Jump to content

[BOOK SPOILERS] Margaery Plot Changes


Nathaniel Stark

Recommended Posts

that either means Highgarden will be featured or Olenna comes back to KL. Also in the books Mace refused to leave the capital until Marge was cleared and isn't he meant to be going to Bravos in the show? Also in the show Loras isn't KG, thus, still heir to Highgarden so maybe this is the shows way of sorting that out?

GRRM did say he was excited to feature Highgarden in WOW. So this is a possibility. Anyone else think HG will feature in season six of the series, to contrast Dorne?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the focus will be placed on Loras and his sexuality rather than on Marg in the show and I felt like the High Septon's walk of shame was setting up Cersei's rather than replacing it. But who knows. Would really hate for them to do away with Cersei's walk...

Thats my opinion, too. And I am quite sure that Cersei will have her walk of shame, because there was somewhere the statement, that this season we will see the actress naked

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cersei is going to accuse Margaery of partaking in Loras and Olyvar's little meetings, so she would be guilty of adultery, incest, and complicity in homosexuality.

I think that's why Cersei wrote to Littlefinger. She wants him to get Olyvar to give a false confession to the High Sparrow as that one Kettleblack did in the books.

I agree.

And after all it is something Margaery was willing to do anyway with Renly, so it will not be too difficult to demonstrate that she's into incestual homosexual threesomes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if Margaery will have to throw Loras under the bus to save herself? That would make her character a lot darker. But it would be pretty hard to believe. We haven't really seen how far she is willing to go, but she was shocked and unhappy that Olenna poisoned Joffrey, but having been through that experience and Tyrion's show trial, she might be more ruthless than before.



So Loras is arrested, Margaery freaks out, Tommen tries to intervene and is unable to. Then accusations are made against Margaery, and then I'm not sure what happens, beyond guessing that Olenna is the one who eventually cleans it all up.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

The way they are speeding up the series, I wonder if the Margeary story, we book readers know will be expedited as well?. I often wonderd would Cersei be so desperate to hold onto power as to marry Tommen to Myrcella? if Tommen was free? Hell yes she would!


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it serves LF's interest to rid the world of the Heir to Highgarden (Loras). With Loras out of the way, that would make (I assume) Margaery the heir to Highgarden. Because he mentioned Margaery's love of Sansa in the last episode, I expect that he'll use that friendship to form an alliance with The Reach, thus bringing four Kingdoms (The North, The Vale, The Riverlands, and The Reach) under his--and Sansa's--"control". If he then unites these Kingdoms to Stannis, that basically creates a "United Kingdom" that will stand against Daenerys when she finally crosses over. Then everybody can kill each other and he (I presume with Sansa) will end up "King of the Ashes".


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it serves LF's interest to rid the world of the Heir to Highgarden (Loras). With Loras out of the way, that would make (I assume) Margaery the heir to Highgarden. Because he mentioned Margaery's love of Sansa in the last episode, I expect that he'll use that friendship to form an alliance with The Reach, thus bringing four Kingdoms (The North, The Vale, The Riverlands, and The Reach) under his--and Sansa's--"control". If he then unites these Kingdoms to Stannis, that basically creates a "United Kingdom" that will stand against Daenerys when she finally crosses over. Then everybody can kill each other and he (I presume with Sansa) will end up "King of the Ashes".

How would Littlefinger gain control over Margeary? Over Tommen? Naw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How would Littlefinger gain control over Margeary? Over Tommen? Naw.

I don't consider Tommen a factor and if Stannis sit on the Throne (however brief), Tommen will already be dead. And he doesn't "control" Margaery. He uses the friendship between Sansa and Margaery to unite those kingdoms in an allegiance (the same way the friendship between Robert/Ned/Jon Arryn united The North, The Vale and the Stormlands).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't consider Tommen a factor and if Stannis sit on the Throne (however brief), Tommen will already be dead. And he doesn't "control" Margaery. He uses the friendship between Sansa and Margaery to unite those kingdoms in an allegiance (the same way the friendship between Robert/Ned/Jon Arryn united The North, The Vale and the Stormlands).

I feel as though this could easily be accomplished by preserving Loras as heir to Highgarden. After all, Loras & marge are in cahoots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GRRM did say he was excited to feature Highgarden in WOW. So this is a possibility. Anyone else think HG will feature in season six of the series, to contrast Dorne?

Hope so. Not sure how we've seen castles like Runestone, and Stokeworth before Highgarden, Storm's End, or Casterly Rock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's dead weight so far.



It's spending exorbitant amount of time expanding an arc in the books that doesn't exist in a season where so much has to be cut because it's being crammed into about ten hours. As we can tell from the Small Council scene, Cersei is still "in power.," even though Tommen has come of age in the sense how the show handles coming of age. I guess Tommen just doesn't want to be a ruler or take charge. Whether he's 14 or 4, it looks like he's taking the same role as younger, book Tommen who just sits things out. You could have Tommen be played by the same kid from S1/2 easily in a minimal role and save screentime to pursue other arcs like Davos/Manderly or Yara/Balon or Cersei/Taena. Hearing Tommen talk again about him not feeling guilty for his brother's death, Margaery manipulating him, it just doesn't do anything for me.



This also messes with the "younger, more beautiful queen" prophecy because Margaery has been the one to cast Cersei down. Her consummation of marriage to Tommen made him "a man" and removed Cersei's legal regency. I thought the folly of the prophecy was supposed to be that Cersei believes it's Margaery when it's really going to be someone else. Do D&D think it really was Margaery? Did GRRM tell them it was supposed to be about Margaery? Did they not notice this occurred as a byproduct? Why didn't they change it to younger, more beautiful Queens?



Maybe they'll turn everything around and make it an amazing arc with a rocky beginning but so far it's incredibly dry and replacing juicy material.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

My theory before the season started (but based on the trailer suggesting Loras was in some trouble with Sparrows) would be that Cersei uses the Sparrows as a weapon against Loras (my initial guess was that this might be as some pretext to set aside their supposed marriage arrangement, but since that hasn't been emphasised so far this season I guess it will just be to screw with Margaery and the Tyrells in general).

Wasn't this (the bold) part of the "previously on" section of one of the episodes (I could be mistaken but I think it was)?

I'm not sure that classifies as emphasis, but usually D&D are very smart and extremely purposeful when choosing what to show in that segment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's dead weight so far.

It's spending exorbitant amount of time expanding an arc in the books that doesn't exist in a season where so much has to be cut because it's being crammed into about ten hours. As we can tell from the Small Council scene, Cersei is still "in power.," even though Tommen has come of age in the sense how the show handles coming of age. I guess Tommen just doesn't want to be a ruler or take charge. Whether he's 14 or 4, it looks like he's taking the same role as younger, book Tommen who just sits things out. You could have Tommen be played by the same kid from S1/2 easily in a minimal role and save screentime to pursue other arcs like Davos/Manderly or Yara/Balon or Cersei/Taena. Hearing Tommen talk again about him not feeling guilty for his brother's death, Margaery manipulating him, it just doesn't do anything for me.

This also messes with the "younger, more beautiful queen" prophecy because Margaery has been the one to cast Cersei down. Her consummation of marriage to Tommen made him "a man" and removed Cersei's legal regency. I thought the folly of the prophecy was supposed to be that Cersei believes it's Margaery when it's really going to be someone else. Do D&D think it really was Margaery? Did GRRM tell them it was supposed to be about Margaery? Did they not notice this occurred as a byproduct? Why didn't they change it to younger, more beautiful Queens?

Maybe they'll turn everything around and make it an amazing arc with a rocky beginning but so far it's incredibly dry and replacing juicy material.

For me, the Margaery manipulating Tommen arc doesn't feed into or change the YMB prophecy because I think we are supposed to see that Cersei created the monster she was trying to prevent. Margaery is definitely a killing bees with honey before vinegar type. She tried to sweeten her way to Cersei's heart only to be rejected and threatened even.

As for YMB - the reason I don't abbreviate it YMBQ is because I'm starting to fall into the camp that it won't be a queen, not the way we've thought of queen at least. The prophecy says "then comes another, younger, more beautiful." We are supposed to infer another queen but she doesn't actually say that. And English is muddy enough in this instance that "another" can stand in just for another person generally, without referring back to the first specific type of person mentioned. I'm not 100% there yet, more like 50/50 (split between Sansa and Brienne the Beauty).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel as though this could easily be accomplished by preserving Loras as heir to Highgarden. After all, Loras & marge are in cahoots.

I think LF is blowing smoke when he mentions Margeary adoring Sansa. Also, show Sansa seems to distrust everyone, as she should?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me, the Margaery manipulating Tommen arc doesn't feed into or change the YMB prophecy because I think we are supposed to see that Cersei created the monster she was trying to prevent. Margaery is definitely a killing bees with honey before vinegar type. She tried to sweeten her way to Cersei's heart only to be rejected and threatened even.

As for YMB - the reason I don't abbreviate it YMBQ is because I'm starting to fall into the camp that it won't be a queen, not the way we've thought of queen at least. The prophecy says "then comes another, younger, more beautiful." We are supposed to infer another queen but she doesn't actually say that. And English is muddy enough in this instance that "another" can stand in just for another person generally, without referring back to the first specific type of person mentioned. I'm not 100% there yet, more like 50/50 (split between Sansa and Brienne the Beauty).

Cersei is all about the power and her children were her outlet. Jaime is not that important to her in comparison to her power through Their bastards. Jaime's redemption arc is sparked by him realizing that. Brienne cannot take anything away from Cersei that she holds most dear. On the show, it is seemingly that Margeary is viewed by Cersei as that threat. However, I think not, in the end it will be a permanent replacement after when all of her children die in front of her eyes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cersei is all about the power and her children were her outlet. Jaime is not that important to her in comparison to her power through Their bastards. Jaime's redemption arc is sparked by him realizing that. Brienne cannot take anything away from Cersei that she holds most dear. On the show, it is seemingly that Margeary is viewed by Cersei as that threat. However, I think not, in the end it will be a permanent replacement after when all of her children die in front of her eyes.

That's true. Who do you think is the YMB(Q) who will take everything she holds most dear?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sansa or Dany. I have some theories on Sansa that could still play out in the books and show. Sansa will I suspect be the Queen but how she gets there seems far fetched on the show at this point. The Queen, not just a Queen. Dany is the other obvious one. Another possibility was not even cast so I do not know at this point, what does her book part matter?


Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's dead weight so far.

It's spending exorbitant amount of time expanding an arc in the books that doesn't exist in a season where so much has to be cut because it's being crammed into about ten hours. As we can tell from the Small Council scene, Cersei is still "in power.," even though Tommen has come of age in the sense how the show handles coming of age. I guess Tommen just doesn't want to be a ruler or take charge. Whether he's 14 or 4, it looks like he's taking the same role as younger, book Tommen who just sits things out. You could have Tommen be played by the same kid from S1/2 easily in a minimal role and save screentime to pursue other arcs like Davos/Manderly or Yara/Balon or Cersei/Taena. Hearing Tommen talk again about him not feeling guilty for his brother's death, Margaery manipulating him, it just doesn't do anything for me.

This also messes with the "younger, more beautiful queen" prophecy because Margaery has been the one to cast Cersei down. Her consummation of marriage to Tommen made him "a man" and removed Cersei's legal regency. I thought the folly of the prophecy was supposed to be that Cersei believes it's Margaery when it's really going to be someone else. Do D&D think it really was Margaery? Did GRRM tell them it was supposed to be about Margaery? Did they not notice this occurred as a byproduct? Why didn't they change it to younger, more beautiful Queens?

Maybe they'll turn everything around and make it an amazing arc with a rocky beginning but so far it's incredibly dry and replacing juicy material.

I enjoy the cersei-marge arc honestly. i just didnt respond to them portraying marge as manipulative - i was expecting something kinder than that, in a way. but this is GoT after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...