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[Book Spoilers] EP504 Discussion

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LOL this is as shallow as it gets I suppose but nevermind because now I see why do you enjoy the show so much: its stripped of all those layers and layers you misunderstood or failed to notice so nothing to disturb you there. But saying Sons of the Harpy is bigger threat is hilarious really. Why are they bigger threat is it because they killed some unsullied and Barristan in terribly contrived and poorly filmed fight scene? Or is it because of guys hiding inside walls? But what would be logic of hiding inside walls is what I wonder? Why would anybody hide inside walls with daggers and masks LOL? Yes they must be a bigger threat because why else would they hide inside walls...

I comprehend the books just fine. Its just that I also understand the limitation of the tv medium and judge the show accordingly. You, apparently, do not understand those limitations and have taken it upon yourself to make immature remarks about how I'm stupid for enjoying what I consider to be good quality television. As for the Sons of the Harpy, yes, they are much bolder in the show, if the end of episode 4 is anything to judge by, and that makes them dangerous. However, anonymity is their greatest weapon, which is why the guy hid inside the wall with his mask and his daggers. To remain hidden.

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I comprehend the books just fine. Its just that I also understand the limitation of the tv medium and judge the show accordingly. You, apparently, do not understand those limitations and have taken it upon yourself to make immature remarks about how I'm stupid for enjoying what I consider to be good quality television. As for the Sons of the Harpy, yes, they are much bolder in the show, if the end of episode 4 is anything to judge by, and that makes them dangerous. However, anonymity is their greatest weapon, which is why the guy hid inside the wall with his mask and his daggers. To remain hidden.

You can't be serious I hope. It is natural to hide his mask and daggers, but: WHY DOES HE HAS TO HIDE INSIDE WALLS? Precisely because they are anonymous they don't have to hide their faces when they're not in action. What is the point of masks if you're hiding with them inside walls? LOL! And if the end of episode 4 is anything to judge by it is not that they are bolder but that the show is more stupid than ever, because unsullied are pure incompetence and Barristan is too. Realistically those rebells in the end of episode 4 would all be dead so they wouldn't be threat at all. Oh and no, you don't comprehend the books at all if you see nothing but Jaime's redemption in his Riverlands journey. And you also don't comprehend mediums if you're trying to justify men hiding in walls: that is ridiculous in any medium, but I guess you managed to miss that too.

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You can't be serious I hope. It is natural to hide his mask and daggers, but: WHY DOES HE HAS TO HIDE INSIDE WALLS? Precisely because they are anonymous they don't have to hide their faces when they're not in action. What is the point of masks if you're hiding with them inside walls? LOL! And if the end of episode 4 is anything to judge by it is not that they are bolder but that the show is more stupid than ever, because unsullied are pure incompetence and Barristan is too. Realistically those rebells in the end of episode 4 would all be dead so they wouldn't be threat at all. Oh and no, you don't comprehend the books at all if you see nothing but Jaime's redemption in his Riverlands journey. And you also don't comprehend mediums if you're trying to justify men hiding in walls: that is ridiculous in any medium, but I guess you managed to miss that too.

I don't know why you are so hung up on the man hiding inside a wall. He's hiding from Barristan and Grey Worm, who have come to escort him to his execution. And episode 4 shows that the Sons of the Harpy are highly organized who can pull off coordinated attacks across the city. The Unsullied and Barristan were outnumbered and ambushed. They didn't stand a chance in hell. This isn't Lord of the Rings where the main characters can kill a hundred enemies at once. This was realistic fight scene, whether you like it or not. And Barristan still managed to take down a dozen of the bastards before succumbing to his wounds.

What's the point of the Riverlands journey then? Why did we have to see the Riverlords surrender? How does that advance the plot?

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I don't know why you are so hung up on the man hiding inside a wall. He's hiding from Barristan and Grey Worm, who have come to escort him to his execution. And episode 4 shows that the Sons of the Harpy are highly organized who can pull off coordinated attacks across the city. The Unsullied and Barristan were outnumbered and ambushed. They didn't stand a chance in hell. This isn't Lord of the Rings where the main characters can kill a hundred enemies at once. This was realistic fight scene, whether you like it or not. And Barristan still managed to take down a dozen of the bastards before succumbing to his wounds.

What's the point of the Riverlands journey then? Why did we have to see the Riverlords surrender? How does that advance the plot?

You're confusing several scenes into one it seems. I\m talking about scene from episode 2 when Daario and Grey Worm arrest that man that was hiding inside walls. There is no Barristan there and there is no escort to execution. He was hiding for no reason at all. Watch that scene again and you will see what I'm talking about. It was amazingly stupid scene that created another amazingly stupid scene at the end of episode when that little ex slave is executed. About Barristan's death scene there is nothing realistic about it but folks at Rant and Rave thread explained it much better than I can so if you really want to challenge that illusion that it is some masterful scene go through that thread and see for yourself. And please don't put LOTR on me. In fact I really dislike LOTR and the reason I adore ASOIAF is that it is very different from LOTR, but its sad that the show is then plagued by one unrealistic scene after another. It is the show that is much more like LOTR than the books. About Riverlands I don't know what to say if you missed all the tragic beauty of that story. Plot is not supposed to be just for its own sake, it should have some meaning, and just like other parts of the novels Riverlands also have point. Arya's arc there was about horrors of war but Jaime's and Brienne's arcs there are about horrors of what comes after. And of course that there can't be peace until justice is done and justice can't be done until those responsible for Red Wedding are punished. That is why entire Riverlands are just waiting for chance to slaughter Freys and why LS creates havoc that underlines everything that Jaime does. Its not only fitting epilogue to the bloody war but also preparation for what is to come and what can be as bloody as the war. In those horrific chapters Martin displayed what it mean to end the war with injustice and what consequences there are to that. If you didn't enjoy those chapters that is your right but it doesn't mean that those chapters are only about Jaime and that they should be cut of. In the way I am glad that part was cut of which is better than to be butchered by hacks but in the hands of more talented writers that material would be gold mine.

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You're confusing several scenes into one it seems. I\m talking about scene from episode 2 when Daario and Grey Worm arrest that man that was hiding inside walls. There is no Barristan there and there is no escort to execution. He was hiding for no reason at all. Watch that scene again and you will see what I'm talking about. It was amazingly stupid scene that created another amazingly stupid scene at the end of episode when that little ex slave is executed. About Barristan's death scene there is nothing realistic about it but folks at Rant and Rave thread explained it much better than I can so if you really want to challenge that illusion that it is some masterful scene go through that thread and see for yourself. And please don't put LOTR on me. In fact I really dislike LOTR and the reason I adore ASOIAF is that it is very different from LOTR, but its sad that the show is then plagued by one unrealistic scene after another. It is the show that is much more like LOTR than the books. About Riverlands I don't know what to say if you missed all the tragic beauty of that story. Plot is not supposed to be just for its own sake, it should have some meaning, and just like other parts of the novels Riverlands also have point. Arya's arc there was about horrors of war but Jaime's and Brienne's arcs there are about horrors of what comes after. And of course that there can't be peace until justice is done and justice can't be done until those responsible for Red Wedding are punished. That is why entire Riverlands are just waiting for chance to slaughter Freys and why LS creates havoc that underlines everything that Jaime does. Its not only fitting epilogue to the bloody war but also preparation for what is to come and what can be as bloody as the war. In those horrific chapters Martin displayed what it mean to end the war with injustice and what consequences there are to that. If you didn't enjoy those chapters that is your right but it doesn't mean that those chapters are only about Jaime and that they should be cut of. In the way I am glad that part was cut of which is better than to be butchered by hacks but in the hands of more talented writers that material would be gold mine.

It was a typo. I meant to say Daario. Daario and Grey Worm were there to arrest him, which is why Grey Worm kicked down the door and had his spear at the ready. He hid out of fear of being discovered. The Rant and Rave thread is 140 pages long, so I only skimmed the first couple of pages. From what I've seen, all they've said was that Barristan "Fucking" Selmy could never be killed by knife wielding peons. But, unfortunately, Barristan "Fucking" Selmy is not invincible and was heavily outnumbered.

You do make some nice points about the Riverlands arc, though. We do see some of the aftermath of war in Arya and the Hound's storyline. We know Walder Frey basically rules the riverlands in all but name, and is allowing bandits and vagabonds to run loose. The smallfolk are suffering under his rule and the Iron Throne doeesn't care. We all see the riverlands burning in the last scene of episode 1 in season 4.

Jaime's redemption was what I got most out of his arc, but it served a deeper purpose. I don't think the rest of the storyline has been cut, merely postponed. We will see justice for the Red Wedding in season 6, I believe, seeing as David Bradley said he would return as Walder Frey.

Edited by Dragon in the North

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It was a typo. I meant to say Daario. Daario and Grey Worm were there to arrest him, which is why Grey Worm kicked down the door and had his spear at the ready. He hid out of fear of being discovered. The Rant and Rave thread is 140 pages long, so I only skimmed the first couple of pages. From what I've seen, all they've said was that Barristan "Fucking" Selmy could never be killed by knife wielding peons. But, unfortunately, Barristan "Fucking" Selmy is not invincible and was heavily outnumbered.

You do make some nice points about the Riverlands arc, though. Jaime's redemption was what I got out of it, but it served a deeper purpose. I don't think it's been cut, merely postponed. We will see justice for the Red Wedding in season 6, I believe, seeing as David Bradley said he would return as Walder Frey.

Believe me complaints go way beyond Barristan's reputation and there was debate between people trained in military about tactics of that battle. And what I as amateur found unrealistic is why unsullied didn't simply retreated back a little and took more favorable positions in corridor from which they came. I mean that is what anybody would do if ambushed like that its just common sense. And about arrest scene just please watch it again and you'll see it doesn't make any sense at all. Once Grey Worm kicked down the door there was no way for that guy to hide inside walls. He had to be hidden there all the time which is really as stupid as it gets.

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It was a typo. I meant to say Daario. Daario and Grey Worm were there to arrest him, which is why Grey Worm kicked down the door and had his spear at the ready. He hid out of fear of being discovered. The Rant and Rave thread is 140 pages long, so I only skimmed the first couple of pages. From what I've seen, all they've said was that Barristan "Fucking" Selmy could never be killed by knife wielding peons. But, unfortunately, Barristan "Fucking" Selmy is not invincible and was heavily outnumbered.

You do make some nice points about the Riverlands arc, though. We do see some of the aftermath of war in Arya and the Hound's storyline. We know Walder Frey basically rules the riverlands in all but name, and is allowing bandits and vagabonds to run loose. The smallfolk are suffering under his rule and the Iron Throne doeesn't care. We all see the riverlands burning in the last scene of episode 1 in season 4.

Jaime's redemption was what I got most out of his arc, but it served a deeper purpose. I don't think the rest of the storyline has been cut, merely postponed. We will see justice for the Red Wedding in season 6, I believe, seeing as David Bradley said he would return as Walder Frey.

I wonder why Selmy, out alone in a hostile city that just rioted and attacked the queen, would be wandering around, by himself, without armor? Answer: so he can get killed by some unskilled former slaveholders, LOL.

The whole thing was totally unrealistic except in the vein of "simulated fight for entertainment purposes only so it doesn't have to make sense or even follow the story in terms of weapons or soldier's prowess".

I didn't get that Daario and Grey Worm were there to arrest anyone in the previous scene, it seemed an awkward segment designed more to showcase that Daario is much more savvy and street smart than the unsullied, I assumed it was D&D's idea of foreshadowing and structure or something.

Walder Frey will definitely return, though after so long, it won't have the same importance to show only viewers, it would have been better for continuity if we saw him a couple of times between season 3 and season 6.

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The whole thing was totally unrealistic except in the vein of "simulated fight for entertainment purposes only so it doesn't have to make sense or even follow the story in terms of weapons or soldier's prowess".

I didn't get that Daario and Grey Worm were there to arrest anyone in the previous scene, it seemed an awkward segment designed more to showcase that Daario is much more savvy and street smart than the unsullied, I assumed it was D&D's idea of foreshadowing and structure or something.

 

Watching the show, I assumed that the men in masks who ambushed the unsullied were not your ordinary Harpy members, but perhaps skilled pit fighters, paid off or otherwise coerced by the wealthy and still influential Harpy organisation. The show mentioned the pit fighters often enough to clue viewers in. Why would the noble men do the dirty work themselves? It is not like they ever had before. The masks don't just serve to provide anonymity, they also mystify, make them look amorphous and uniform, so that the skills of a few hired pit-fighters can imbue the whole Harpy organization with the reputation of deadly effectiveness. Which is essential as their first goal is terror, rather than a direct threat to the power. They want to give the impression of a formidable and ruthless enemy hiding behind every corner and ready to strike at anyone.

As to the man hiding in the wall - it seemed to me just a little too convenient. Daario discovering seemingly intuitively, the guy being decked out in Harpy gear so as to leave no doubt to his involvement, Daario being the (only) one to question him, the guy pleading guilty. I felt like it was set up by Daario for reasons yet to be unveiled. He (or the rest of the Harpy) could have easily coerced some poor schmuck who for whatever reason fell out of favor (let yourself be found, pleas guilty, or your family buys it)

However, I have not read the books and only watched the show once, so feel free to disregard my observations.

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LOL

And what would you leave in???

For one, i would have gradly traded Dorne with the more interesting Iron Island thread.

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Final (?) thought:



I don't mean to keep harping on the Jon/Mel scene (who am I kidding? Yes I do, it was that stupid) but it's ridiculous that Jon couldn't muster a better refusal than "I'm still in love with a dead chick."


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