Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP504 Discussion

Recommended Posts

Actually the books say that they are not much cop as security guards, they tend to get fat and lazy out of formation.

And the odds were at least ten to one,

Have you ever worn armor? Even chain mail is a serious weight. That plate armor can only be worn for long periods on horseback.

On top of which, armor slows you down.

That's right. Armor is very heavy. Only a man that stood for hours a day protecting a king for several decades could be used to the weight, not Old feeble Selmy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Enjoyed the scene with Mace; always do. Could anyone be so naive and oblivious to Cerise's insults? Ya almost gotta love him, poor babe. I also enjoyed Pycelle's saying the small council was getting smaller and Cerise's "Not small enough".

it's the epitome of how much of the story, and "game" is really played (or in Cerceis' case messed up) by the women right under these mens noses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Selmy was Rhaegars buddy on the show, and we have no mention of the Daynes, does that mean Selmy was at the Tower of Joy and went with Rhaegar to the Trident? Which would mean he knows about Jon, so that can't be. Or they are going to need to write some serieously fucked up shit. Which I can't put past them. But who the hell was with Rhaegar, like none of the KG have gotten a mention and they just missed a perfect time to mention Arthur. Yet the Daynes appear to be missing or to never have existed on the show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WHAT A WASTE.




Last night's episode is still sticking to the back of my throat, like a rancid cask of Arbor Red. Ser Barristan was a wasted character on the show from day one. They never let him fully develop or be of any relevance like he is in the books. Here you have the baddest knight in the seven kingdoms basically playing a friendly grandpa to Dany. I'm surprised he didn't offer her a piece of hard candy and a crumpled up kleenex he dug out of the bottom of his purse.



Book Barristan was by far my favorite character and I was so excited to see them bring his Mereen chapters (after Dany takes flight) to life. Now I fear they will give his story arc to the undeserving Daario, or even - shudder - Jorah. Ser Barristan deserved his moment in the sun, and D&D simply did him wrong.



I'm not one to take my toys and leave the playground, but D&D's decision to send Barristan packing before his time has really soured my entire enjoyment of the series. I think I will skip the rest of the seasons so that they will not spoil WOW for me. I'd rather read GRRM's true vision first, and then catch up on this fan fic version once it is released on Blu-Ray. I honestly think this is it for me.



Cute stuff with Shereen and Stannis. Jon getting hypnotized by a boob was pretty funny, but the Sand Snakes were just laughable... and not in a good way. They basically took all the cool stuff we liked about the Sand Snakes and threw it away in exchange for some angsty, vaguely ethnic, teens with nipple armor. Interesting stuff with LF and Sansa, clearly being set-up for the "controversial" scene next week when Ramsay shows his true colors. And although it was nice to get some Rhaegar lore in there, it seemed like it came out of nowhere. Like suddenly D&D needed to get the backstory out there and threw out some random Rhaegar tales, instead of using what could have been (Selmy) a nice long lead up through personal accounts of what happened during the Rebellion.



Boo. Just boooooooooo on you D&D. #TeamBarristan4Life


Edited by Daenerys_Is_Coming

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Selmy was Rhaegars buddy on the show, and we have no mention of the Daynes, does that mean Selmy was at the Tower of Joy and went with Rhaegar to the Trident? Which would mean he knows about Jon, so that can't be. Or they are going to need to write some serieously fucked up shit. Which I can't put past them. But who the hell was with Rhaegar, like none of the KG have gotten a mention and they just missed a perfect time to mention Arthur. Yet the Daynes appear to be missing or to never have existed on the show.

I believe Ser Arthur Dayne was mentioned last season, when Joffrey is taking a jab at Jaime for his lack of accomplishments. Though he doesn't mention how he was slain.

Edited by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Selmy was Rhaegars buddy on the show, and we have no mention of the Daynes, does that mean Selmy was at the Tower of Joy and went with Rhaegar to the Trident? Which would mean he knows about Jon, so that can't be. Or they are going to need to write some serieously fucked up shit. Which I can't put past them. But who the hell was with Rhaegar, like none of the KG have gotten a mention and they just missed a perfect time to mention Arthur. Yet the Daynes appear to be missing or to never have existed on the show.

It only needs to happen at some point before the conclusion of the R+L=J subplot. I'm sure we're going to get more backstory behind it in the upcoming weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, well ... I'm kind of speechless - I didn't think the show could get any worse than last week.



Stannis, whom I never liked much, is becoming my favourite character. No matter how cheesy the writing, he turns it into gold. The scene with Shireen was truly moving and the first scene in season 5 apart from Drogon meeting Dany that had an emotional impact. Strong, very well acted scene - if only the rest were half as good.



I liked LF and Sansa discussing their plan - at least there is one, although it still makes very little sense to me. But yes, it could work for the show. The tourney mention was great as well, although it was so very unsubtle. But at least Dave Hill read the books and came up with something that works as background story.



The rest - aweful, truly, truly aweful. Mel showing Jon her boobs - why, just ... why? A pointless sword fight on a coast that looked like Northern Ireland more than any place in any south. It might have been about a mile down from where Jaime met Bronn and Lollys two episodes ago. Unsullied defeated by aristocrats in linen clothing? They didn't just train fighting with spears, but also with short swords. But hey, why take them with you in a city where every street is narrower that the path atop the Wall? And the Faith, devoted people who want economic justice most of all, are now worse than ISIS? The whole theme of AFFC, wonderfully told by Martin, butchered in a minute ...



But worst of all: The sand worms ... eh ... snakes. Three girls, camping somewhere in the desert, torturing an informant. Obara - who out of devotion to her father decided long ago that she wanted to kill an innocent girl in his name? Who kills the informant just because she can? I mean, who comes up with shit like that - I haven't seen less original characters than those on TV in a very, very long time. That's why you had Dorne this season, for those terrible walking cliches?



I'm not saying I'll stop watching the show - they might still turn the one or other plot around. But if I was Martin, I'd now be working on a comletely different ending from what he told D&D, just to prevent them from completely ruining the greatest fantasy epic of all time and making it into mediocre TV about dumb women fighting petty fights and tough me being tough.


Edited by Gargarax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe Ser Arthur Dayne was mentioned last season, when Joffrey is taking a jab at Jaime for his lack of accomplishments. Though he doesn't mention how he was slain.

The book of Brothers, that's right, mountains of Dorne. Forgot about that, clues on R+L has come from Joff and LF. Lovely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • So, that's what Melissandre was up to with Jon. Thought maybe the Shadowbaby trick would have an expiration date, but then I remember that when Stannis wanted another one after the BoB, she did tell him he was too weak. I love the idea that Sam and Gilly may abscond with Shireen, keeping her out of Mel's claws.

Since Melissandre had a conversation with Stannis about her important role in the war effort in the same episode, I think her attempt to seduce Jon must be related to the planned attack on Winterfell. And really, assassinating Roose would be a great help to Stannis. Ramsay would go beserk trying to find the killer but there would be wide-spread suspicion that Ramsay did it. Without Roose, the Boltons fall and Stannis is unopposed, especially because there isn't a huge Frey army up north in the show.

Edited by Janicia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jaime doesn't really free himself of the Cersei-PW until he ignores her letter after finding out she was fucking Lancel/Kettleblack. I would expect Bronn to reveal that to him at some point and when Cersei gets in trouble, Jaime refuses to return to her. Basically I believe it will be the same, his characterization is pretty consistent with the books up until this point, even on his Riverrun trip he thinks about being with Cersei despite knowing she wasn't faithful to him.

That's a good point, I forgot Bronn knew about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one cares about Tysha actually, she was not necessary to the story. It's a great detail in the books, showing how vicious Tywin was and giving more depth to Tyrion, but in the series there's no reason to add 300 details (especially when the viewers can't recognize all the 500 cast members - "Who is this again, the guy with the beard?"). Tyrion is at the exact same point as in the books, with or without Tysha. R+L=J is really important for the future.

Actually, Tysha was included in the show. They devoted several precious minutes of boobless screen time for Tyrion to tell her story. Those demons haunted him back in Season 1. It would've been an understandable decision not to include her in the first place. But to introduce such a part of Tyrion's personal history, only to completely forget about it later, seems just sloppy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's right. Armor is very heavy. Only a man that stood for hours a day protecting a king for several decades could be used to the weight, not Old feeble Selmy!

He was not on duty at the time of the attack.

Or do you think he walks round in full armor for the fun of it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, Tysha was included in the show. They devoted several precious minutes of boobless screen time for Tyrion to tell her story. Those demons haunted him back in Season 1. It would've been an understandable decision not to include her in the first place. But to introduce such a part of Tyrion's personal history, only to completely forget about it later, seems just sloppy.

Tyrion doesn't think about her much till the river trip and meeting thumbalina. There is enough for the unsullied to remember, why spend time in season 2 telling a story about the past that does not become important till season 6?

They didn't bring up Magy the frog till now either.

Oh and killing the informant makes perfect sense if you are attempting to start a war because you don't want anyone else finding out that Jamie is on the loose. He might get arrested and thrown in jail and then that would make starting the war harder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's an old man, and he still managed to take out a bunch of them. Even Arthur Dayne didn't survive such odds.

In the books, he's about 80, I think. Not bad for an "old man"!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My thoughts on this tragic episode....




Sparrows: D+D went way too fanatical with the Sparrows. Their actions were so over the top, cultish, and cartoonish that they have become laughable. There is no depth to the movement, just a bunch of crazy homophobic zealots.



Tommen: Poor kid. But honestly ... would Cersei ever send her last born son out onto the streets of KL to treat with a pack known crown haters? It's just not in keeping with the show's portrayal of her as a fierce tiger mom protecting her children at all costs. She would never set up Tommen to look weak in front of the masses.



The Jamie and Bronn Show: UGGH. While I am happy to see Bronn back, could it be any more campy? It's like watching an episode of Laverne and Shirley. Although I really enjoy when the show takes a stab at dark comedy (chicken anyone?) I'm afraid that next episode they'll get a job on the conveyor belt at a chocolate factory. Hilarity ensues!



Stannis the Mannis: Whoa! Stannis has a heart! I actually liked the Stannis/Shereen scene, and I am assuming that Greyscale is going to take the place of the "plague" in Mereen? Otherwise I can't understand why the show would make such a point to address it both this week and last.



Jon Snow Nothing: Watching Jon get hypnotized by a boob was hilarious. And not in a good way. Mel's departing words had my entire group laughing at the screen. Was it supposed to be comedy?



Sansa/LittleFinger: Quite possibly the WORST character to be given the task of explaining the events leading up to Robert's Rebellion. This important back story should have been given to a character with dignity, trustworthiness, and a voice that doesn't sound like Christian Bale doing a Christian Bale impersonation. Did the non-book readers even grasp the importance of the tale he told? It felt way too off the cuff coming from LF. His smirk when Sansa mentioned "the kidnapping and rape" of Lyanna was totally lost on my non-book reading friends. The gravity was lost.



The Sand Snakes: UUUGGGGGGHHH. When did Indira Varma forget how to act? I loved her in Rome. She was chewing through so much scenery, I thought it was an episode of House Of Cards. The accents are lost on me too. I was originally on board with the decision to have Ellaria replace Arienne, simply because I think Varma is a slid actress, but everything they have done to the Sand Snakes storyline has been cheap. The actors, the costumes, the set design ... maybe they blew their budget on CGI at the Wall last season? And while I appreciate that Obara's monologue came straight outta Martin's mouth, it was so poorly set-up that it didn't make any contextual sense. It was like D+D just randomly grabbed a paragraph from the book and said "insert this!" The acting from all three snakes was lackluster and I find myself (yet again) in the position of explaining to my freinds "They were really badass in the books!! I swear!




And speaking of BADASS...



In my opinion, D+D's most heinous crime against the books in the last 5 seasons has been the utter lack of development of Ser Barristan the Bold. This character has such a rich history and historical relevance to everything that the show is now starting to address, he should have been at the forefront this season and next. I've been patiently awaiting his aDwD story arc and assuring my friends that he truly is the baddest knight in the Kingdom. How does a character go from essentially taking out the entire Sons of Harpy while Dany is on sabbatical, to being casually killed by the Sons of Harpy in a back alley??? D+D's lack of attention to and development of Selmy doesn't even qualify this as a killing for "shock value." It was absolutely pointless. Non-book readers have never been truly attached to show Selmy, so I assume D+D are paving the way for fan favorite Jorah/Tyrion to replace him. My problem with his death is that it seems it was done just to meet some sort of arbitrary body count. As if D+D are under pressure to kill off characters to keep viewers watching. I think it is a "Red Wedding" effect. The amount of press and fanfare and outrage and shock that came after the Red Wedding were ratings gold. But to kill for no other reason than to rattle the viewers is stupid. Barristan deserved better than that and it makes me question D+D's understanding of the source material. I no longer trust their decision making and don't feel that they are authentically representing Martin's work. I understand that a TV show cannot possibly do justice to a deeply layered epic fantasy series, and I don;t expect them to follow the books exactly, but this nonchalant death shows me that they lost the lore and replaced it with ..... more boobs.


Edited by Daenerys_Is_Coming

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was not on duty at the time of the attack.

Or do you think he walks round in full armor for the fun of it?

Off duty? Selmy doesn't work at the Gap. He a knight, a queen's guard. Knights wear armor. Try all you like to explain it away, but a Queensguard out for a stroll, unarmored, in a city in turmoil doesn't make sense to me. He had a sword didn't he?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shireen was afflicted with greyscale by the doll pressed on her face.



Craster Jr. was Otherized by a cold finger pressed on his face.



Coincidence?



I don't think so.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I the only one who thinks that Meryn Trant might go the way of Raff the Sweetling in Braavos? Or at least I got that impression, along with the following: https://promethiumwings.wordpress.com/2015/05/04/game-of-thrones-s5e4-review/

I think pretty much everyone thinks that. At least those I have spoken too, Meryn killed Syrio, he's a dead man. Though I think his plan is to kill Tyrell and Arya is going to royally screw that up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the books, he's about 80, I think. Not bad for an "old man"!

He was born in 237 and is 63 in 300 AC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×