[Book Spoilers] EP504 Discussion

[Red Tiger]

I was disappointed in how easy the Unsullied were to kill. The Unsullied are supposed to be legendary badasses.

They're supposed to be soldiers, not warriors, big difference. The circumstances in which they were killed are highly disadvantageous for soldiers.

[Rickeen Stark]

Do you think they'll be sending Jaime to Starfall at some point... why else send him to Dorne?

[Red Tiger]

We don't know if Dorkstar will appear, so *shrugs*.

Sadly, its pretty obvious what's coming. Brienne is going to kill Stannis, which obviously, is rather bad for Stannis, but its also going to completely blow up LF's plans to use Stannis to liberate and install Sansa there. Poor Sansa may end up stuck with Ramsay for a while.

Won't happen, If Brienne kills Stannis before the Boltons fall the show will become too dark and viewers will give up on it, D&D don't have the balls. Sure they kill off more people than in the books, but all the extra kill-offs are minor guys (Sorry Barry, but...you played a MUCH smaller role in the show).

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

They're supposed to be soldiers, not warriors, big difference. The circumstances in which they were killed are highly disadvantageous for soldiers.

I beg to differ. They're supposed to be soldiers, not warriors; they acted like warriors, not soldiers. No coordination, every man for himself.

[Weeping Sore]

So with Barristan gone and no foreshadowing of unrest from the other conquered cities, I doubt we'll see the Battle of Mereen on the show (though I suppose if Dany's still in Mereen in S6 it could happen, but more likely it's back to rounding up the Dothraki).

Stannis looks like he's being set up for failure...though I doubt Brienne will be the one to do him in. Maybe Mel guarantees victory at Winterfell if he will burn Shireen, he doesn't go for it, then the snows set in...

[The Eunuch]

LF now known as GOD.

He must know EVERYTHING!

All hail GOD LF!

That's ridiculous, you know? No need to be god to know about the Harrenhal Tourney, it's an historic event that was the beginning of the war...

[The Lizard King]

I'll be back next week to explain why the show has sucked since season 2 and the books are better. Bring on the downvotes!

There are downvotes?

[boojam]

So with Barristan gone and no foreshadowing of unrest from the other conquered cities, I doubt we'll see the Battle of Mereen on the show (though I suppose if Dany's still in Mereen in S6 it could happen, but more likely it's back to rounding up the Dothraki).

From the published chapters of Winds of Winter it seems the breaking of the siege of Meereen is bringing together a bunch of arcs now not clear how they are going to do that without the siege.

[Sir Bronn]

Barristan has been resurected by Thoros.I saw him in the coffe https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/s306x306/e15/11078574_1061281473885454_223791202_n.jpg

[Greywolf2375]

LF now known as GOD.

He must know EVERYTHING!

All hail GOD LF!

Well, LF's strength has always been that he gathers information and uses it to his advantage. He has people placed where no one would expect him to have resources....so from the standpoint of knowledge, yes...he comes as close to anyone to "knowing everything".

[A spoon of knife and fork]

So much forshadowing in Stannis storyline....Brienne on her way towards him (Winterfell), talking about avenging Renly, now that scene with his daughter to make him more likeable to the show audience, LF talking about him being a safe bet with superior army and being the best commander.

This doesnt look good for him, the bookmakers also have him first to die next as one of the major characters. The question only is how, will it be by Brienne or does he die against the Boltons?

I really really really really hope they are just doing all this to make the Pink Letter as painful as possible. The reason the Pink Letter was so shocking and dreadful in the books was because by this point you are so 100% behind Stannis... so the idea Ramsey killed him and took Lightbringer is beyond infuriating.

In any case whether Stephen Dillane is in the next season is going to be kept tightly under wraps...

[My friend Alayne Arya mad]

Barristan forgot how to put on armor or how to be cautious in a city full of unrest, the sand snakes forgot how to act, and the unsullied forgot they have short swords...which is not that surprising as , with the exception of Grey Worm, they also forgot how to fight.

[Bud RR Martin]

They're supposed to be soldiers, not warriors, big difference. The circumstances in which they were killed are highly disadvantageous for soldiers.

Yes, highly trained, shielded, and spear armed soldiers will always lose to dagger yielding former slave masters.

[Janicia]

I wonder if Varys is going to be mia for the rest of the season and then pop up in the finale.

I’m pretty sure Cersei told Meryn Trant to make sure Mace has an accident in Bravos, and Arya is going to interrupt that. Which makes a certain amount of sense – Trant is going to have to get away from the rest of the escort in order to make his move on Mace; which in turn will make Trant vulnerable to Arya. I’m very curious if the show is committed to the repercussions of political assassination causing diplomatic fiasco in Bravos and will slot that into the story going forward, or if it will be downplayed.

I had assumed Sansa would talk to Theon in the crypts, but I enjoyed that Sansa / Littlefinger scene. Still really looking forward to Sansa interacting with Theon.

Both Littlefinger and Jaime were tasked with expository dialogue to explain the logic of their deviations from their book story arcs. I’m becoming more convinced that Bronn is probably toast. Shame!

Sand snakes didn’t really work for me. But it is hasty to judge them on one scene.

I wondered if Melissandre was responsible for saving Shireen, as others speculated upthread. But if so, you’d think Melissandre might have mentioned that during her season 4 heart-to-heart with Shireen. Or Stannis might have said that in his scene this episode to explain to Shireen why he believes in Melissandre. And Selyse would probably like Shireen more if Shireen was an example of the Lord of Light’s miraculous power. So… probably not.

It was nice to see Tyrion being both clever and well-informed.

Seemed like Melissandre wanted to make a shadow baby, probably to kill Roose. And she definitely has thoughts on what to do with Shireen’s blood. :( I like the speculation upthread that Sam and Gilly abscond with Shireen. I hope they do! That would actually be a callback to Gilly’s plea to Sam and Jon in season 2, and again it would be Sam who focuses on rescuing the damsel while Jon is more focused on the bigger picture.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Janicia

[JonSnowed]

I'm really excited because I think they are going to confirm R + L = J this season:-)

[Weeping Sore]

From the published chapters of Winds of Winter it seems the breaking of the siege of Meereen is bringing together a bunch of arcs now not clear how they are going to do that without the siege.

Doesn't it seem like some of these arcs are being severely altered or eliminated, though?

[bb1180]

Yes, highly trained, shielded, and spear armed soldiers will always lose to dagger yielding former slave masters.

In the circumstances they found themselves, they'd probably lose as often as they won. Historically, the way to beat an army so armed was to break up the formation, attack from multiple angles and isolate individual soldiers or small groups of soldiers. This is why the phalanx style of warfare fell out of favor.

I don't know if the show was aiming for historical accuracy in that depiction, but a small unit of spear infantry, in close quarters, outnumbered and surrounded was in serious trouble.

Edited May 4, 2015 by bb1180

[cgf]

When 10 men can grab you, you're not gunna be doing your best soldiering in tight quarters.

[Roose is Azor Ahai]

In the books, Tyrion thinks that he will kill Jaime, though his feelings are mixed. Jaime doesn't know how he would react but states that he would've killed Tyrion if he had known about his intentions to murder Tywin.

In the show, there is no Tysha and the Lannister brothers part ways in warm way. Tyrion thinks warmly of Jaime but Jaime wants to kill Tyrion.

So in the books: Tyrion wants to kill Jaime, there is going to be fight when they meet

In the show: Jaime wants to kill Tyrion, there is going to be fight when they meet

Feels like Tyrion whitewash.

[zaafsta]

In the books, Tyrion thinks that he will kill Jaime, though his feelings are mixed. Jaime doesn't know how he would react but states that he would've killed Tyrion if he had known about his intentions to murder Tywin.

In the show, there is no Tysha and the Lannister brothers part ways in warm way. Tyrion thinks warmly of Jaime but Jaime wants to kill Tyrion.

So in the books: Tyrion wants to kill Jaime, there is going to be fight when they meet

In the show: Jaime wants to kill Tyrion, there is going to be fight when they meet

Feels like Tyrion whitewash.

This is exactly what I came to talk about when I clicked on this thread.

I thought when Jaime said "The next time I see him, I will split him in two" in this episode, it was bizarre. Well maybe that's because I'm a book reader but regardless, both on the show and in the books, I would believe that Jaime would understand WHY Tyrion did it, reason being he always copped shit from his dad, who himself wanted Tyrion dead ever since he was born! So I thought Jaime would have understood Tyrion's actions. I mean in the books Jaime isn't portrayed as, "I didn't tell him about Tysha, and now he kills father, I guess we're even' OR 'He killed father, I want him dead". So as I was reading, I had the impression that Jaime understood WHY he did it.

In the show, he also isn't portrayed of wanting to kill Tyrion UNTIL the very moment he said that, so it kind of came out of nowhere.... I mean like, he didn't express his anger earlier when with Cersei or anything..