would never bother with this books and you would definitely be better off. Maybe you would read something you understand instead. Everything you have posted there is opinion - that you post it as some kind of fact proves you are close minded. You seriously don't get it - I can't help you if you don't reason like a grown up should :D Edited May 10, 2015 by ummester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 GRRM approved D&D making the show from his books - so ultimately GRRM is to blame if the show is shit, because of his bad choice. It's unavoidable that GRRM has the lions share of accountability for the show being made, GRRM could have said no at the start and stopped it all. I can see good and bad things about the books and show. I can see that both maintain the potential to end well, though I can also see the chances of the books ending is less than the chances of the show ending. Deciding something cant end well before it has even ended is closed minded. Prejudgment is close mindedness. So you are ultimately more close minded for being a fanboy of one and a hater of the other. I don't hate the books, I just think they are no better than the show - there is a big difference between that and your bias.I just forgot to add that ending of the show doesn't matter at all because anyone can end anything in the way D&D are doing it. It would be same if my 9 year old nephew "ended" the story. Believe me he is not a bit worse in storytelling than D&D so if you're interested he can end the story for you right now so you don't have to wait D&D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I just forgot to add that ending of the show doesn't matter at all because anyone can end anything in the way D&D are doing it. It would be same if my 9 year old nephew "ended" the story. Believe me he is not a bit worse in storytelling than D&D so if you're interested he can end the story for you right now so you don't have to wait D&D. Is he a bit better in grammar and reason than you, because that would help :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Everything you have posted there is opinion - that you post it as some kind of fact proves you are close minded. You seriously don't get it - I can't help you if you don't reason like a grown up should :D Of course that it is opinion. Opposite to you I do have opinion of my own and not borrowed from D&D. There is nothing grown up in being blind to stupidity of the show. There is nothing open minded in D&D fanboyism. You shouldn't fool yourself like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Is he a bit better in grammar and reason than you, because that would help :D Well English is my second language so if that is your best shot then fine. Now about reason he is much better than D&D and their fanboys which is most important here I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Of course that it is opinion. Opposite to you I do have opinion of my own and not borrowed from D&D. There is nothing grown up in being blind to stupidity of the show. There is nothing open minded in D&D fanboyism. You shouldn't fool yourself like that. I'm not blind to the stupidity of the show - the show has some poor elements, as do the books. Neither is perfect. Trying to pass an opinion as a fact is what makes you close minded, pretending that your opinion means anything to anyone but you is close minded. Serious question StepStark - why do you even watch the show? Edited May 10, 2015 by ummester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) DUP. Edited May 10, 2015 by ummester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I'm not blind to the stupidity of the show - the show has some poor elements, as do the books. Neither is perfect. Trying to pass an opinion as a fact is what makes you close minded, pretending that your opinion means anything to anyone but you is close minded. Oh boy this is brilliant. Yeah neither is perfect but what matters is that one is brilliant and other is ridiculous. And please don't think your crusade against opinions do you any good. As first I don't even know what does it mean that I state opinions as facts. As second, I don't care to who my opinions mean, all I care is that my opinions are logical and I'm afraid that is something you can't say for your "opinions". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Oh boy this is brilliant. Yeah neither is perfect but what matters is that one is brilliant and other is ridiculous. And please don't think your crusade against opinions do you any good. As first I don't even know what does it mean that I state opinions as facts. As second, I don't care to who my opinions mean, all I care is that my opinions are logical and I'm afraid that is something you can't say for your "opinions". Again, you are confusing your opinion with reason and logic. You didn't answer - why do you still bother watching the show? If you know it's so flawed, what is the point? You could ask me why I bother posting to you as a counterpoint - because I know this conversation is deeply flawed. My answer would be that in hope, however misguided, that you understand something. With me and you that could work - but that will never work with you and the show - so why bother watching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Again, you are confusing your opinion with reason and logic. You didn't answer - why do you still bother watching the show? If you know it's so flawed, what is the point? You could ask me why I bother posting to you as a counterpoint - because I know this conversation is deeply flawed. My answer would be that in hope, however misguided, that you understand something. With me and you that could work - but that will never work with you and the show - so why bother watching? I watch it just because of the source material. It is the same as Elio and Linda said in their last video when they said that it is still Martin's world and therefore it is hard to resist. But don't worry I will stop soon because the show is so ridiculous it is unbelievable. But you didn't answer my question about opinions and facts. What does it mean to pass opinions as facts? You keep repeating that but it doesn't mean anything as far as I can see. Oh and by the way I'm not confusing anything. I just clearly see that you are blind for D&D's stupidity but that is nothing new with you fanboys. Just because your "opinions" doesn't have any reason and logic in them it doesn't mean the rest of us should also get rid of reason and logic LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I watch it just because of the source material. It is the same as Elio and Linda said in their last video when they said that it is still Martin's world and therefore it is hard to resist. But don't worry I will stop soon because the show is so ridiculous it is unbelievable. But you didn't answer my question about opinions and facts. What does it mean to pass opinions as facts? You keep repeating that but it doesn't mean anything as far as I can see. Oh and by the way I'm not confusing anything. I just clearly see that you are blind for D&D's stupidity but that is nothing new with you fanboys. Just because your "opinions" doesn't have any reason and logic in them it doesn't mean the rest of us should also get rid of reason and logic LOL. You think your opinion that the books are far superior to the show is based in some kind of logic or is somehow factual - it isn't, it is just your opinion. There is no quantifiable way to prove if the books or show are better and thinking there is is flawed. Seems to be some kind of self control issues then, if you cant resist watching something you hate, or know is flawed. Martin sold the rights to the televised version of his world to HBO - it's not Martin's world now, it's HBOs. Martin created it, HBO owns it and can profit from it. Thinking it's still Martins world is your first logical mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.