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robasp2

Thoughts on Jon as commander?

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A wonderful moment when Jon established his power as Lord Commander by chopping off Janos head.

But he could only do it since Ser Allister allowed Janos to be taken (half of the nights watch is backing Ser Allister).

Jon made Allister first ranger, thus losing a little bit support from Jon's half of the nights watch.

So I think Jon's power as Lord Commander is only present as long as Allister or Stannis back him.

Your thoughts on this new power and responsibility Kon gets?

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Alliser is no fool. He's a man of the Night's Watch, first and foremost, no matter what people want to think of him. He only kept Janos around him because he offered possible favor from King's Landing. He never cared for him, and would never risk his own neck for him.



Even IF Alliser would want to try and save the coward Janos (no way) he knows it would have meant his own neck too.



And if Alliser was elected, he would have been been given his due respect with or without any support from Stannis.


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I felt it was rushed. What's the purpose of an episode called Kill the Boy if he's already shown himself to be a man, in a big way? The fact that the show didn't allow Slynt to stew in the cells while Jon wrestled with his decision before offing a still unrepentant Slynt kind of made Jon look more like a hardass stickler than Thorne, in some respects.

But I did enjoy his cleverness at giving Thorne respect when Thorne thought for sure it was payback time and he'd be digging latrines.

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I felt it was rushed. What's the purpose of an episode called Kill the Boy if he's already shown himself to be a man, in a big way? The fact that the show didn't allow Slynt to stew in the cells while Jon wrestled with his decision before offing a still unrepentant Slynt kind of made Jon look more like a hardass stickler than Thorne, in some respects.

But I did enjoy his cleverness at giving Thorne respect when Thorne thought for sure it was payback time and he'd be digging latrines.

Me too. A D&D change....dare I say....I actually liked

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Alliser is no fool. He's a man of the Night's Watch, first and foremost, no matter what people want to think of him. He only kept Janos around him because he offered possible favor from King's Landing. He never cared for him, and would never risk his own neck for him.

Even IF Alliser would want to try and save the coward Janos (no way) he knows it would have meant his own neck too.

And if Alliser was elected, he would have been been given his due respect with or without any support from Stannis.

The vote was decided by Aemon.

So exactly half support him. With the First ranger appointment Jon will lose more supporters.

So it would not mean his neck too. Too many supporters, even Jon can't order Allister's death.

He hates Jon so badly. You can see him smiling with happiness when Janos tells Jon to stick it up his arse.

So why he steps aside is a mystery !!!

Anyway, Jon owes it to Allister. Think how powerless Jon would be without him.

Jon: Take Janos outside

(few people stand up)

Allister: You'll have to go through me

(more than half line up beside Allister)

Jon fails.

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Jon's not going lose his supporters simply for giving Thorne his due. He's gained the support of people he didn't have favor with by doing so.

As far as the "Kill the Boy" line, let's wait and see how it's applied before we say that it "feels rushed". This isn't the books, so we can't expect the same things to apply the same way.

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Couple of problems I'm seeing with this:



- It wasn't half Jon and half Alliser; Denys had a sizeable portion of votes too. Who they would support in a Jon vs Alliser situation is unknown.


- Jon may have lost votes in giving Alliser the appointment, but he may have gained some votes as well (by showing he's not petty and that he recognizes talent), and Alliser likely can't rely on his voters to back him in a coup (not everyone is going to be a die-hard loyalist, most would likely adhere to the democratic process they have going).


- It's true that Jon is reliant on Alliser's approval to a degree given the amount of support he appears to have, but Jon can't control that, it's a fact of life he needs to deal with. As it stands I'd say he dealt with it well. Giving Alliser the effective second-in-command position is a good way to mollify him and his supporters, and make use of his available talent.


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You can still have the respect of people that wouldn't necessarily like you or vote for you. And those people may still follow you if they believe you are a strong leader. Sam listed a lot of reasons why members of the Watch would respect and follow Jon even if some didn't vote for him. And the beheading must have cemented a healthy dose of fear as well in anyone seriously thinking that the 'boy' would be a weak leader.



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The vote was decided by Aemon.

So exactly half support him.

Not exactly half...there were some votes for Denys Mallister (I could be totally butchering his name here)

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The vote was decided by Aemon.

So exactly half support him. With the First ranger appointment Jon will lose more supporters.

So it would not mean his neck too. Too many supporters, even Jon can't order Allister's death.

He hates Jon so badly. You can see him smiling with happiness when Janos tells Jon to stick it up his arse.

So why he steps aside is a mystery !!!

Anyway, Jon owes it to Allister. Think how powerless Jon would be without him.

Jon: Take Janos outside

(few people stand up)

Allister: You'll have to go through me

(more than half line up beside Allister)

Jon fails.

Or not. They can go "through" Allister who is not sure if he has support from majority. There is another half beside Jon, don't know where you get that "more than half beside Allister".

Anyway, Allister is no fool. He is not going to confront Jon openly, especially after he was just rewarded with the new title. He understands bravery and discipline, and Lord Janos prooved he lacks these qualities. No wonder Allister doesn't stand behind him.

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He hates Jon so badly. You can see him smiling with happiness when Janos tells Jon to stick it up his arse.

So why he steps aside is a mystery !!!.

Didn't take this as a happy Jon got told off smile. More of a you just signed your own death warrant Slynt smile.

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Thorne didn't see Slynt as worth protecting. By the looks of it, no one did.

Thorne will probably never like Jon Snow. But Jon doesn't care about that- he cares about being able to work with him, which is what the NW needs.

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Throne smiling, when Jon was commanding Slynt to pack up and leave, was not a slight at Jon. It looked more along the lines of, "Oh damn! Shit just got real."

But for arguments sake, ill give that to you and it was an insult to Jon. However, explain the smirk Thorne gave Slynt, when he turned his back on him and let Edd take him?

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Love that everyone thinks that chopping off someone's head for back-chat both is and will be interpreted as a sign of strength.


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I thought jon & alliser kind of made peace when alliser was appointed first ranger. they can hate each other but why fight internally when winter is seriously coming? jon getting betrayed always bothered me because he was bringing people together so much. I'm also a huge free folk sympathizer & want them south of the wall when it all goes down.


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People make a lot of assumptions and state them as fact. Yes, the VOTE was almost dead even between Jon and Allister. The VOTE. That doesn't mean that the men of the NW are going to stand idly by and have a coward be openly insubordinate of their LC right after LC Mormont was ceasered by mutineers.

I would say that some would have sided with Allister but that is all. They all know what insubordination can lead to.

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Love that everyone thinks that chopping off someone's head for back-chat both is and will be interpreted as a sign of strength.

Love that you are oversimplifying a rather complex situation into "oh, he was just sassy and was murdered for it!"

Because that's not at all how it happened or why it happened.

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So what was the look between Jon and Stannis about - is there anything in it at all? I almost expected to see Stannis nod his head in approval or something, but the nod never came.


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So what was the look between Jon and Stannis about - is there anything in it at all? I almost expected to see Stannis nod his head in approval or something, but the nod never came.

Rewatch it. There was a nod.

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Rewatch it. There was a nod.

Indeed. Big time

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