Nucky Thompson Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 This may not be exactly self-evident, but consider this: they both threaten to engulf their respective worlds in a red hegemony should they prevail; they are both utterly without mercy (needless to give the example of Stalin refusing to exchange his captured son for an enemy general); Stannis uses religion for his political ends without any real attachment to it (as did Stalin at the toughest moments of WWII); Stalin also endured a most dire siege successfully. And, finally, this forum has the conspicuous emoticon :commie: depicting emoji-GRRM in his favourite hat (also an interesting choice of hat in line with the above) holding a Soviet flag. While this is probably an exaggeration, I've read elsewhere about GRRM's leftist political views, which coupled with his anti-Vietnam-War stance makes him rather prone to include a Stalin-type figure in his magnum opus, doesn't it? With all that in mind, it seems that the numerous parallels between religions in ASoIaF and real-world religions have missed the point when it comes to R'hllor - his religion is actually communism (the Red God, duh) - and Melisandre's use of 'tricks' to convert unbelievers is rather similar to real-world communists for whom the end justifies the means and all that jibberish. Plus, Thoros of Myr literally leads a smallfolk uprising against the aristocracy, all the while rediscovering the Red God anew, not to mention the red priests of Volantis riling up the local slaves in a revolution of their own. What to make of Moqorro is another matter, and I would welcome suggestions on his role in the ASoIaF communism subplot. Given this insight, what could it all mean for the future development of Stannis' arc in TWoW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 No. Stalin was not a good general, manipulated his own war efforts, was a coward and cruel. He had a cool moustache compared to Stannis though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseHarrison Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 If you want a world leader that'd be like Stannis, it'd be Richard Nixon. Uncharismatic, serious, maligned, not a beacon of morality, and in the shadow of more beloved and charismatic individuals. but not a bad guy deep down and ultimately beneficial to the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Stannis uses religion for his political ends without any real attachment to it (as did Stalin at the toughest moments of WWII); Stalin also endured a most dire siege successfully. Stalin wasn't at Stalingrad during WW2, if that's what you meant. I like the communism / R'Hllor parallel you make, but not the Stannis / Stalin ones, they don't have much in common. If Stannis truly believed in R'Hllor then you could make a better Lenin parallel, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 A fair point, but consider that Stalin also underhandedly murdered his former associates (Trotsky) a la Renly. Stalin wasn't at Stalingrad during WW2, if that's what you meant. I like the communism / R'Hllor parallel you make, but not the Stannis / Stalin ones, they don't have much in common. If Stannis truly believed in R'Hllor then you could make a better Lenin parallel, I guess. Yeah, not personally, he also had the coward thing running for him, but I meant it on the level of his country. Plus, I don't think he left Moscow or it's vicinity, and 'Lord Tyrell' was about 50 miles away from there. Wouldn't in truth Lenin suit Melisandre better, with her unleashing the ghost of revolution to behead the government of her enemy? I'm not exactly an expert on Nixon (not from the USA), but from what I've heard, isn't he a more Roose-Bolton-ish type of character? (That's the guy eavesdropping on the opposition, right? And wasn't he the one with the 'Credible Madman' doctrine?) PS: The Stalingrad parallel is also interesting - Hitler wanted to take the otherwise-insignificant city named after the enemy dictator, while Aerys wanted to take the otherwise insignificant Storm's End for similar propaganda reasons. Plus, Stalingrad is where Hitler's 'storm' ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 A fair point, but consider that Stalin also underhandedly murdered his former associates (Trotsky) a la Renly. Lots of powerful people have underhandedly murdered their former associates throughout history, it doesn't mean much. Mankind is a querulous and ambitious lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordQorgyle Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Stannis would never refuse to pay to rescue is own son like that cold bastard that called himself Stalin did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 If you want a world leader that'd be like Stannis, it'd be Richard Nixon. Uncharismatic, serious, maligned, not a beacon of morality, and in the shadow of more beloved and charismatic individuals. but not a bad guy deep down and ultimately beneficial to the realm. This is a considerably more accurate comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 If you want a world leader that'd be like Stannis, it'd be Richard Nixon. Uncharismatic, serious, maligned, not a beacon of morality, and in the shadow of more beloved and charismatic individuals. but not a bad guy deep down and ultimately beneficial to the realm. Somehow, I don't imagine a line like "whenever he used to leave the White House, the Secret Service used to count the silverware" ever being written about Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Stannis would never refuse to pay to rescue is own son like that cold bastard that called himself Stalin did Well, he didn't refuse to pay, he said that a private (his son) isn't a good trade for a (German) general. I can totally imagine Stannis saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordQorgyle Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Well that doesn't change that he's a bastard...The guy pratically killed his own son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Well that doesn't change that he's a bastard...The guy pratically killed his own son Yeah, that's my problem with the R'hllor=Communism parallel - if it is true, then a fan favourite such as Stannis is actually serving the most evil ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitering Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Umm...I know Russians voted Stalin as one of the greatest Russians of all time recently, but that's for the ethnic groups he didn't wipe out. I really don't see Stannis going Stalin on, oh, let's say the Wildlings, or any other social or cultural group. Heck he doesn't even care what religion they are. So, he's Stalin because he killed his Usurper Brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 If you want a world leader that'd be like Stannis, it'd be Richard Nixon. He more like The male Thatcher. Both were unpopular, been compare to Iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser RoddyRuinuous Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I like the Stannis = Nixon comparison. Moreover, I would add to that the Renly = Kennedy corollary: Beloved by the people, surrounded by a beautiful court, died young, and not worth all that much at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I like the Stannis = Nixon comparison. Moreover, I would add to that the Renly = Kennedy corollary: Beloved by the people, surrounded by a beautiful court, died young, and not worth all that much at the end of the day.I like this comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitering Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Did Kennedy really do nothing? He did almost start a nuclear war, but then, that's kind of what Renly did to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser RoddyRuinuous Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Find the archives and read how f***ing stoned Kennedy was during the Cuban missile crisis. Like Renly, the man was well-meaning (to a certain extent) but completely useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Dagoghlor Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I cannot express how much I love the Stannis/Nixon, Renly/Kennedy parallels. I do agree though that GRRM's anti-religious sentiment is somewhat apparent in the books, but it doesn't really affect the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Agency of Sansa Stark Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Stannis' political orientation would extremely right wing and conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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