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Robb's Will vs. Stannis' Will

Mithras

By Mithras,
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Mithras

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Of course there is no such thing as Stannis' Will as far as we know. However, it is possible that Stannis might write a similar will to that of Robb before going to a serious war (most probably against Dany).



So, what do you think? A will of Stannis releasing Jon from the NW and declaring him his heir with bethrothing him to Shireen would be quite a thing.



I think it is clear that Jon Snow (or Jon Targaryen) would never accept Robb's Will even wthout the knowledge of the survival of Bran and Rickon. However, such a will from Stannis at a time when the Others will press very hard (perhaps even breaching the Wall) is not that easy to refuse.


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Mithras Council Member

Mithras

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Problem i see with it is that Jon is dead, and Winter is coming.

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: So why did you kill Jon Snow?

GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?

Well, I guess. Yes. That’s how I took it. The way it was written, it sounded like he was mortally wounded – and, you know, it’s you!

Well. I’m not going to address whether he’s dead or not.

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Mithras Council Member

Mithras

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Why wouldn't Jon accept Robb's will but would accept Stannis's?

I think the other way around would be more likely.

By the time Jon learns Robb's Will, he will most probably learn R+L=J. Moreover, Rickon is about to appear and Bran is likely to communicate with Jon as well. So, considering that Jon held the missing Sansa over himself, there is no way he can take Winterfell at that point.

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talvikorppi Noble

talvikorppi

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By the time Jon learns Robb's Will, he will most probably learn R+L=J. Moreover, Rickon is about to appear and Bran is likely to communicate with Jon as well. So, considering that Jon held the missing Sansa over himself, there is no way he can take Winterfell at that point.

There are actually so many assumptions that my head is spinning.

Firstly, the assumption that Jon isn't dead dead. :-)

Then the R+L=J thing and an assumption about the point in time it becomes known - and to whom.

This also assumes Robb's will isn't unequivocal in legitimizing Jon and declaring him Robb's heir - we don't know. As to Sansa, Jon considers her the heir to Winterfell before he knows anything about Robb's will.

I'm also a bit confused about a king's right (be it Robb or Stannis) to release anybody from NW vows. Would Jon break is vows in any case?

Assuming R+L=J, I can see how marrying Shireen to Jon might seem an attractive proposition to Stannis.

What about Shireen's greyscale? Val seems to think that she's "unclean", that greyscale never truly goes away.

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Mithras Council Member

Mithras

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I don't think it's clear that the North recognizes Stannis as having any royal authority over them. The Northerners fighting with him seem to function more as allies than as subjects. Robb was KitN without question so his will is law.

Jon specifically told Stannis to take Umber's fealty in front of their heart trees. It makes sense that Stannis took similar oaths from the mountain clans.

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Mithras Council Member

Mithras

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Why would Stannis marry Shireen to Jon if that ends the Baratheon line? Isn't it better to marry her to someone who isn't highranked so the Baratheon line can continue?

Baratheon legitimate line is in danger and Stannis will be fighting Dany at that time. So, he will be promoting Jon Targaryen as the true royal dynasty and marrying him to Shireen binds their lines forever.

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talvikorppi Noble

talvikorppi

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Jon specifically told Stannis to take Umber's fealty in front of their heart trees. It makes sense that Stannis took similar oaths from the mountain clans.

But the Umber who swore fealty to Stannis wasn't the lord, that's Greatjohn, who is a prisoner in the Twins (or released and on his way north). And the books don't tell us whether the mountain clans swore fealty to Stannis. Jon told Stannis to go softly with the mountain clans.

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Ice Turtle Council Member

Ice Turtle

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Of course there is no such thing as Stannis' Will as far as we know. However, it is possible that Stannis might write a similar will to that of Robb before going to a serious war (most probably against Dany).

So, what do you think? A will of Stannis releasing Jon from the NW and declaring him his heir with bethrothing him to Shireen would be quite a thing.

I think it is clear that Jon Snow (or Jon Targaryen) would never accept Robb's Will even wthout the knowledge of the survival of Bran and Rickon. However, such a will from Stannis at a time when the Others will press very hard (perhaps even breaching the Wall) is not that easy to refuse.

I toyed with the idea of Stannis naming or de facto making Jon his heir myself. Especially if he did it unaware of Robb's will. I am sure he won't do that while Shireen lives but what would he do if she died?

As for betrothal, I am not sure. It would make sense to do so when Stannis wanted to name Jon Lord of Winterfell, but when Stannis had made the offer he wanted Jon to marry Val. So he may have trouble with marrying his only daughter to a bastard, warg and ex watchman.

Where we disagree is that Jon would never accept Robb's will even if he doesn't know about Bran and Rickon. He would if the watch was no longer an option or if he needed to do it to fight the Others.

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Wavey Sauce Council Member

Wavey Sauce

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The Stannis will is him leaving to whomever to continue the war with all the new $ from the Iron Bank. Continue the cause and put Shireen on the throne. He also probably left Massey to get Asha as a bride and some other stuff like that. Just his closest followers/knights directing them what land or castle they get. Like Godfry the giant slayer etc


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Wavey Sauce Council Member

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But the Umber who swore fealty to Stannis wasn't the lord, that's Greatjohn, who is a prisoner in the Twins (or released and on his way north). And the books don't tell us whether the mountain clans swore fealty to Stannis. Jon told Stannis to go softly with the mountain clans.

He was/is the acting lord at the time due to Greatjohn being a prisoner and his son dead

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Balerion the kitten Council Member

Balerion the kitten

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Jon will need to accept Robb's will to get the North.

It will be a combination of Robb's Will and being Rhaegar's son that eventually puts him on the Throne.

I can accept him as Jon Targaryen, but I will literally burn my books if he sits the iron throne.

Of course there is no such thing as Stannis' Will as far as we know. However, it is possible that Stannis might write a similar will to that of Robb before going to a serious war (most probably against Dany).

Stannis is a lost cause. Doubt there will be anything more than a battle between the two, nothing like a serious war.
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Batbob45 Council Member

Batbob45

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What House Umber did did was smart


The old Umbers joined with Boltons but the young blood Umbers joined with Stannis on the bases that Umbers don't fight each other.



Stannis might be the one that does what Robert was going to do, reuniting Starks and Baratheons with his kid marrying Rickon if Davos find Rickon and is still alive.



Stannis already did a verbal will by saying who his men should fight for. It not a guarantee that his men would do it.


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