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[Book Spoilers] EP504 Discussion

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Barristan is dead. It's been confirmed.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/01/ser-barristan-dead-thrones

Sigh. Mance dying didn't bother me a bit but this hurts. I can see why they did it...Jorah and Tyrion will be taking his place. Ser Barristan only became a POV because GRRM needed a set of eyes in Meereen once Dany flies off with Drogon.

It still bums me out big time.

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Can we stop seeing Carice Van Houten naked? I am sick of seering her pale behind naked . . . we get it . . .. she's hot to trot for R'hllor . . . keep your clothes on and do something other than look mean.

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Can we stop seeing Carice Van Houten naked? I am sick of seering her pale behind naked . . . we get it . . .. she's hot to trot for R'hllor . . . keep your clothes on and do something other than look mean.

I must disagree strongly.

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I'm not sure if the episode bothered me because I have to accept it is another show, or I really didn't think it was good episode.I see some of the threads from the books streamlined and coming together, but to have Ser Barristan go out that way? I was yelling at the screen when the fight broke out, as I thought the Unsullied were unstoppable? I thought we were going to see some serious badass moves;even if Ser Barristan old.

Disappointed about what's happening in Dorne, and I'm okay with he Faith Militant because it will bite Cersei in the ass. I did not like the Jaime/Bronn stuff on the beach, and I loved Stannis! but i do need a rematch

I now accept that the show (from this season on) is not based on the books only inspired by them.

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I think Selyse will sacrifice Shireen if theres a Pink Letter..she'll do it thinking a sacrifice of royal blood will help Stannis


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Can we stop seeing Carice Van Houten naked? I am sick of seering her pale behind naked . . . we get it . . .. she's hot to trot for R'hllor . . . keep your clothes on and do something other than look mean.

No. No we can not.

-Signed the world.

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So the Rhaegar the singing minstrel story was to drive home how much of not a rapist he was? After Sansa's comments in the crypts? Can we really expect non-readers to pick up on these things?

LF did shoot her a look like "come on..nobody believes Robert's and Ned's BS story..." Of course, it would serve no purpose for him to challenge her thinking on that.

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This strays from the books so much...


but I thought Sir Barristan was marked to die from the sample chapter when he decides to ride Danys's Silver but this was just lame Poor guy He was as much a romantic as Sansa


hate how they amp up the soundtrack to get you to feel the passion and action


Littlefinger leaves Sansa for a weekend getaway to Kings Landing?? well Ramsay will entertain her I'm sure


until Stannis gets


forget get Varys little birds


It's a Feast for Sparrows :wideeyed:


alot of fodder for Qyburns projects



If Winter is Coming and we saw the white raven announcing that summer is over why isn't it Autumn yet ?


Bronn and jaime's Club Dorne trip isn't off to a good start


Bronn is a goner on this mission


If Keven comes back to KL,will Littlefinger be the man behind the crossbow/


forgot Varys may fly over now that Tyrion isn't around


i WONDER what Cersei is getting for Mothers Day?? :dunno:

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I don't understand why everyone loves this Stannis and Shireen scene. Stannis would never say that stuff, he never even talks to Shireen.

have you read Stannis or Shireen POV chapters that I haven't found in any of the books ?

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Hey all! Back this week to tell you why this episode sucked:


-I like how Bronn just perfectly spells out why Jaime's Dorne adventure plot makes no goddamned sense. Just bring Bronn and 40 men indeed! It doesn't have to be Jaime. There's no reason for any of this to take place from a logical standpoint. D&D set up the counter argument but offer no debunking of it. How stupid do they think we are?


-Jaime threatening to kill Tyrion and flat-out hating him. The conflicting nature of Jaime in the books about this is gone. First the show makes him a rapist, now this. Are they determined to ruin Jaime's redemption arc?


-The whole Iron Bank Mace Tyrell deal. Holyyyyy shit, this is fucking stupid and makes no sense. Mace Tyrell is the Lord of Highgarden and the strongest man in Westeros at this point. Why is he doing this? Doesn't Mace have a war to be fighting? Have D&D forgotten that a war still needs to be fought? Why does he have to go when the job is clearly beneath him and he's too busy elsewhere? Why is Trant acting as his escort and not Highgarden men? He has no reason to obey Cersei and no reason to be doing this, especially since the Iron Bank itself sends envoys all over the world! Even book Mace isn't stupid enough to act like this. D&D took a dumb character and made him full-fledged retarded.


-Cersei being the one who proposes reestablishing the Faith Militant out of nowhere for absolutely no reason. She even put the goddamned idea into the High Sparrow's head! At least her agreeing to it in the books made sense as part of her trade with the High Sparrow. Here she gained NOTHING. Doing all this to arrest Loras made no sense when in the show the Sparrows were already arresting people for the crazy shit D&D thinks the Sparrows arrest people for. This is major dumbing down for Cersei, who the show usually whitewashes and flatters. Bizarre D&D antics.


-I've said it before now but it still needs to be said this week. D&D inserting their fucking 2015 fedora atheism bullshit into a medieval setting they clearly don't understand very well. The Sparrows, an army of war refugees that help the people, is now ISIS that goes around terrorizing smallfolk for no reason. They even run around beheading gay people, as if D&D think this is some brilliant Christianity parallel. The Sparrows are a refugee movement that of course in a medieval setting would be religious in nature, they're not terrorists and running around murdering gay people is in direct contradiction to their objectives. Fuck you D&D, simplifying a more complex situation.


-And arresting Loras instead of Margy. Fucking lol. I bet you think this is some brilliant political commentary, D&D. Omg evil Republicans Indiana pizzerias. Fuck off. So the High Sparrow is going to arbitrarily turn the whole realm upside down just to persecute Loras for no real reason, who ultimately is just a Knight of the Kingsguard? And what's the endgame? To annoy Margy? It won't change her status at all. Book Cersei framing Margy actually made goddamn sense because it removed the goddamn problem Cersei goddamn had and the charges brought before her seemed like something the High Sparrow might actually care about given that she's the queen! Not to mention this plot makes NO SENSE in the greater scheme of things. So Mace is just going to continue to let his son be terrorized while he acts as Cersei's messenger? In the books when Margy is arrested Mace drops everything he's doing and arrives in KL with an army. Because that is what the Lord of Highgarden would do. But D&D are as dumb as Mace, apparently.


-And one more thing, did you really just have to insert Loras into yet another "gay gay gay he's gay gay!" subplot. You're robbing Loras of his biggest battle in the books, just for more walking gay billboard. Bravo with that character development.


-WHY IS TOMMEN RUNNING AROUND THE RED KEEP WITH NO GODDAMN KINGSGUARD, OR GUARDS OF ANY KIND. Do people realize the last King was fucking murdered?!


-The Sparrows just casually rejecting the King, threatening him, then shitting on him. Book High Sparrow ain't this stupid, and neither should the show counterpart. This whole scene was fucking stupid and made no sense. Sparrow smallfolk shits don't fucking reject then THREATEN the King of Westeros so blatantly like that and get away with it. And don't give me that "omg it shows how badass they are". No, it's just shit writing inconsistent with the setting.


-I haven't checked this yet and a wiki of ice and fire is down so can't be 100% certain, but did D&D invent house names? Wibberly? Wtf? Is it really that hard to just include the many, many mentioned houses of the series? Do you even care about the source material?


-Useless sex/tits scene, just so D&D can jerk each other off on how edgy they are. NOBODY CARES. Can get better tits on xtube and you're just wasting time. Especially since the entire fucking scene was fucking stupid. Mel trying to bang Jon into breaking his vows? wtf? Do D&D consider both of these characters such lowly retards? Not to mention D&D ONLY did this because the Melisandre actress is the only show bigwig who will show her tits anymore.


-Littlefinger just casually wandering around Winterfell, then King's Landing. Fucking kek. Did he just forget that he has the Vale to rule and tons of Vale Lords are still against him? Do D&D understand how these kind of political systems work? Apparently not, because once you explain something in the show it's instantly over and resolved forever.


[Offensive content removed]


-Removing Rhaegar defeating fucking Arthur Dayne, the BAMF Sword of the Morning, at the Harrenhal Tourney. Instead it's Barristan who D&D will soon shit on to boot. Why remove Dayne? Why remove his epicness? Is it because you plan to never mention him again and hope the audience forgets he ever existed? Fuck you, D&D


-Sansa having a fucking attachment and love for Littlefinger. WHY. IT MAKES NO SENSE. Is it because she's randomly "Darth Sansa" now so she arbitrarily likes other bad guys? Bravo D&D. This is like poetry, it rhymes.


-Littlefinger: "Stannis has a larger army". NO HE FUCKING DOESN'T. HE CAME TO THE NORTH WITH 1,500 MEN. Roose/Freys (I guess Freys don't exist anymore in the show!) have upwards of 5,000.


-Ramsay is falling in love with Sansa? Fucking fuck you D&D, whitewashing characters at every turn. Instead of the terrifying killer who starved his last wife to death for the lulz, he's falling in wuv. I bet Ramsay's other dear girlfriend will get jealous! Cringe.


-Dorne is white. The Spanish motif is fine, they're Mediterranean inspired. But I dunno where D&D got the idea they're Arabs. They even have fucking scimitars and turbans now. Is it so you can meet your precious diversity quota, D&D?


-Jaime and Bronn just randomly sneaking into Dorne like James Bond is stupid and nonsensical enough, but now they run around murdering Dornish soldiers out of fucking nowhere? What? How will this benefit any of your objectives? If it was self-defense why would the Dornish try to murder Jaime fucking Lannister? Do D&D not understand how Westerosi politics works? I dunno why I'm even asking that anymore.


-Not to mention in this stupid fight, Bronn just lets Jaime nearly die for the lelz. I mean does he realize that if Jaime dies under his care Bronn will lose everything? Apparently not, because Show Bronn is just full of quips and jokes but is otherwise devoid of anything.


-Sand Snakes in general are absolute shit. The actresses are shit, the characterization is shit (MAMA!), their antics are shit. Why would they kill their messenger who betrayed the Lannisters? Nobody else will want to betray the Lannisters for you anymore. Not to mention the Sand Snakes are all simplified down into brutal amazon women (COMPLETE WITH BREASTPLATE NIPPLES! The fact that D&D unironically do this is so telling and symbolic of the show by this point). Nym loses her cunning and charm, Tyene her amiability. They're all just clones of each other. And on top of that, Ellaria is reduced from the voice of reason in the books to just another psycho mass murdering maniac. Is all this because D&D think women can't control themselves themselves? sounds sexist to me! Somehow D&D took a lackluster book plot and made it far, far more stupid.


-Changing Barristan's Rhaegar story with Dany. It was so much more banal, cliche, and typical than what is revealed in the books. Gone is Barristan revealing the mystery of what Rhaegar read that made him decide to become a warrior, gone is the mysterious aloofness and seeming despair that plagued him. Instead he liked to be a fucking mummer who got drunk with knights. What a bro right D&D?! No, fuck you once more


-Hizdhar going from a shrewd ruthless schemer to just some whiny sycophant bitch. Even Dany openly mocks him. D&D seem desperate to introduce minority characters, while simultaneously character-assassinating actual book minority characters. Nonsensical


-The whole Sons of the Harpy fight thing. I'm just left speechless from the stupidity here. Be it the Sons of the Harpy (fucking pampered aristocracy and their thugs) being elite super rambo warriors who fight open battles instead of cloak and dagger book activities, be it Unsullied fighting like Mel Gibson in Braveheart without any kind of cohesion or discipline, or be it Barristan THE BOLD losing to these pieces of shit. It's all so stupid. And did D&D decide to punk Barristan because the actor is a bookfag critical of show deviations? I have no evidence to support this really, but keep in mind that D&D were petty enough to waste 6 minutes of last seasons finale into a tantrum against Orson Scott Card for criticizing the show.


I'll be back next week to explain why the show has sucked since season 2 and the books are better. Bring on the downvotes!

Edited by Stubby
Removal of offensive content

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Think point of the feather in the crypt scene was to remind us of the raven in Brans dream.

I was thinking it tied in R+L+R and remind us of what gave the war the push.

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Dany is better off without Baristan. Now she can be advised by Tyrion who won't tell her to chop off shaved pate's head... Dany's dragons and Tyrion's political brain.


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So sad to see Selmy go. But it makes sense. His death opens two roles besides Dany. The blade by her side (Jorah) and the Westerosi adviser (Tyrion). Both who we know are on their way there.



Also to those confused about how the "cliffhanger" works if they confirm it the next minute in the promo. Remember that this episode was the last one the reviewers saw in their packet (the same on that was leaked). Would've acted as a major cliffhanger for them. They could've also shifted their promos around after the leaks too.


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LF did shoot her a look like "come on..nobody believes Robert's and Ned's BS story..." Of course, it would serve no purpose for him to challenge her thinking on that.

I love how they give us the dead giveaway on Jon being the King and go rait to the crypt in the very next scene it was awesome

the guys at work all missed the voice

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