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[Book Spoilers] EP504 Discussion

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I'm not sure how I feel about the prostitutes helping the Harpy's sons. Wouldn't they be former slaves? So, they are essentially helping their former owners?

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I'm gonna guess that Barristan is alive (for now.) It looked like he was about to get his throat slit but was saved.


Edited by Dagon

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Killing off Barry. Geeez. It's been said before, but they've completely wasted him in the series.



If they wanted to create a sense of threat regarding the Sons of the Harpy, they should have just killed off Grey Worm. Then, the daft sub plot with Missandei and him could have ended.



So that will be Tyrion in command for siege of Meereen or the whole thing left out altogether then?.



And what the hell is going on with the Faith Militant? It's supposed to be the military order of the Faith of the Seven; not some gang of medieval blackshirts.

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I'm gonna guess that Barristan is alive (for now.) It looked like he was about to get his throat slit but was saved.

They probably saved him to give him a final tear-wrenching farewell scene with Dany where he urges her to not be her father. Or something like that.

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So, first time I comment on a show episode on here. But I feel this needs to be commented on.



First and foremost, my biggest annoyance. The show first takes time to explain, via Mace, but still, that the crown has no money and is hugely endebted. Then Cersei goes to talk to the High Sparrow. They have already set up the scene to play out like the books, where Cersei thinks herself a genius for erasing the crown's debt to the church, and getting rid of the sparrows (while being brilliantly manipulated by the High Sparrow). But no, this time the Faith Militant is reformed for a completely different (and pointless) reason, without the High Sparrow's influence, even. That the Faith Militant then goes completely bananas in the span of what seems like ~5 minutes doesn't make the whole ordeal more fun to watch. In the books, at least they started gently enough.



Speaking of Mace Tyrell, it's nice to see them follow Arya's plot up to Mercy, at least. Westerosi envoy + person on death list + Braavos... Yeah, we know that setup.



Jaime and Bronn landing in Dorne, well, I've got nothing concrete to say there. The Sand Snakes, however... yeah. Also, I don't think this has been brought yet, but when we see the captain buried to his neck in the sand: how the heck did they dig that hole? And why? To pass time? Could have just tied him up or something. Also, I didn't see any sand piles anywhere. Logic dictates there should be a pretty large one close to the hole.



Littlefinger's plan also makes little sense. Hey, let's bring Sansa to a war zone, and hope she'll come out on top. Oh, by the way, business in King's Landing. Bye! As if King's Landing was just down the street. If I recall correctly, it took Robert a month to go to Winterfell from there, or more. Arya and the band didn't even clear the Crownlands during her time with Yoren.



And the fight at the end... Sad to see the Unsullied be so unprofessional. They walk straight into a trap in a tight formation. Instead of locking shields and scurrying for the door (or even freaking talk to another! They're drilled to be a unit, dammit!), they go all mano à mano with their poorly suited weapons, and lose badly to a bunch of former slave owners, a non-martial caste of a non-martial culture, wearing bed sheets and sight-impairing masks. Not even an attempt to retreat or raise an alarm was made. Even a coordinated attack in either direction would mow the slave owners down like grass, but no, they split up the formation and fight every man for himself.


"Yeah, but they're battlefield soldiers!"


And primarily sold and bought to use as household guards. Why would there even be a marked for Unsullied if they were so hilariously inept at their job? You'd think half a lifetime of training would give them some experience on fighting in close quarters, since it doesn't take that long to learn to stand firm in a square like they do on the battlefield.



Barristan also decides to go in alone when he sees fighting, and instead of quickly turning back and get reinforcements when he sees the carnage, he enters the fray. Alone. Okay, he does kill a few of the Sons, but it's still a rather poor decision.



Speaking of the Sons, they seem to be awfully skilled and devoted guerilla soldiers for only having existed for a month or two, being formed by the families of former slave owners (with zero incentive to ever learn how to fight). One would think some would lose their spirit after seeing half their comrades butchered, or two thirds, but no, they fight to the last man standing, and gleefully charge at the man who's killed half a dozen of their compatriots in as many strikes of the sword. Not even the White Walkers have been built up to be as effective, devoted or heartless antagonists as that. If they believe so strongly in their cause, willing to die for it without hesitation, and capable enough in a fight to kill experienced soldiers who can neither feel pain nor fear, one cannot help to wonder why they lost the city to begin with (or why they didn't fight to the last man when the city was taken).



Also, R+L is a thing. It was heavily implied not to have been rape, since Rhaegar was a good guy. Jon Snow is also special, and it wasn't Ned Stark's style to father a bastard. Hm, I feel like these clues point towards something, but I can't for the life of me figure out what...



We're also reminded what Greyscale is, for some reason. The Stone Men have moved their whereabouts to Valyria, which happens to lie right in the path of Tyrion and Jorah. Again, having read the books twice, all I can put together from that is a big "huuuuuuhhh???".


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Yeah, pretty much agree about Barristan being wasted but on the other hand, those last 10 minutes had me gasping for air. I don't know, on one hand I really loved watching the episode, it was pure television, with great visuals, great dialogue and great world building. But as soon as the titles rolled the book-reader-voice came back nagging. There's just so much stuff that didn't make sense, if you know the books and how the characters are "supposed" to work. I probably can't add anything new to the conversation but I still feel like venting:


- Cersei basically bullying her only son into butting heads with the Faith militant makes no goddamn sense. There's no way she'd push him into such a dangerous situation.


- I didn't use to hate LF as much as most book readers seem to, but that stuff with Sansa doesn't sit right with me at all.


- The Mel/Jon scene was just outright terrible. Terrible, terrible, softcore bullshit and I really hate how much they simplifiy Jons character.


- I am alright with the way they are reshuffeling the Dorne plot, but the individual scenes this week and last week were just not particularly well written or acted. But I never cared about Dorne too much and I am generally fine with the way they are handling it.


- A little detail: Man, I hate Bronns and Jaimes outfits, they look like they belong to a 90s undercover cop show. A friend of mine insists that middleage wardrobe would look like that, but I to my sensibilities it looks terrible anachronistic.



What I liked:


- The Bronn/Jaime battle as well as the one at the end were really exciting.


- I loved all the backstory they worked in. Shittons of R+L=J stuff. Man if they were to do an actual Tourney at Harrenhal flashback, I'd fucking lose my shit. That was the first thing I was thinking of when I heard about young Cersei being cast.


- There's some stuff I didn't like about the way they escalated things in KL, but all in all they are doing a solid job reworking the bloated mess they were given. Let's be honest here, as fun to read as crazy Cersei is, that plot took ages to unfold. Sure, the result may not be perfect, but neither was the source material.


- Also, let's just take a step back. With all the negging and nitpicking it's worth reminding everyone that we are watching the most beautifully realized TV show ever made. That shot of Daenerys watching over Meeren is amazing, the battle at the end was beautifully choreographed, the Wall is still a perfect translation from book to TV. As much as I like to get worked up about the details, it's still a miracle how well they translated Westeros and Essos to the screen.


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Very nice scene between Stannis and Shireen. I think this will be the one that wins the audience.


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So Ser Barristan could cut through 6 kings gaurd like carving a cake but 5 assassins with daggers and masks best him in broad day light??? Pretty weak!!


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Funny how on a regular TV show Barristan would be back up walking around without a scratch a few episodes later but hits is GOT :(



I'm kind of glad they are rushing through the Meerenese Knot but not with these additions.


Edited by aFeastForDragons

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So Ser Barristan could cut through 6 kings gaurd like carving a cake but 5 assassins with daggers and masks best him in broad day light??? Pretty weak!!

People who age out of their prime are oft in denial they have diminished capability...this is not a new concept.

Claiming he could cut them into pieces and actually doing it are different things padawon.

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So does anyone have an idea as to why the writers decided to off Barristan? He plays such a crucial role (at least I thought so) when Dany flies away. I cannot figure out a reason. Maybe I am not imaginative enough. What I am hoping is that they didn't just kill him off for shits and giggles. I assume they want to shake things up to keep the book readers guessing, but isn't it enough that they will/are ahead of the source material?


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So does anyone have an idea as to why the writers decided to off Barristan? He plays such a crucial role (at least I thought so) when Dany flies away. I cannot figure out a reason. Maybe I am not imaginative enough. What I am hoping is that they didn't just kill him off for shits and giggles. I assume they want to shake things up to keep the book readers guessing, but isn't it enough that they will/are ahead of the source material?

Dave and Dan just did it to piss him and book readers off.

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So does anyone have an idea as to why the writers decided to off Barristan? He plays such a crucial role (at least I thought so) when Dany flies away. I cannot figure out a reason. Maybe I am not imaginative enough. What I am hoping is that they didn't just kill him off for shits and giggles. I assume they want to shake things up to keep the book readers guessing, but isn't it enough that they will/are ahead of the source material?

From various production photos, we know that

Tyrion and Jorah are both present in Daznak's Pit. Jorah as a Pit Fighter, and I believe Tyrion is in Hizdhar and Dany's box. So I'm presuming that the writers intend Tyrion to take charge when Dany flies off. Hence Barristan dying

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It is fantastic to see the plot progress, unlike what we have hard from the books over the last 10 years.



I read somebody else say they have 26 episodes left to finish this entire thing up. They need to kill off a lot of people before the last few episodes.


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