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Mr Hodor

How large is 'show' Westeros (possible book spoilers)

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A raven Dispatched from KL reached eyrie, and the letter was sent by a RIder from eyrie to Winterfell in a single episode?


In last episode, people reached from Moat Cailin to Winterfell without any hassle or even looking tired.


Roose Bolton measured North in a few hundred miles.


In the first episode of the first season it took Robert and Co a month to travel from KL to Winterfell.



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Just sloppy writing. 99% of the TV audience aren't going to question it while book fans will just shrug it off as a lazy way of driving the plot forward.


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Look at the map Jorah is holding during the scene in which Barristan speaks to him before he's exiled. Look at the part of KL, the Fingers, the Isle of Faces and the Stormlands. The Isle of Faces is pretty much horizontally aligned with King's Landing.



So, yeah, in the show, it's smaller.


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How large is Planetos? No one knows for certain. The POVs in book and show cannot have a better understanding of their world then medieval cartography had of Earth before circumnavigation. Possibly Euron has circumnavigated Planetos, but it doesn't even look like he's in the show.



Then consider that the time in books is not necessarily linear from chapter to chapter, though it is from scene to scene whilst in show the time is generally linear per episode but the time between scenes is undefined and inconsistent.



What this all means is that neither GRRM or the show has tried to define it accurately, so that the 'realism' of distance and time can never detract from the story being told.

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Yoren said that, but that could just be "season 1 oddness" (which for this show means when they were being basically 100% faithful to the books). My impression has always been that show Westeros is quite a bit smaller than book Westeros; maybe 2-3 times the size of the UK for instance, rather than the size of South America like it is in the books.



Either way though, I think this episode was clearly meant to convey a larger period of time passing (at least for that plot, as always, each plot seems to move at its own speed). Just like when Ned, Robert, and Co. traveled from WF to KL in 1.5 episodes back in season 1.


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First, ravens are fast, even in the real world.


Second, some Westerosi characters, most notably Tywin Lannister, have access to fax, as noted the time when Tywin Lannister sent a letter all the way to Mereen. (Since I doubt Ser Barristan would have access to a computer, a printer, and bothered to know how to use them, email isn't an option)


Third, Bolton describes the size of the North to Ramsay last season, which is likely to be more accurate as the show likely retconned never fully stablished stuff like the size of Westeros.


Fourth, likely the size of a mid sized modern country, like South Africa


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For the sake of expediency and not having characters on hold for episodes on end while they travel vast distances, a little level of suspension of disbelief is required.



In a show about dragons, wargs and white walkers, I don’t see any issue in not having to wait for 6 episodes for a message to travel from city to city. Especially if it helps the plot along.



For example in season one episode #1 Jon Arryn died, the news reached Winterfell, along with the news that the King was on his way, and then the King arrived. Only a comment from Cersei indicated the passage of time in between. By season one episode #5 Catelyn had sat beside her sick child, gone to KL, returned most of the way to the North, met up with Tyrion on his return from the Wall and made it to the Eyrie. Not to mention the fact that news that Tyrion had been taken prisoner reached KL.



Its all about practicality, else the plot would never progress.


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Why do people always seem to assume that everything that happens in an episode happens in one day? This isn't 24. Just because it doesn't say "One month later" at the bottom of the screen every time some long distances are covered doesn't mean time didn't pass.


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Why do people always seem to assume that everything that happens in an episode happens in one day? This isn't 24. Just because it doesn't say "One month later" at the bottom of the screen every time some long distances are covered doesn't mean time didn't pass.

Yes and no. The problem is that while one storyline seems to be weeks later, another storyline may just be a few hours later. Mind you, I don't see this is a big deal, because worrying about it too much would ruin both show and books. There is probably no way a "daily record" of the story, like was in the appendices of Lord of the Rings, could be made for Song of Ice and Fire.

Didn't Martin himself say somewhere that he'd messed up the distances of Westeros?

The timespans are probably just going to get weirder as we enter the phases that were originally supposed to be in GRRM's five-year gap.

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In the books, the events don't happen chronologically.



Speeding things up to get from one point to the next is not sloppy writing. It is cutting out the parts nobody cares about.



Do we need to see Luke Skywalker on a toilet to show what he is doing when he isn't training in the force?


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Why do people always seem to assume that everything that happens in an episode happens in one day? This isn't 24. Just because it doesn't say "One month later" at the bottom of the screen every time some long distances are covered doesn't mean time didn't pass.

In the books, the events don't happen chronologically.

Speeding things up to get from one point to the next is not sloppy writing. It is cutting out the parts nobody cares about.

Do we need to see Luke Skywalker on a toilet to show what he is doing when he isn't training in the force?

That's two good answers :bowdown:

These complaints about "teleport" are getting ridiculous, there's no indication of time span between two scenes, it can be 1 minute as it can be 2 months.

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Second, some Westerosi characters, most notably Tywin Lannister, have access to fax, as noted the time when Tywin Lannister sent a letter all the way to Mereen. (Since I doubt Ser Barristan would have access to a computer, a printer, and bothered to know how to use them, email isn't an option)

Haha! This got me right here *points to heart* and right here *points to heart again*.

These complaints about "teleport" are getting ridiculous, there's no indication of time span between two scenes, it can be 1 minute as it can be 2 months.

Yeah. I look at it as really loose linear timespans. I would never assume that the scene with Qyburn happened and then the scene with LF getting the message was like, 5 hours later. More likely, the scene with Qyburn was while they were en route to Winterfell after the Brienne fracas. A group travels slower than a single message rider (types of horses, cargo, rider capability) so it's believable enough.

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Look, I have no problem with the size/time reduction for travel but the messenger that somehow, got passed LF to Winterfell with a message from Kings Landing, was a bit too much. Especially when Lf supposedly told everyone he was headed to the fingers and not to Winterfell. I wonder what Royce is thinking of LF right now?


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Royce delivers the message to the Fingers, someone there relays it to Winterfell, Royce never knows what happened

Royce isn't castellan of the Eyrie or anything like that, and he's most likely still at Runestone with Robin, so he couldn't know about anything unless he has a spy among LF's personal guards.

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