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The Night's King's Possible Origins [Pitting All Hints Together]


Blazfemur

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So there were these two brothers, right? The King In The North, and his younger brother. This is years and years after The Long Night and has nothing to do with it. The debacle with the Barrow King Dustin happens, and the Barrow King awards his daughter to the King In The North. The younger brother falls for her. She falls for him. The King In The North finds out, perhaps even catching them in the act (pregnancy/Stark line descent??).



Unable to kill his own brother and be named kinslayer, The King In The North sends his younger brother to the wall (with his direwolf), where he earns himself a place. Winter comes. The weather gets harsh, food grows scarce, and the Others begin to show themselves. The watch's numbers are dwindling, and in a desperate life or death attempt, young Stark offers and volunteers to go out in search of the children of the forest, knowing he may not return. The watch rejoice, and exclaim that he's the last hero among us, all we have left.



Younger Stark, the last hero, travels in search of the children, on horseback, with 12 other brothers, and his direwolf (dog). They all fall, one by one, and eventually, The Others find him and descend on him. About to die, he offers a desperate brokering of peace. The Others, kill him not, but listen to what he has to say. They strike a bargain, perhaps even bestow upon him the Ice Gift (as it can be transferred, apparently), or perhaps even give him a blade of their own to solidify this fragile pact (Ice).



Younger Stark returns, and he is commended for his actions, the attacks would have stopped, and name him, the 13th Lord Commander and thus, his reign begins. 13 years passes. But something always bothered 13th Lord Commander Stark, now wielding Ice. What became of that Barrow King's daughter? She's married his brother, The King In The North, maybe they even have a child thats 13 by now with questionable parentage. Daughter of a Barrow King, hmm. If Sansa Stark came into power, her nickname or monicker might be the "wolf queen." Daenerys, perhaps would be known as the "Dragon Queen/Mad Dragon Queen." What would a Barrow King's daughter's monicker be? I wouldn't think it so outrageous to believe "Corpse Queen" would be a great monicker for the daughter of a Barrow King.



13th Lord Commander Stark leaves the watch and ventures southward, perhaps to see the woman he fell for, or, his potential child. The watch have been fighting off wildlings for years at this point, and when The King In The North finds out his exiled brother is blatantly disobeying his exile and making a return, the King and King Beyond The Wall form a temporary alliance to smash the 13th Lord Commander when he arrives. It works out for the King In The North, as his family and lands wouldnt be threatened by his brother any longer, and it helps The King Beyond The Wall because getting rid of a Lord Commander that's been a thorn in their side for years is just too good to pass up.



The 13th Lord Commander is overwhelmed by the joined forces, his forces fail, this is where winter fell, but slips away. This causes a rift in the Night's Watch, as it makes them look absolutely TERRIBLE. It also sully's the Stark name, the actions of a former Stark-turned-Lord Commander that should have abandoned his previous life. The King In The North and the Night's Watch make an agreement: exile his younger brother from the Watch, to meet a fate worse than instant-death execution, and strike his name from the records. He will live out the rest of his life on his own, without any faction to help him. The watch strikes his name from their records, in accordance with The King In The North's request, keeping the Stark name clean, and they villainize the 13th Lord Commander, twisting the tale to make them seem the protagonist. "He forswore his vows," "slept with the Corpse Queen (who may just have blue eyes, pale complexion, maybe even albino like Bloodraven)."



The 13th Lord Commander ventures north, beyond the wall, and into the darkness, taking with him his blade, Ice, which is not in fact lost, but being wielded by him. He joins the only faction left that would have him ("I forged a pact with you, and I intend to keep it" mentality), and vows vengeance on those that have wronged him. Vows to break past the wall, smash the watch that betrayed him and his name, and go to Winterfell once more, perhaps it's crypts, where the Barrow King's daughter, Queen Dustin, (perhaps even their own child) is buried.



And he shall be named, The Night's King, woe to those that stand before him. Ever-living, immortal, he still serves his Night's Oath, taking Craster's babies, fathering none, taking only the boys, so there are no women or females to marry, and living as an outcast, nomadic, ever moving for Winterfell, holding no lands. Loving, and laying with, the Corpse Queen, before he swore his vows (technically).



All this is speculation until proven Otherwise, but it humanizes the story, supports that there are in fact no such thing as female Others (dont get yourself in a bunch, the nonexistence of a female Other is also just speculation), and that everything else was Night's Watch heresay as there is no one to contradict anything.



This supports TLH=TNK, as a Stark, and also where the original Ice is located (in his grasp to this day). This doesnt take into consideration BtB by itself.



This would also make 13th Lord Commander a Neverborn, if youre familiar with the terminology.



Points of note:


Old Nan - "All crows are liars."



"There was once nobility in the watch."



Bran thought old nan was confused -- she always called everyone in her stories Bran. (This implies the stories of the last hero, and the night's king, but may also hint at bran the builder)



Lady Dustin's interest in descending the Winterfell crypts with Theon (possible ancestry)



Per Barbrey Dustin wiki:



Before leaving the crypts, Barbrey and Theon discover that swords are missing from the tombs, including that of Brandon Stark, her lover from her youth. (Possible symbolic postshadowing??? A Lady Dustin, and a Stark, and a missing sword.......sound familiar????)


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This is excellent. At first I thought it was a bit fanfiction-ish, but it really does make sense. Regardless, it's an interesting read.

to be technical, all the relevant facts are from text, the parts in between that link the facts at this moment are technically fan-fiction until otherwise written.

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The thing is, we really dont have much written on the subject, and literally the only information we do have on the nights king is LITERALLY heresay, because all record of him were purposely destroyed, remember?


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meh Ice being the ancestral sword of the Starks makes it seem like it would have been passed down from king to king not held by an exiled Stark from the NW.



Also I seriously doubt the King in the North and the king beyond the wall would need to combine forced to deal with the NW, at that point in time the NW had what maybe 1000 members compared to the King of the North who could easily command 20,000 quickly.



For 2 kings on different sides of the wall to come together, there would need to be a serious threat to both sides. Maybe the 13th Lord Commander aka the Nights King planned on letting the Others through the wall? It means the wildlings would be slaughtered along the way as the Others descent on the wall, now that seems like a pretty serious threat at the time.


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meh Ice being the ancestral sword of the Starks makes it seem like it would have been passed down from king to king not held by an exiled Stark from the NW.

Also I seriously doubt the King in the North and the king beyond the wall would need to combine forced to deal with the NW, at that point in time the NW had what maybe 1000 members compared to the King of the North who could easily command 20,000 quickly.

For 2 kings on different sides of the wall to come together, there would need to be a serious threat to both sides. Maybe the 13th Lord Commander aka the Nights King planned on letting the Others through the wall? It means the wildlings would be slaughtered along the way as the Others descent on the wall, now that seems like a pretty serious threat at the time.

while possible, and certainly coincides with my thoughts on Jon being a mirror-image scenario of the night's king, as thats exactly what he tried to do witht he wildlings, the thing is, winter fell, at Winterfell. Does it mention Others were a part of The Night's King's forces when he descended on Winterfell?

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while possible, and certainly coincides with my thoughts on Jon being a mirror-image scenario of the night's king, as thats exactly what he tried to do witht he wildlings, the thing is, winter fell, at Winterfell. Does it mention Others were a part of The Night's King's forces when he descended on Winterfell?

That is tough to answer but we can strongly assume that NW brothers could allow the Others to pass the wards of the wall and if the Nights King was associating with the Others, it is in the realm of possibility that Others were with him and may have brought the cold with them.

Hopefully Winds of Winter bring in more details of the Nights King's past because when 2 kings make a truce to fight a common enemy, you know some serious shit is going down!

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That is tough to answer but we can strongly assume that NW brothers could allow the Others to pass the wards of the wall and if the Nights King was associating with the Others, it is in the realm of possibility that Others were with him and may have brought the cold with them.

Hopefully Winds of Winter bring in more details of the Nights King's past because when 2 kings make a truce to fight a common enemy, you know some serious shit is going down!

This is my focal point of how the night's king isn't effected by any magic the wall is assumed to generate. He can just walk on through, right now, if he wanted to.

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Wait... maybe I'm missing some common details that others are already aware of. According to the writings of Archmaester Harmune, the King of Winter who fought the Night's King was himself named Brandon the Breaker. So, why would the Night's King, potentially his brother, also be named Bran?


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Wait... maybe I'm missing some common details that others are already aware of. According to the writings of Archmaester Harmune, the King of Winter who fought the Night's King was himself named Brandon the Breaker. So, why would the Night's King, potentially his brother, also be named Bran?

your confusion is in my own confusion - this is a compilation of ideas ive shared over the course of many threads, many threads that contain the TLH=TNK=BtB idea (going into how the wall itself was erected by Others, as it is blatantly ice-dominant in it's construction). I tried to make this thread separate from that, and as such yeah, im going to alter the original post to exclude the name Bran, while maintaining the Stark name.

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your confusion is in my own confusion - this is a compilation of ideas ive shared over the course of many threads, many threads that contain the TLH=TNK=BtB idea (going into how the wall itself was erected by Others, as it is blatantly ice-dominant in it's construction). I tried to make this thread separate from that, and as such yeah, im going to alter the original post to exclude the name Bran, while maintaining the Stark name.

Yeah, your earlier threads about the possibility of Bran the Builder being the Night's King were really interesting. They're actually what got me interested in this forum in the first place. I've been trying to sort out the references in the text since.

I struggle with the notion that Bran the Builder was involved. Runic records from the First Men suggest that the war between the Kings of Winter and the Barrow Kings, dubbed the Thousand Years War, was actually a series of wars that lasted closer to two hundred years, ending when the last Barrow King bent his knee to the King of Winter and gave him the hand of his daughter in marriage. Two hundred years or more is conceivable for the Night's King to have been the 13th Lord Commander. Though it had been at least two centuries since Bran the Builder founded house Stark, I suppose he might have still been alive if he were a greenseer also and extended his life in a weirwood throne. I'm still in the midst of sorting everything out though.

Also I seriously doubt the King in the North and the king beyond the wall would need to combine forced to deal with the NW, at that point in time the NW had what maybe 1000 members compared to the King of the North who could easily command 20,000 quickly.

Could Brandon the Breaker really have rallied 20,000 soldiers so quickly though? The Kings of Winter and the Barrow Kings would have been warring each other for 200 years. It's conceivable that the northern forces were considerably depleted after such a long series of wars. Both Old Nan and Archmaester Harmune tell the story that the King of Winter joined forces with Joramun to take down the Night's King, so his involvement is suggested by two different unrelated sources.

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It means "too long didn't read". But the poster felt obligated to let everyone know his/her laziness.

lmao hahahaha

Yeah, your earlier threads about the possibility of Bran the Builder being the Night's King were really interesting. They're actually what got me interested in this forum in the first place. I've been trying to sort out the references in the text since.

I struggle with the notion that Bran the Builder was involved. Runic records from the First Men suggest that the war between the Kings of Winter and the Barrow Kings, dubbed the Thousand Years War, was actually a series of wars that lasted closer to two hundred years, ending when the last Barrow King bent his knee to the King of Winter and gave him the hand of his daughter in marriage. Two hundred years or more is conceivable for the Night's King to have been the 13th Lord Commander. Though it had been at least two centuries since Bran the Builder founded house Stark, I suppose he might have still been alive if he were a greenseer also and extended his life in a weirwood throne. I'm still in the midst of sorting everything out though.

Could Brandon the Breaker really have rallied 20,000 soldiers so quickly though? The Kings of Winter and the Barrow Kings would have been warring each other for 200 years. It's conceivable that the northern forces were considerably depleted after such a long series of wars. Both Old Nan and Archmaester Harmune tell the story that the King of Winter joined forces with Joramun to take down the Night's King, so his involvement is suggested by two different unrelated sources.

I want to avoid Brandon The Builder cross-theories from coming here, that much could be theorized later, and in other threads (as ive already done lmao). This is simply just an attempt to reconcile many ideas, combine what we know, and attempt to fill in the blanks. This progression, works for me, out of the VERY little we know about what happened. A simple TLH=TNK, and backstory to match, before integrating BtB into the whole midst.

If the events I put together and mentioned were at all accurate, its VERY possible the current Stark line has not only first men blood, they also have Dustin's blood, AND MAY be descended from the Night's King himself, depending on how the circumstance played itself out. Who's to say it's The King Of The North's child that kept the line going? Maybe TNK impregnated the Corpse Queen, and it's THEIR child, that carried the current Stark line.

This of course is only taking into consideration if any of this whole thing is at all accurate.

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What are you basing any of this on exactly? because I read your OP and it literally read like you just took a few bits of text from the books and strung a story together based on nothing at all that relates to that text. i mean literally you just made a bunch of stuff up and called it a theory. That is not a theory that is fan fiction.


What do you use to back up your suppositions? what other aspects of the story or history or folklore are there which allude to what you have imagined? What hints are in the text, is there anything at all to base this on?

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