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Is Stannis the ASoIaF-Stalin?


Nucky Thompson

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Well, he didn't refuse to pay, he said that a private (his son) isn't a good trade for a (German) general. I can totally imagine Stannis saying that.

His son was a lieutenant not a private and Stalin not only refused to trade him for Generalfeldmarschall Friedrich Paulus but also Leo Raubal JR who was a low ranking soldier but also Hitlers nephew.

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No, but the parralells are not accidental, either. Stalin was a monster through and through, whereas Stannis' journey is one of being at risk of "embracing the monster" despite your generally better nature, he may be a better person than, say, Roose Bolton, but he's done things Roose wouldn't as well. But I think, much like Boromir, he'll come out with a win in this regard eventually, I am just enjoying the ride.


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Boromir does remind me of Stannis a bit, especially regarding their decisions with the Ring and the stone dragon.



- Both are pushed into it by a general sense of hopelessness. Boromir being forced to watch his kingdom decline, and then the council deciding to enact a seemingly suicidal plan, and Stannis feeling unable to achieve anything with his almost nonexistent army come ASOS.


- Both hold out initially but give in as things get more dire. Boromir watching the fellowship turn to shit, Stannis watching Melisandre's magic become more undeniable.


- Both wonder at what they could achieve. Boromir musing on how all people would flock to his side and how he would destroy Mordor, Stannis speculating on how impressed westeros would be to hear dragon wings again and how he would punish those who made the kingdom bleed.


- Both do give in, fail for one reason or another, yet soon redeem that decision by defending some Good Guys and acknowledging their error.


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Burning people alive and removing genitals of accused rapists seems a little much even for Stalin.

Mind you, I don't think the Bolsheviks were all monsters, but what they did during the October Revolution surpasses what Stannis ever did, boiling members of the clergy alive comes to mind.

And Stalin was considered to be too extreme by Lenin, that shows how brutal and over-the-top the man was.

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Stalin:



- Paranoid.


- Cautious.


- Bureaucratic.


- Opportunistic.


- Manipulative practitioner of realpolitik.


- Aware of the importance of PR.



Roose Bolton is an infinitely better fit for Stalin than Stannis, who is idealistic and couldn't manipulate his way out of a paper bag.


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Mind you, I don't think the Bolsheviks were all monsters, but what they did during the October Revolution surpasses what Stannis ever did, boiling members of the clergy alive comes to mind.

And Stalin was considered to be too extreme by Lenin, that shows how brutal and over-the-top the man was.

Wasn't that Trotskey? He was the leader of the red army during the revolution. No doubt Stalin was brutal and Lenin didn't like Stalin, but not because he was too brutal.

I have no love for the man of steel (except Clark Kent) but he did defeat Hitler, and his troops were the ones who kicked down the doors of the concentration camps. That is not empty praise.

Stannis wars against evil now, to kick down the doors of winterfell saving many, but fighting in stalingrad conditions.

I could dig this comparison.

Sylyse and Stalin is more apt... if Stalin grew his stash out another few inches

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Wasn't that Trotskey? He was the leader of the red army during the revolution. No doubt Stalin was brutal and Lenin didn't like Stalin, but not because he was too brutal.

I have no love for the man of steel (except Clark Kent) but he did defeat Hitler, and his troops were the ones who kicked down the doors of the concentration camps. That is not empty praise.

Stannis wars against evil now, to kick down the doors of winterfell saving many, but fighting in stalingrad conditions.

I could dig this comparison.

Sylyse and Stalin is more apt... if Stalin grew his stash out another few inches

Stalin killed more people than Hitler, ultimately. Plus he only managed to defeat Germany with a lot of help from the west.

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Wasn't that Trotskey? He was the leader of the red army during the revolution. No doubt Stalin was brutal and Lenin didn't like Stalin, but not because he was too brutal.

I have no love for the man of steel (except Clark Kent) but he did defeat Hitler, and his troops were the ones who kicked down the doors of the concentration camps. That is not empty praise.

Stannis wars against evil now, to kick down the doors of winterfell saving many, but fighting in stalingrad conditions.

I could dig this comparison.

Sylyse and Stalin is more apt... if Stalin grew his stash out another few inches

Trotsky was the one leading the Red Army, yes, but the point is that even the head of the Communist party thought Koba would go too far.

Also, nothing inherently good about fighting monsters if you do it for selfish reasons... Pretty sure Stalin would have been content to split Eastern Europe with the Third Reich if Hitler hadn't broken truce and attacked him. Also, say what you want about Dolfie, but despite being an evil genocidal maniac, he truly seemed to care about ethnic Germans and Austrians, while Stalin, on the other hand, committed atrocities against his own people.

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Never heard of his Gulags?

It's important to remind of these! Yet, although cruelty and inhumanity may count for both Stalin and the R'hllor-fundamentalists, the comparison seems to be quite farfetched.

Stalin was a totalitaristic dictator, although beginning as one of the leaders of a social upheaval. He tried to rule every inch of society - pretending to free society (from monarchy/birth-right btw).

Stannis wants to rule by birth-right, he is an absolutistic monarch. He is quite ignorant of society (compare it to Dany) - still he is pretending to bring justice upon people. Ultimately he is trying to restore a "natural order".

It's not easy to find modern politicians that are comparable to characters in the books, since there is not truely a comparable historic situation (at least non, that I know of): They just have to deal with different problems. And Stannis, of course, is extremely succesful for having been defeated. Maybe we can compare him to Napoleon with caution.

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Stannis would never refuse to pay to rescue is own son like that cold bastard that called himself Stalin did

Well if you think about it, their general was a whole lot more valuable to the Germans than Stalin's som was to the Russians, so that's actually a pragmatic decision taking into account the good of the Russian people as a whole instead of just himself

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Stalin killed more people than Hitler, ultimately. Plus he only managed to defeat Germany with a lot of help from the west.

I'm not sure of the numbers, but killing czarists, cossacks and nazis won't cause me to shed a tear. He went beyond that, killed all potential enemies and worked his men past death, but that doesn't compare to nazism. If Stalin didn't press into Germany the West would not take Berlin, or the camps in the east.

Trotsky was the one leading the Red Army, yes, but the point is that even the head of the Communist party thought Koba would go too far.

Also, nothing inherently good about fighting monsters if you do it for selfish reasons... Pretty sure Stalin would have been content to split Eastern Europe with the Third Reich if Hitler hadn't broken truce and attacked him. Also, say what you want about Dolfie, but despite being an evil genocidal maniac, he truly seemed to care about ethnic Germans and Austrians, while Stalin, on the other hand, committed atrocities against his own people.

But Trotsky would go just as far, both of them were Leninists. No reason to think Trotsky or an immortal Lenin wouldn't build gulags.

I disagree, fighting nazis is good because it's the opposite of evil. I don't know who this Dolfie is, but if it's a nazi he's scum and a terrible ruler. The jews, gypsys, etc are all German and Austrian and have been for generations.

Hitler was bound to attack Russia. He came into power because of anti communnism. An attack was eminent, Stalin would be forced to strike eventually, global communism and all

I still think I'm right, with Stoneheart being Stalin. Only a matter of time before Thoros gets capped in mexico

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Yesterday I came across another historical parallel between real-world history and Planetos: there was an article about the Russian tzar Alexander (I think) who repelled Napoleon's invasion, and then marched on to Vienna 'to bring about order and set things straight in Europe'. That does seem strikingly similar to Cregan Stark's short rule in King's Landing during the Dance of the Dragons where he sentences people left and right and brings order to the state of affairs, despite the eventual failure of his plans to 'punish' lords Hightower... and Baratheon (was it?).



With that in mind, while Stannis and Stalin aren't similar in all aspects, we can't deny that GRRM has worked in certain parallels from history into his magnum opus - and the frozen lake situation that Stannis is currently in, does awfully remind of Alexander Nevsky's battle on the ice (surprise, surprise - more Russian history there).


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A historical parallel I could see is King Philip the Fair, nicknamed "the Iron King". He had the leaders of the Templars burned (and de Molay was his daughter's godfather, they used to be buddies) and generally didn't fuck around. He was the one who brought the popes to Avignon and installed a French pope.


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Can't see that. Stannis, for all his faults, is not a monster who randomly kills people for fabricated reasons. And some of his speeches:




I shall bring justice to Westeros. A thing Ser Axell understands as little as he does war. Claw Isle would gain me naught . . . and it was evil, just as you said. Celtigar must pay the traitor's price himself, in his own person. And when I come into my kingdom, he shall. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. And some will lose more than the tips off their fingers, I promise you. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that.



give the impression that he actually wants to put an effort into bettering the realm, which is more than it could be said for comrade Joseph.


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Stalin was a cruel man who wanted to expand Soviet Russia by waging wars with lies as excuses. There was propaganda that Soviet troops were sending food for poor finns freezing in their huts. That's why their mortar grenades were called "bread baskets", and because of course you had to have something to drink while eating, finnish soldiers named their burning bottle Molotov's (Soviet union's foreign minister) coktail.

Meanwhile Stannis doesn't step on those who are not serving his cause. But he crushes those who oppose him. Stannis protects the kingdom and the people of it. So no, Stannis is not Stalin.

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I like a parallel to a point, but I do not believe we can apply it fully. Stalin was not an unsuccessful successor of Lenin. He was very successful indeed. Stalin had a good sense of humour and loved to party with Gypsies. Stalin also studied theology. While he was killing millions, he did force an industrial revolution in a record time, sent the first satellite into space and won the Second World War. So, he resembles some Valyrian dragon lord winning over Ghiscari empire more than Stannis. I said it before and I will say it again. Stannis is that man in the office who always gets the job done, but never goes to the pub with the gang on Friday night. And he always gets passed over for promotion. Until one day ... Does not sound like Stalin, does it?


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