[BOOK SPOILERS] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[of man and wolf]

And those were hired guards, not "civilians". But what is consistency in the face of plot convenience? Nothing (is nothing).

Exactly.

[Le Cygne]

I think at some point, we'll find all of this quite funny. But now, it's all just so bizarre.

[of man and wolf]

Meh...the people butt hurt over the changes in Dorne are going to be butt hurt over the changes in Dorne no matter the performances. I hate the change to Ellaria, and also the decision to make Tyene a ninja or whatever the fuck, but it was just one scene. I have high hopes of a S6 Tyene killing Tommen scene, especially if one of her sisters or her mother gets off'ed. And to be fair, the majority of Sand Snake hate is from butthurt Stark book fans, people who hated AFFC/Dorne plot anyways. So meh.

I gotta admit...I much prefer the North and the stories surrounding it.

[Nihlus]

Fair point about them being outnumbered and surrounded, and that this is the least jarring aspect of the episode. But, since when exceptional "individual initiative" is a prerequisite to be a good soldier? It doesn't ring true to my rudimentary notions about infantry. Initiative is for the commanders, rankless pawns are to take orders and carry them out. Moreover, what the Unsullied lacked in testosterone, they made up in discipline. Again, fair point that they couldn't use their discipline to their advantage in the circumstances they were in (no formations and the like).

Other than that, well. What can be added to the points already made? All that it's left is to wait for memes to poke fun on the book-butchering being made.

NCOs are required to have individual initiative (and the NCOs are other Unsullied, because Dany is stupid and ignored the advice the slavers gave her). Even grunts are, to some extent. Beat that out of the men, and you get 1991 Iraq. where the men are robots who can't do anything without explicit orders from high-up, resulting in them showing what we would think is staggering incompetence. Contrary to popular belief, muscle strength and especially stamina matter a LOT, and the Unsullied lacking that puts them at a rather huge disadvantage. Discipline doesn't really matter in this scenario; they fought to the end and obeyed any order they were given (all one of them).

The Unsullied were never meant to be effective soldiers. They were meant to be overhyped, poorly armed dregs that were only talked up by a moron and had an embarrassing record in real combat. Which is why, in the books, all the Free Cities bar Qohor don't actually use them in their militaries. And why unarmored cavalry were able to inflict a lot of damage on them even when being retards and throwing themselves on spears. And why Kraznys explicitly says that they're thousands of years out of date. And why Bittersteel could curb-stomp a bunch of them with just some Westerosi exiles. Et cetera. I would guess that this is just the show's version of showing them to be crap.

Also, for those complaining about Grey Worm feeling pain: that makes perfect sense. The Unsullied only "worked" in the first place because the slavers gave them a magical drug three times a day. As far as we know, Dany doesn't have that magical drug. Speaking of which, Dany has done literally everything that the Unsullied's maker told her not to do. So, it's understandable that they'd be even more worthless than usual (appoint your own officers, don't let them regain their humanity, give them this magic potion, etc.).

I just noticed that the harpies only had trouble with those ~10 Unsullied because Barry and Grey Worm killed over 20 of them on their own. Probably would have gone a lot smoother if not for that.

I found they did more of a disservice to Grey Worm and the unsullied then to old man Barristan. Barry is an older man now...his reflexes and such not quite as quick...he's still tough, still good...and he killed a number of men, but yeah...he was gonna get nicked.

But GreyWorm and the Unsullied looked kinda lost...I get they were outnumbered but if I recall correctly during season 3, episode 9....GreyWorm, Daario and Jorah fought off about 20 times their numbers by themselves and handled it pretty easily.

Grey Worm killed like ten guys by himself, which was probably the most implausible part of the fight (besides Barry not wearing armor). An actually more impressive performance than killing... three(?) guys by himself with two veteran allies covering his back, in all honesty. Plus, Jorah and Daario were just way better allies to have than a few other nameless Unsullied. Jorah is a knight in partial plate, and Daario is a mercenary from the Free Cities. That basically makes them combat gods in the post-apocalyptic wasteland that makes up most of Essos. Oh, and he was outnumbered by a lot more here too. How many guards were there in that fight, like ten? Barristan's kills alone account for more than that!

[Fjordgazer]

I think at some point, we'll find all of this quite funny. But now, it's all just so bizarre.

I'd find it funny already, if it just weren't for these stupid reviews heaping praise on D&D.

Which is why I sincerely hope we see some of those awful things Ramsay does in book 5 this season.

Oh, we will. It's been pretty much confirmed by interviews to Iwan Rheon, Alfie Allen. All that remains to find out is who will be the direct target of all the abuse: Sansa or Myranda.

[MarieAntoinette]

Aren't the Unsullied supposed to be good fighters? They sure went down pretty quickly. I hate that they killed off Barristan. I knew it was coming when he was having his talk with Dany. I did not like the Sand Snakes, their scene was very cheesy.

[Good Guy Garlan]

The more I think about Selmy's death, the angrier I get. His four chapters were Meereen's one saving grace, they had more stakes, action, drama, etc than any Dany chapter in aDwD bar Daznak's Pit

And they cut it. Someone said the changes in previous seasons were minor, like cutting out Tom Bombadil and Goldberry

This season it ain't like cutting out Tom Bombadil, though. It's like cutting out freaking Minas Tirith

[Nihlus]

Aren't the Unsullied supposed to be good fighters? They sure went down pretty quickly.

According to Kraznys, yes. According to eight Free Cities and their actual feats, no. Not to mention these were really bad circumstances for them, or at least they would have been if Grey Worm and Barristan weren't acting like video game characters. They were outnumbered and being swarmed in an urban environment.

[The Kinkslayer]

I cannot remember a single thing the sand snakes did in the books, but damn, that scene was awful: Thanks Obara!

With Barristan dead, who the hell is going to hint of Aerys being Tyrion's father? Varys?

My guess is that Sansa is going to poison at least one of Ramsey's girls. But, oh great other: please spare at least Fat Walda.

[MordredDayne]

Nihlus, on 03 May 2015 - 11:16 PM, said:

Okay, okay, I have to address this. Complain about how Barry was treated all you want. But the Unsullied getting dispatched like bitches was the best part of the episode. It's entirely logical considering what they are: physically weak, lightly armored spearmen that are trained in outdated tactics and have had all individual initiative beaten out of them. Of course they're going to be bad combatants, despite what the incredibly stupid slavers say. Especially when facing 2-3 times their numbers, even if their enemies are just basically pissed off civilians with knives. It also works as foreshadowing of how shitty they are since the show doesn't have Bittersteel curb-stomping them with a group of Westerosi exiles.

I'm just curious where you get the idea that they're "physically weak." I'll give you that they are lightly armored and have had the individual initiative beaten out of them, but I don't see how that results in them having such a disastrous showing. Obviously you're not convinced that they should be great fighters, but in the world of the books and the show they are established as good fighters. Not the best, certainly, but I don't think they're depicted as being anywhere near as incompetent as you claim. I could be wrong, though. Is there a certain part of the books you're taking that info from? It would have made sense to me had The Sons of the Harpy continually ambushed them as they did in an earlier episode, with sneak attacks on individual Unsullied. But they faced them in a narrow hall that lessened the advantage of their numbers. They were armed with long spears and shields against men with short swords and daggers. They should have been able to form up two back to back shield walls and at least held for a little while until they were overwhelmed. Instead they immediately broke ranks (something they're famous for never doing) and engaged in single combat, exactly what you wouldn't expect from a group of soldiers with no individual initiative. I get that they needed to die for the sake of the plot. I just wish it had been done in a way that made more sense.

[Lady Olenna]

The only part of this episode I enjoyed was the Stan/Shireen moment. But even that was very un- Stannis.

I know they want to only have 7 seasons but they are cutting way too much out. I really enjoyed the show up to this season. I'm really struggling to understand wtf happened with the writing this season.

[Fjordgazer]

NCOs are required to have individual initiative (and the NCOs are other Unsullied, because Dany is stupid and ignored the advice the slavers gave her).

I implied that.

Contrary to popular belief, muscle strength and especially stamina matter a LOT, and the Unsullied lacking that puts them at a rather huge disadvantage.

But being gelded doesn't mean that they're condemned to be weak scrawny branches. Women lack testes, yet they can be soldiers.

Discipline doesn't really matter in this scenario; they fought to the end and obeyed any order they were given (all one of them).

I thought i mentioned that.

The rest of your comment makes an interesting case on the actual value (or lack thereof) of the Unsullied. But the point remains: the scene was bad. We might not all agree on which points exactly, but we get to the same conclusion.

[Tyrion's Third Wife]

Jaime constantly repeating he doesn't want to start a war, and that's why they are going stealth to get Myrcella.

Right, and when Dorne realizes Myrcella has been whisked away back to KL and the wedding is off that's NOT going to provoke a war?

The Dornish are going to be "Well, he did it quietly, so we'll let this one slide?"

[CarCrashFiance]

Oh the humanity.

The High Sparrow is portrayed as a kindly old man who values Justice, but somehow his followers are all lunatics he apparently does not control. And boy, if we didn't get they hate gays more than anything, they sure made that extra clear.

This is D&D we are dealing with. The same morons who couldn't figure out how to reference current politics subtly....so they just put George Bush's head on a spike. Literally his head on a spike. They have no restraint when they are making a political or social point with GRRM's world. It's why they force white characters to magically transform into black characters from book to page. It's part of their social agenda of liberalism and multiculturalism that they force into the ASOIAF universe. I just laugh at casting announcements now when it is revealed that characters based on European history or tales are played by dark skinned blacks.

I'm expecting gas chambers and swastikas next week. Or Westboro Baptist level street protests. No way are they going to tone things down.

Mel wanting a shadow baby with Jon. For what? To kill Stannis? Can you only get one shadow baby once from one King? Jon should have tossed her across the room.

Maybe D&D are referencing the "shadows in the dark" that want to kill Jon? So Mel is trying to make a shadow baby to kill Jon's enemies that will eventually stab him many times. Or they just want to show lots of tits. It's HBO after all. There has to be a nudity quota for this show.

And Mel got two shadow babies from Stannis. One for Renly and one for Ser Penrose.

[Aetta]

Keeping my fingers crossed that we will see Bran and Bloodraven this year. I can't wait to see Bran shoot Bloodraven's extra eye out with his Red Ryder BB gun.

Better yet will be when Qaithe re-appears and takes off her mask...to reveal that she is really Rhaenys Targaryen! The Mountain didn't crush her afterall! She's actually married to Euron and they've made a new home in Asshai, with two kids and a dog. Euron converted their El Camino to a trusty little dingy.

Sad, though, how the Others ate those direwolves. I sure do miss them.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

My favorite part of this episode - and this whole season, really - was Jorah knocking Saint Tyrion the fuck out. It was cathartic. Shut up, you twit.

Sansa in the crypts of Winterfell was lovely...until I remembered that she's there as part of a nonsensical plan of Batfinger's which was invented by Dumb & Dumber to make for some more "shocking" torture porn. Honestly, she literally has nothing to gain by marrying into House Bolton and so much to lose. If you think Stannis will depose the Boltons and make you Lady of Winterfell and Wardeness of the North, then why marry into the Boltons? You're a Stark; you don't need the name of a detested and distrusted usurper to make your claim. Why not join with Stannis and serve as a rallying point for loyal Northmen? Why not help your friends instead of your foes? Batfinger's leaving Sansa behind surrounded by her enemies is just the cherry on top of this fiasco. First you abandon Robyn, then Sansa? Both of your claims to power because Cersei called?

So instead of a zealous religious movement with fair grievances against the high lords and their game of thrones, the Faith Militant are just a creepy cult that slaughters people in the streets? Having them single out gays is a pathetic attempt by Dumb & Dumber to be culturally relevant.

It looks like they are going to erase Cersei's dissipation, abuse of power, and reaping of what she sowed, and replace it with the tragedy of Good Queen Carol. Also, does the total whitewashing of Qyburn bother anyone else? Gone is the sinister figure conducting human experiments in a dungeon - and gone of course is Cersei sending him her enemies. Meet the new kindly, eccentric Qyburn, who sits around the Small Council smiling in spite of Grand Maester Pycelle picking on him all the time.

The Sand Snakes were underwhelming. They all look and sound alike. Also, it is unclear to me how viewers are supposed to sympathize with them. Oberyn was wonderful and we all miss him, but he died in a fair fight - a duel for which he volunteered. For that, they are going to kill an innocent child? How exactly is that any better than what the Mountain did to Elia and her children? If only they had some voice of reason to remind them of the vicious cycle of vengeance.

If Stannis is remotely responsible for killing Shireen, I will stop watching the show. Not even hate-watching. If he is at all implicated in her death, they will have made him a monster as bad as any Bolton or Frey.

So, they killed Barristan - Ser Barristan, the greatest knight alive and possibly of all time. Good for you, Dumb & Dumber, you got your "shocking" ending, and it only cost you an important and popular character still alive in the books with a major part left to play. Good thing the utterly bland and boring Grey Worm is still around, though. Maybe he can advise Dany about her heritage and the history of Westeros.

It's clear that Dumb & Dumber simply do not get ASOIAF. To them, it's all about "shocks" and the idea that "no one is safe." Those are parts of the story, but just parts. Dumb & Dumber have failed to build the world and create the context that makes the "shocks" bearable. It just feels like we're lurching from "shock" to "shock." I watched tonight's episode with my Unsullied family and Barristan's death really upset them as a creative choice, not as a development in the story. "It feels like the show is nothing but good guys getting killed." "If they keep killing characters, there won't be any left." "I don't know why we keep watching this."

[Cashless Society]

Dave Hill, the guy who came up with Ollie, wrote this episode. Given that, it doesn't surprise me how dumb this episode was.

Dornish patrol men can't even beat a one-handed Jaime?

Didn't the show already fill its boob quota with that brothel scene last week?

Villainising the sparrows was laughably bad.

As if Cersei would ever let Trant guard somebody who does not have a royal title preceding his/her name. Why not Boros or some KG extra? But of course, Plot reasons.

So why the need to kill the snitch? And how the fuck did they intercept him?

Since Jaime is in Dorne, why not go after him and torture him too huh Ellaria Dorkstar? 2 Lannister hostages are better than one

[Bran's Legs]

Just watched the episode...Umm, WTF?!

[larastone]

okay so jaime saying that he wants to die in the arms of the woman he loves...valonqar foreshadowing or brienne failing to protect jaime or killing him??

[moey reed]

it was just a pain to watch!!

the sand snakes are apparently all the same character and just yea "very strong female characters" D&D style ugh

loras is just i cant even find words, i want to cry when he's on..i'll come back later after i've read all the thred had to get this off my chest

and WTF they mention rhaegar TWICE???? i wonder what thats supposed to mean, my unsullied friend was like who the fuck is rhaegar

:bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: