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Nathaniel Stark

[BOOK SPOILERS] Margaery Plot Changes

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So, in episode 3 we see Margaery and Tommen post wedding night fun, this is different because in the books Tommen has not come of age yet, so the marriage is not to be consummated until he has.



At the end of the plot in Kings Landing, seemingly both Cersei and Margaery are set to be on trial early in Winds of Winter, and a major part of the accusations against Margaery are that she claims to still be a maiden / virgin, whilst married to Tommen. Now that this is changed due to Tommen being aged up in the show, how do you think it will be played out differently? (In the show)


Perhaps she will be accused of adultery after marriage to the king?


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I also wondered if the High Septon's walk of shame replaced the one Cersei had in the book. It had certain similarities.


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I think the focus will be placed on Loras and his sexuality rather than on Marg in the show and I felt like the High Septon's walk of shame was setting up Cersei's rather than replacing it. But who knows. Would really hate for them to do away with Cersei's walk...


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Cersei is going to accuse Margaery of partaking in Loras and Olyvar's little meetings, so she would be guilty of adultery, incest, and complicity in homosexuality.

I think that's why Cersei wrote to Littlefinger. She wants him to get Olyvar to give a false confession to the High Sparrow as that one Kettleblack did in the books.

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They might make the Franken-Mountain come alive sooner to save Carol from taking the walk...


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Been wondering the same ever since I saw the trailer that showed Loras attacking Olyvar at some kind of trial.

I don't think they are going to abandon Cersei going after Margaery (as well as Loras). The only reason I think they still will is because they included the YMB part of the valonquar prophecy. Cersei is very explicit in her thoughts in her POV chapters that she wants/needs Margaery dead in order to protect herself and Tommen. Going after solely Loras does nothing to neutralize the YMB threat that she sees in Magaery. If anything it increases it.

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Cersei is going to accuse Margaery of partaking in Loras and Olyvar's little meetings, so she would be guilty of adultery, incest, and complicity in homosexuality.

I think that's why Cersei wrote to Littlefinger. She wants him to get Olyvar to give a false confession to the High Sparrow as that one Kettleblack did in the books.

Really good point, this could well be the way they go with it. I'm sure that they will do Cersei's walk of shame, I've heard multiple reports about the filming of it, including that they had to move locations at one point because the land owners would not allow the nudity.

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Been wondering the same ever since I saw the trailer that showed Loras attacking Olyvar at some kind of trial.

I don't think they are going to abandon Cersei going after Margaery (as well as Loras). The only reason I think they still will is because they included the YMB part of the valonquar prophecy. Cersei is very explicit in her thoughts in her POV chapters that she wants/needs Margaery dead in order to protect herself and Tommen. Going after solely Loras does nothing to neutralize the YMB threat that she sees in Magaery. If anything it increases it.

I agree, I remember seeing that scene in the trailer and thinking it looked like it could fit as a trial, either combining with Margaery's one perhaps, or even foreshadowing it, similarly to the high septon's walk of shame potentially foreshadowing Cersei's.

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Cersei is going to accuse Margaery of partaking in Loras and Olyvar's little meetings, so she would be guilty of adultery, incest, and complicity in homosexuality.

I think that's why Cersei wrote to Littlefinger. She wants him to get Olyvar to give a false confession to the High Sparrow as that one Kettleblack did in the books.

I agree with you on the first point. I'm not sure how LF plays into this though, since the Tyrells are his "new friends." Then again, "friends" are just pieces on the board for LF.

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I agree with you on the first point. I'm not sure how LF plays into this though, since the Tyrells are his "new friends." Then again, "friends" are just pieces on the board for LF.

Perhaps Olenna finds out and confronts him, which is what prompts her threat to him?

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Perhaps she will be accused of adultery after marriage to the king?

I think the timing will be switched. Both queens will be trying to take the other down but Cersei will go down first while Loras will bear the brunt for the Tyrells. Depending on Book Margaery's outcome, Show Margaery will probably be faced with a different challenge that will take her down.

I also wondered if the High Septon's walk of shame replaced the one Cersei had in the book. It had certain similarities.

Cersei's walk is definitely happening. There have been photos and interviews already shared.

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Perhaps Olenna finds out and confronts him, which is what prompts her threat to him?

Yeah, the "they'll never find what's left of you" bit from the trailer.

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Yeah, the "they'll never find what's left of you" bit from the trailer.

that either means Highgarden will be featured or Olenna comes back to KL. Also in the books Mace refused to leave the capital until Marge was cleared and isn't he meant to be going to Bravos in the show? Also in the show Loras isn't KG, thus, still heir to Highgarden so maybe this is the shows way of sorting that out?

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My theory before the season started (but based on the trailer suggesting Loras was in some trouble with Sparrows) would be that Cersei uses the Sparrows as a weapon against Loras (my initial guess was that this might be as some pretext to set aside their supposed marriage arrangement, but since that hasn't been emphasised so far this season I guess it will just be to screw with Margaery and the Tyrells in general). In doing this she would grant them more power (looking likely, since she backed the High Sparrrow over the existing High Septon last episode right after deciding she needs a weapon against the Tyrells, and presumably next episode might see her replace the High Septon with the High Sparrow (or allow this to happen)). Loras wouldn't necessarily be executed (homosexuality is not already punishable by death so it'd be quite a bold move to push for that) but perhaps banished from King's Landing. Then, after gaining confidence from her successful move against Loras, she would try the same trick against Margaery, except here she would have to lie or fabricate evidence as she can't get anything legitimate on Marge. In doing so she would further empower the Sparrows (perhaps rearming the Faith) and establish the precedent of the Faith arresting / judging a queen. However this will backfire when the Sparrows get something (lying, incest, conspiracy to kill Robert, take your pick) on her instead and arrest her, leading to Walk Of Shame and (possibly next season) trial by combat.

It is still looking like this prediction is roughly on course, and even though it's clear that Cersei is sending the Sparrows after Loras next episode I am still not convinced that this is a replacement for the attempt to do the same to Margaery, rather than a precursor. I could still see Cersei setting up Marge circa episode 6, with the backfire in episode 7 or 8. Only thing throwing a wrench in the works is the fact that Tommen and Margaery are already married, so maybe as the queen proper Margaery can't be touched directly. But even though the Sparrows vs. Loras is in the show I'd still guess that Margaery will be at least accused by Cersei rather than the entire thing falling on Loras.

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I also wondered if the High Septon's walk of shame replaced the one Cersei had in the book. It had certain similarities.

I had the exact same thought!

Cersei is going to accuse Margaery of partaking in Loras and Olyvar's little meetings, so she would be guilty of adultery, incest, and complicity in homosexuality.

I think that's why Cersei wrote to Littlefinger. She wants him to get Olyvar to give a false confession to the High Sparrow as that one Kettleblack did in the books.

I agree with you, but I don't think that's the reason Cersei wrote Littlefinger. I think she has her own ways to make him give a false confession

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Cersei is going to accuse Margaery of partaking in Loras and Olyvar's little meetings, so she would be guilty of adultery, incest, and complicity in homosexuality.

I think that's why Cersei wrote to Littlefinger. She wants him to get Olyvar to give a false confession to the High Sparrow as that one Kettleblack did in the books.

:agree: And they already set it up with her having to go to the brothel to get Loras out of bed with Olyvar so now she can be confirmed to be in a room with them both.

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:agree: And they already set it up with her having to go to the brothel to get Loras out of bed with Olyvar so now she can be confirmed to be in a room with them both.

Yep, and all those people complaining about the nude scene in episode 1...

I thought it pretty obvious something of the sort was going down.

Watching Game of Thrones and complaining about the sex is a bit like watching deep throat and complaining about the sex.

Nobody complained about the gratuitously flayed man and woman.

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I definitely think Loras will probably be tried and killed this season and Marge is being set up as a villain. Show!Cersei didn't really do anything terrible and seems like the more moral of the twins at this point I could definitely see her being in the right against Marge. Especially with how she's manipulated a 14 year old with sex.


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Cersei is going to accuse Margaery of partaking in Loras and Olyvar's little meetings, so she would be guilty of adultery, incest, and complicity in homosexuality.

I think that's why Cersei wrote to Littlefinger. She wants him to get Olyvar to give a false confession to the High Sparrow as that one Kettleblack did in the books.

I agree. I think they're going the route of Anne Boleyn, who was accused of adultery and incest with her brother, George Boleyn, which certainly doesn't bode well for Loras, as the historical George Boleyn was executed along with his sister.

All Olyvar needs to do is claim that during that scene in 5x01 with Loras, Olyvar, and Margaery, Margaery participated in their little romp. Only the three of them were present, so there's no one else apart from Loras and Margaery themselves to refute Olyvar's version of events.

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