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Is Stannis the ASoIaF-Stalin?


Nucky Thompson

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The first syllable of Stannis' name is "Stan", which allows you to take the term "Stan the Man" and turn it into Stannis the Mannis.

Can you do that with Stalin? No. You end up with Stalin the Walin, which sounds like "wall in", which isn't cool at all. Therefore, Stannis is not the ASOIAF version of Stalin.

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This may not be exactly self-evident, but consider this: they both threaten to engulf their respective worlds in a red hegemony should they prevail; they are both utterly without mercy (needless to give the example of Stalin refusing to exchange his captured son for an enemy general); Stannis uses religion for his political ends without any real attachment to it (as did Stalin at the toughest moments of WWII); Stalin also endured a most dire siege successfully.

That's actually the most honorable thing a leader could do.

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The first syllable of Stannis' name is "Stan", which allows you to take the term "Stan the Man" and turn it into Stannis the Mannis.

Can you do that with Stalin? No. You end up with Stalin the Walin, which sounds like "wall in", which isn't cool at all. Therefore, Stannis is not the ASOIAF version of Stalin.

Stalin actually is a nickname (one from many Jugashvili used). Its stem is stal, the Russian word for steel. Not that far removed from Stannis "True Iron" Baratheon, if you think about it...

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Robert was the true steel. Stannis is brittle iron, at least according to the Night's Watch blacksmith.

Not "brittle" iron.

It's just that iron is too rigid so it breaks because it can't bend.

Iron bends a little and it's just the right amount of rigid.

Copper is pretty to look at but is actually of little value (Renly).

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This may not be exactly self-evident, but consider this: they both threaten to engulf their respective worlds in a red hegemony should they prevail; they are both utterly without mercy (needless to give the example of Stalin refusing to exchange his captured son for an enemy general); Stannis uses religion for his political ends without any real attachment to it (as did Stalin at the toughest moments of WWII); Stalin also endured a most dire siege successfully.

And, finally, this forum has the conspicuous emoticon :commie: depicting emoji-GRRM in his favourite hat (also an interesting choice of hat in line with the above) holding a Soviet flag. While this is probably an exaggeration, I've read elsewhere about GRRM's leftist political views, which coupled with his anti-Vietnam-War stance makes him rather prone to include a Stalin-type figure in his magnum opus, doesn't it?

With all that in mind, it seems that the numerous parallels between religions in ASoIaF and real-world religions have missed the point when it comes to R'hllor - his religion is actually communism (the Red God, duh) - and Melisandre's use of 'tricks' to convert unbelievers is rather similar to real-world communists for whom the end justifies the means and all that jibberish. Plus, Thoros of Myr literally leads a smallfolk uprising against the aristocracy, all the while rediscovering the Red God anew, not to mention the red priests of Volantis riling up the local slaves in a revolution of their own. What to make of Moqorro is another matter, and I would welcome suggestions on his role in the ASoIaF communism subplot.

Given this insight, what could it all mean for the future development of Stannis' arc in TWoW?

Some of this has foundation, other parts such as "actually communism (the Red God, duh).. forward are pretty much twisted to fit the premise, IMO

BUT, my reaction to the title of the thread, before I read the OP or any of the comments, fits the premise quite well I think.

(this is what I thought your point was going to be)

One way that Stannis is like Stalin is that the 'good guys' so far as the story's structure make them out to be are the Starks and their loyal bannermen.

This is beyond dispute - the Starks get 9 out of 10 POV chapters in GoT. Readers are led to sympathize with their cause.

So equate those to the western allies during WWII - The USA, Britain, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc.

Even though they knew Stalin to be a prick, and a potential threat in his own right, those allies welcomed the support of the USSR to fight the 3rd Reich.

Similarly, even though Stannis declares that he is no friend of Ned Stark, threatens to come after Robb once the Lannisters are dealt with and burns a leech to further his death, and even though he treats Jon as a vassal at The Wall, where he (Stannis) has no authority whatsoever -- in spite of all that, Jon welcomes Stannis' support in eliminating the Boltons and (hopefully) rescuing the girl that he (Jon) thinks is Arya.

That seems to me to be the one solid parallel between Stannis and Stalin. They're both pricks who nonetheless make useful temporary allies.

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Stannis' political orientation would extremely right wing and conservative.

I don't think you can make comparisons between what the characters in aSoIaF believe and modern politics. I mean, they all basically believe in feudalism, which no politician today really argues.

Also, Stannis isn't really all that conservative in general. In their society, birth determines rank. Stannis has hired and promoted people based on their skills rather than their birth. He has a former smuggler and a former slave (and a woman) as his main two advisors. And he's been ridiculed for it. He's actually going against the status quo of their society. Not really what I'd call conservative. Not that I think he's particularly liberal either.

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Stannis is not a mass murderer or one of the most evil people to walk this earth. Stalin was not a good general and never endured much of a siege he probably still lived in luxury, its the people around him who suffered just like during his corrupt cruel reign. Stannis is not evil however Stalin is.


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Roose seems to fit Stalin more than Stannis ever can.


-Low,soft voice,but harsh personality


-Known to be emotionless


-Known for torturing his political enemies


-Known for humiliating his son(Stalin mocked his son's attempted suicide/Roose's ''before you make me rue the day i rape your mother)


-Both killed people who had been previously allies of them


-"A peaceful land,a quiet people"


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Both Roose and Stannis lack his mighty facial hair.





Also, Stannis isn't really all that conservative in general. In their society, birth determines rank. Stannis has hired and promoted people based on their skills rather than their birth. He has a former smuggler and a former slave (and a woman) as his main two advisors. And he's been ridiculed for it. He's actually going against the status quo of their society. Not really what I'd call conservative. Not that I think he's particularly liberal either.




Yeah, I wouldn't call Stannis conservative at all when considering his contemporaries. Things like shunning the traditional religion, making a foreign priestess and rehabilitated lowborn smuggler his top councilors, largely despising most of the established elite, advocating a relatively open-border policy with the wildlings/giants, etc, are all quite progressive. In the conservative/religious right corner, he's a prude, but that's about it.


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Stalin really doesn't embody any leftist ideals, he was a pretty awful dictator who obliterated his own people to serve his needs and the "needs of the state." If you're saying that Martin is subtly trying to work in leftist ideas and what not, it definitely wouldn't be with Stalin parallels.



Furthermore, I don't see how Stannis can compare to bastardized communist dictatorship in terms of government. He's a monarchist, through and through. Compare him to medieval kings, in terms of personality maybe you can draw more modern comparisons. Still, even by those standards, he and Stalin don't match up at all.


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I don't think you can make comparisons between what the characters in aSoIaF believe and modern politics. I mean, they all basically believe in feudalism, which no politician today really argues.

Also, Stannis isn't really all that conservative in general. In their society, birth determines rank. Stannis has hired and promoted people based on their skills rather than their birth. He has a former smuggler and a former slave (and a woman) as his main two advisors. And he's been ridiculed for it. He's actually going against the status quo of their society. Not really what I'd call conservative. Not that I think he's particularly liberal either.

Yea I was just playin :cheers:

Also, the idea that "being conservative" is by default a negative just shows the laughable state of people's intelligence. There are pros and cons to both liberalism and conservatism.

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