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Tommen & Margaery Consummate Their Marriage, Does This Spoil the Margaery Accusations?


Nathaniel Stark

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If we're going to have a trial for Margo, we need Jonathan Rhys Meyers to guest star as one of the guys she slept with.

:drunk: Love it!!

Margery and Tommen fit perfectly into the Henry the VIII and Katherine of Aragon roles. Katherine was older and she was married to his older brother. Both Henry and Tommen have an interest in the church. Henry was destined for the church, but with the death of Prince Arthur, he ended up as king. In the scene, Tommen offered Margery pomegranate juice. Pomegranate was Katherine of Aragon's emblem or badge. It occurred to me that you could not have Henry without Cardinal Wolsey, but the High Sparrow could be Wolsey. Interestingly enough both Cardinal Wolsey on Wolf Hall and the High Sparrow are being played by the same actor. Katherine's virginity was called into question with the did she or didn't she question.

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Retha Warnicke speculated that Mark Smeaton and George Boleyn, Anne's brother, were lovers--and Mark Smeaton and George Boleyn are depicted as lovers in The Tudors--and others have speculated that Mark Smeaton was gay.

Yes, Warnicke put forth the theory that George Boleyn was gay, but it is discounted by historians. It has however been adopted freely into most fictional accounts of the Anne Boleyn story. It is simply a way to make a story from the 1500s more relevant to current times by adding the "gay" storyline. The real George Boleyn was very hardworking and made a name for himself after Henry the VII discarded George's sister Mary and before Henry's interest in Anne Boleyn. Most historians therefore view George's rise as being based on his own merit rather then simply on the King's interest in his sisters. The real George Boleyn was known as a bit of a scoundrel with the ladies and was said to have been a lover to many ladies both single and married in Henry's court.

The Tudors also made Will Compton and Thomas Tallis into a gay storyline with absolutely no evidence of them having even known each other. Comptom was over 20 years older than Tallis. Compton died in the late 1520's and Tallis did not even show up into Henry's court until the 1540s. Most of Tallis's career was spent making music for Henry's children and not Henry. Compton was married at least twice and had children with both wives. Tallis was also married and had something like 10 children. Why the Tudors made these two particular men a couple was beyond me considering they came from different time periods of Henry's life. It was done to create the obligatory gay storyline. We wouldn't want the facts to get in the way of good story.

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Can we consider this for a minute.



What can Marg get tried for right now on the show? Unless a new plot develops concerning adultery the marriage has been consummated she would have still been seen as virtuous.



Loras is the unvirtuous Marg on the show he is gay. Removing all other characters needed to make those accusations against Marg, which she went willingly to deny in the books. The same Characters backfired on Cersei. We did have a character in the show in season 3 who was suppose to spy on Marg but found nothing.



In the books Mrag used a potion from Pycelle that queen had found out about, when her spy found nothing, maybe that can happen again here on the show as Abortion which she maybe can go on trial for.



It is nonsense at this point to think Marg can be tried for incest, lack of virginity, because it cannot be proved after the Tommen sex scene.



Littlefinger will say what to Cersei, Renly and Lancel were?



Please tell me how Mrag will stand trial?


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Can we consider this for a minute.

What can Marg get tried for right now on the show? Unless a new plot develops concerning adultery the marriage has been consummated she would have still been seen as virtuous.

Loras is the unvirtuous Marg on the show he is gay. Removing all other characters needed to make those accusations against Marg, which she went willingly to deny in the books. The same Characters backfired on Cersei. We did have a character in the show in season 3 who was suppose to spy on Marg but found nothing.

In the books Mrag used a potion from Pycelle that queen had found out about, when her spy found nothing, maybe that can happen again here on the show as Abortion which she maybe can go on trial for.

It is nonsense at this point to think Marg can be tried for incest, lack of virginity, because it cannot be proved after the Tommen sex scene.

Littlefinger will say what to Cersei, Renly and Lancel were?

Please tell me how Mrag will stand trial?

I don't know but Cersei wants Marg dead and she's using the High Sparrow to do it. She also doesn't want to marry Loras. Remember what she told Ned. Either you win the GOT or you die.

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I don't know but Cersei wants Marg dead and she's using the High Sparrow to do it. She also doesn't want to marry Loras. Remember what she told Ned. Either you win the GOT or you die.

Why does Cersei want Marg dead? Have we seen this? The season has changed from the books. We are basing the opening season prophecy into Cersei's new found piety. Although we didn't see how she handled that prophecy in murder did we?

I think the game here is slightly different? Are the Sparrows now judge jury and executioner everybody is going on Trial? Get the guillotines out Viva la Sparrow

What accusations can be thrown at Marg on the show currently? Discounting the simple fact Loras is Book Marg on the show.within certain extents

There is no lack of virginity, the potion Pycelle gave Marg in the books to stop bloody stuff. Maybe this can be used as an abortion now? Although any reasoning for wedding and killing child would mean adultery. She wed Joff after Renly because wait Renly was gay. Joff died before consummation, prior to this Cersei had a spy. Tommen has consummated their marriage. Unless a new development comes into play like adultery, there isn't too much Marg can go on trial for.

I get it because this shows demo is for hillbilly's, we can say dem Tyrells are incestuous bisexuals who wanna bugger Tommen in a mad Tyrell orgy. That could mean Tommen is on trial. While offending much of every other logical viewer

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What if Littlefinger remains in the North. He caused treason with Roose saying North East alliance can ride again. He wasn't that bothered by Cersei's summons. Hmm is he playing as a Manderley or a Frey? Or does he go back to KingsLanding?



If he goes back to Kingslanding he was master of coin, Cersei just sent the master of coin on holiday.



Marg having adultery with who? It wouldn't be with her brother or brother's lover possibly implicating the king as well. Littlefinger saying I seen Marg in the brothel although nobody else has. What could Littlefinger have on Marg who was allowed to marry Joff because Renly was gay. What new lover in season 3 that didn't find anything.



This show is getting ridiculous that the Sparrow faith militant can carry all Tyrells off to execution because they haven't got an army, and their champion is a supposed whimp. Meanwhile the Kingsguard serving are on holiday. Religion in Wiessteroff is old testament



Where is this information coming from, having read the books lets assume the show is the books, when every arc this season has changed?


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What the show has done in opinion is tried to simplify the books while trying to follow a similar course.



Using characters they have without adding much, slicing all the meat away to a bone.This has changed quite a few concepts, leaving some holes in its wake.



I might be wrong but was Littlefinger ever in Kinglanding at this time? So why would he be there now? Who are we missing in the Northern plot? Varys is far easier to be the same spider. Littlefinger is constantly teleporting so my guess is as good as anybodys



Marg has changed because her marriage has been consummated. She didn't have sex with Tommen in the books because of his age DUN DUN she can be tried for practically anything. Not now. Loras is that unvirtuous Marg suspended disbelief but yea.



Jamie in Dorne where did his arc end up?


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Can we consider this for a minute.

What can Marg get tried for right now on the show? Unless a new plot develops concerning adultery the marriage has been consummated she would have still been seen as virtuous.

Loras is the unvirtuous Marg on the show he is gay. Removing all other characters needed to make those accusations against Marg, which she went willingly to deny in the books. The same Characters backfired on Cersei. We did have a character in the show in season 3 who was suppose to spy on Marg but found nothing.

In the books Mrag used a potion from Pycelle that queen had found out about, when her spy found nothing, maybe that can happen again here on the show as Abortion which she maybe can go on trial for.

It is nonsense at this point to think Marg can be tried for incest, lack of virginity, because it cannot be proved after the Tommen sex scene.

Littlefinger will say what to Cersei, Renly and Lancel were?

Please tell me how Mrag will stand trial?

cersei can still accuse her of adultery, which is high treason. olyvar can lie that he's been having threesomes with loras and marge.

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cersei can still accuse her of adultery, which is high treason. olyvar can lie that he's been having threesomes with loras and marge.

Cersei can accuse Marg of adultery the only accusation possible? She had found no proof of adultery in season 3 before she wed Joff when she ask a knight to spy on Marg. Olyvar works in Littlefingers brothel, have we seen any interaction between him and Cersei? Olyvar is gay, I get it, he works in a Brothel for women?

Wait Cersei needs Littlefinger to get Olyvar to get Marg? Not to get his brothel rebuilt his whores recovered. Wait Olyvar develops now that Loras is jail?

Are people smokin crack? Marg Boleyn must die it is written. Actually she went to her trial freely, was likely found innocent, because most of her allegations had collapsed.

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Cersei can accuse Marg of adultery the only accusation possible? She had found no proof of adultery in season 3 before she wed Joff when she ask a knight to spy on Marg. Olyvar works in Littlefingers brothel, have we seen any interaction between him and Cersei? Olyvar is gay, I get it, he works in a Brothel for women?

Wait Cersei needs Littlefinger to get Olyvar to get Marg? Not to get his brothel rebuilt his whores recovered. Wait Olyvar develops now that Loras is jail?

Are people smokin crack? Marg Boleyn must die it is written. Actually she went to her trial freely, was likely found innocent, because most of her allegations had collapsed.

i honestly have no idea what you are saying, but i don't recall tv cersei ever asking a knight to spy on margaery.

i think olyvar will frame margaery to save his own ass, olenna seemed to be making threats at littlefinger in the trailer. i think littlefinger will switch sides from the tyrells to cersei in this instant and help her frame the tyrells. and then the high sparrow will torture the shit out of olyvar which will get cersei imprisoned. and lancel's confession will lead to cersei doing the walk of shame.

i definitely think margaery is a goner in season 6, they're really giving cersei ample reason to kill all the tyrells on the show. an the high sparrow thinking he can declaw and humble cersei with the WOS will end up biting him in the ass too. and since the high sparrow is being all friendly to cersei right now, it will come across as a real betrayal when he turns against her, which amps up cersei burning him down in season 6 even more than the books.

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i honestly have no idea what you are saying, but i don't recall tv cersei ever asking a knight to spy on margaery.

i think olyvar will frame margaery to save his own ass, olenna seemed to be making threats at littlefinger in the trailer. i think littlefinger will switch sides from the tyrells to cersei in this instant and help her frame the tyrells. and then the high sparrow will torture the shit out of olyvar which will get cersei imprisoned. and lancel's confession will lead to cersei doing the walk of shame.

i definitely think margaery is a goner in season 6, they're really giving cersei ample reason to kill all the tyrells on the show. an the high sparrow thinking he can declaw and humble cersei with the WOS will end up biting him in the ass too. and since the high sparrow is being all friendly to cersei right now, it will come across as a real betrayal when he turns against her, which amps up cersei burning him down in season 6 even more than the books.

What are you talking about? The Seasonal Trailer? Ollenna talking with Littlefinger when at what point where?

Can you please stop and think about what you are saying. Before spouting total nonsense

Olyvar is gay, he works in Littlefingers brothel. To get Loras off the hook. He says what? He loves Marg because he's gay working in a brothel where Marg frequents. This is offensive to any logical viewer, because all whores are now also bisexual?

Loras won't have much of any trial, he is likely a dead duck, the realms knows his crimes, game over, the same as the books, he was dying.

Cersei walk of shame where why? We have had one walk of shame the High Septon, are we gonna now have the female version because that makes for such equal TV, or does it shows a complete lack of imagination? Because everyone gets paraded naked in Kings Landing including possibly those actresses who have stopped getting nude.

Why is everybody going on trial, first Loras, then the Queen, and the Queen mother. Sparrows rule Kingslanding. 3 trials is one trial too many. Actually 4 trials with the hIgh Septon. Although the Septon didn't face trial strangely he was left to walk as free as the wind blows.

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Marg won't be accused of anything. Most likely Loras will be on trial due for being homosexual. Cersei calls for Littlefinger this episode most likely because he's Olyvars boss and she wants Olyvar to confess to sleeping with Loras

Boom and we know that Littlefinger can move through Westeros at warp speed . . . . Loras will be on trial by the religous leaders for being homosexual. Something completely at odds with the Dark Ages world that GRRM built.

But that is for another thread . .

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What are you talking about? The Seasonal Trailer? Ollenna talking with Littlefinger when at what point where?

Can you please stop and think about what you are saying. Before spouting total nonsense

Olyvar is gay, he works in Littlefingers brothel. To get Loras off the hook. He says what? He loves Marg because he's gay working in a brothel where Marg frequents. This is offensive to any logical viewer, because all whores are now also bisexual?

Loras won't have much of any trial, he is likely a dead duck, the realms knows his crimes, game over, the same as the books, he was dying.

Cersei walk of shame where why? We have had one walk of shame the High Septon, are we gonna now have the female version because that makes for such equal TV, or does it shows a complete lack of imagination? Because everyone gets paraded naked in Kings Landing including possibly those actresses who have stopped getting nude.

Why is everybody going on trial, first Loras, then the Queen, and the Queen mother. Sparrows rule Kingslanding. 3 trials is one trial too many. Actually 4 trials with the hIgh Septon. Although the Septon didn't face trial strangely he was left to walk as free as the wind blows.

at 1:07 in this trailer, olenna seems to be making threats at littlefinger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ai4JBJh53o

in the first episode of season 5, there was scene in which margaery walked in on loras and olyvar were having sex. i think that scene is going to lead to somewhere. there's no way cersei is just going to try to bring down loras, she'll definitely try to destroy margaery. cersei can pressure/torture olyvar into lying that he was having a threesome with margaery and loras. it doesn't matter what olyvar's sexuality is, he gets paid to have sex.

cersei's walk of shame has already been confirmed.

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at 1:07 in this trailer, olenna seems to be making threats at littlefinger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ai4JBJh53o

in the first episode of season 5, there was scene in which margaery walked in on loras and olyvar were having sex. i think that scene is going to lead to somewhere. there's no way cersei is just going to try to bring down loras, she'll definitely try to destroy margaery. cersei can pressure/torture olyvar into lying that he was having a threesome with margaery and loras. it doesn't matter what olyvar's sexuality is, he gets paid to have sex.

cersei's walk of shame has already been confirmed.

I don't watch realities thronecast I couldn't possibly think of anything in all of the Seven Hells more boring to watch. I may however watch the final product. The only trailers I watch are those that are advertised everywhere as adverts.

Ollenna wouldn't be blaming Littlefinger, for the loss of her son, being Olyvar worked for him?

The scene with Marg in a room summoning Loras for the king. Must mean? Marg called on her brother? Although i suppose it must mean she is engaged in an incestuous bisexual orgy?

Tv fails doesn't it, gotta have everyone naked in repetition for any bingo? I found some photo's of a Croatia set, so I guess I have been trolled.

My prejudice to any repetition here is it lacks in any actual surprise, repeating itself, but failing in concept. The impact is quite lost on her scene, as now it is only there for yet another viewing of nudity, not quite historically intended as the walk of shame. We have seen it already. Despite of any modern equality. In medieval times an old man the Septon had not been placed on a spike, or burned, but has been set free to do a walk of shame. However often they would pray naked when lying on the ground, it is only recently, modern, that they are clothed, they would walk barefoot, possibly also be seen naked. It was utterly ridiculous. Losing the later impact of the walk of shame because everybody is doing it, failing historically. However nobility often women historically doing that walk of shame held a different sentence.

Lets see that sceen again for equalities sake, that same equality which couldn't give two hoots whether, or not, if it was man or a woman. What are you selling, rehash, rewind, play it all again for nudities sake.

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I absolutely hated this change.



Last season even emphasised just how young (he was only meant to be 12) and innocent Tommen was; after Margaery visited his bedchamber, he just curled up and went to sleep instead of doing something else. This episode on the wedding night the writers pulled a “Podrick” on him and transformed him into a sex god who performed four times in one night. If he was a 12 or 13 year old female there’d be an uproar about this. How can the writers now claim that Tommen is 18 given what he looked like in seasons 1 and 2 and given that he's younger than Myrcella who's barely 15?



Also this change completely ruins the book plot. In the books Margaery has 3 out of 3 marriages unconsummated and might indeed by a virgin, leading Cersei to attempt to fabricate evidence suggesting otherwise, which cannot work now. Also this makes it far too easy on TV for Margaery to manipulate Tommen because she's sleeping wiht him.


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How can the writers now claim that Tommen is 18[...]

I don't think D&D have claimed that anywhere? It's the not official GOT-Wiki that claims this now since the editors there are pants-pissing terrified of the implications of the consumation scene otherwise.

Dean Charles Chapman said he plays Tommen as around 12 years old at least in his recent interview about episode 5.3.

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  • 2 weeks later...

There actually could be some evidence that Marge wasn't a virgin: no pain or bleeding on her most recent wedding night (no one would've advised Tommen on this?). Didn't Loras admit she was only "technically" qualifying last season? (Anybody got a direct quote?).

Maybe Loras will be tortured and pressed for details, or as suggested earlier, Olyvar will testify against her.

There's always the horseback-riding excuse...

Without a preponderance of (false, planted), evidence, I find it hard to believe the judge/court would find it credible that the most

openly gay nobleman in King's Landing would carry on with his own sister--"What am I, a Targaryen? What am I, the Kingslayer?".

Then again, maybe the High Septon or High Sparrow will lie about receiving a supernatural revelation about the whole mess.

The "neatest" way to tie some of these plot threads would be for the show to reveal that Loras was actually arrested for incest and the hordes of Sparrows, not knowing the actual charges, misinterpreted their new mandate as "target homosexuals." Cersei will be gloating over the arrest until Lancel hoists her with her own petard.

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