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[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa XV - The stories of Bael(ish)


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And, here we go again...



In a wonderful history lesson provided by Littlefinger, we heard a bit about Harrenhal and what preceded the events of RR. With Stannis casting shadow over WF, the pieces are slowly moving and we see what the possible LF's plans were... Interesting parallel in blue roses and the story of Stark girl being kidnapped and returned home...



As always, keep it civil. And welcome to Discussing Sansa threads...


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Finally, being able to discuss this episode!


That said, no idea how Sansa's supposed to manipulate a psychopath in the level of Ramsay Bolton, but I'm more than willing to be surprised by this show.



Wardeness of the North. Pleased about this name-drop. Without White Harbor, I'm thinking Sansa will be given such a title and send Davos by the end of the season to retrieve her brother, as I'm thinking Theon will tell her he's alive.


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I liked how he looked at her when she said that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna. It looked like he wanted to counter her statement, but he kept quiet.

I figured that we would start getting information about Rhaegar and Lyanna this season in order to set up for an R+L=J reveal. I also liked how we got Melisandre told Jon that he had power in him, and that he resists it. Interested to see what else we get.

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Can we talk about next week's promo here? I'm not clear.



Mainly exposition, but I liked the crypt visuals (and the raven feather dress makes its first actual appearance this season).



Littlefinger's plan still makes no sense.


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Can we talk about next week's promo here? I'm not clear.

Mainly exposition, but I liked the crypt visuals (and the raven feather dress makes its first actual appearance this season).

Littlefinger's plan still makes no sense.

We can, CG.

LF's plan is still completely idiotic. Why not keep Sansa in the Vale, only betrothed to Ramsay, from afar, until the Winterfell issue is solved? I mean, it's not like Sansa's in such a hurry.

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Summary of the Winterfell-related bits from the 5x05 promo:



-Ramsay presumably fucking Myranda up against a window


-Sansa staring up at something from the ground (maybe Ramsay fucking Myranda?)


-Ramsay shooting a creepy glance at Sansa while they're both seated


-Sansa striding swiftly through what looks like a series of cells, looking worried


-Theon recoiling at something or someone in darkness



Thoughts?



Bear in mind that the messed-up scene alluded to by Alfie Allen was supposed to happen midseason or thereabouts. Judging from the 5x05 promo, it looks like 5x05 is a big Winterfell episode, so this could be the episode in question.


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Summary of the Winterfell-related bits from the 5x05 promo:

-Ramsay presumably fucking Myranda up against a window

-Sansa staring up at something from the ground (maybe Ramsay fucking Myranda?)

-Ramsay shooting a creepy glance at Sansa while they're both seated

-Sansa striding swiftly through what looks like a series of cells, looking worried

-Theon recoiling at something or someone in darkness

Thoughts?

Bear in mind that the messed-up scene alluded to by Alfie Allen was supposed to happen midseason or thereabouts. Judging from the 5x05 promo, it looks like 5x05 is a big Winterfell episode, so this could be the episode in question.

I'm thinking Theon will be brought to Sansa's presence, and she'll bear witness to what he suffered. He'll confirm he murdered Sansa's brothers and flayed them, keeping in tone with "Reek proves his loyalty to Ramsay", and I'm thinking Myranda might say something about Sansa, which triggers Ramsay's line "You know what happens to people that bore me." I'm also thinking Sansa will be forced to watch some form of torture regarding Myranda.

Edit: Logically Sansa won't be thrown in the dungeons, considering we have footage of Sansa in her room in subsequent episodes, and she looks for Theon in the seventh episode, which would most likely mean she's still able to move freely in order to do such things.

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Summary of the Winterfell-related bits from the 5x05 promo:

-Ramsay presumably fucking Myranda up against a window

-Sansa staring up at something from the ground (maybe Ramsay fucking Myranda?)

-Ramsay shooting a creepy glance at Sansa while they're both seated

-Sansa striding swiftly through what looks like a series of cells, looking worried

-Theon recoiling at something or someone in darkness

Thoughts?

Bear in mind that the messed-up scene alluded to by Alfie Allen was supposed to happen midseason or thereabouts. Judging from the 5x05 promo, it looks like 5x05 is a big Winterfell episode, so this could be the episode in question.

Yeah, I was interested in the promo for that same reason. Ramsay's line of dialogue is something like "you know what happens when people stop entertaining me" (not the exact wording, but I can't find the promo anywhere yet to get that) -- which really doesn't make much sense as a line to Sansa, but would work as a line to someone who already knows him better. One of the bits we see in the promo, that oft-played Myranda scene, pretty clearly shows she isn't into his attentions now that he's engaged.

I've been extremely skeptical of the arguments that the scene that's being talked-up is centered on violence against Myranda, because, even accounting for normal actor puffery, I have a hard time understanding how Ramsay doing anything to a minor villain would "make huge waves" (even if Sansa was watching, or whatever) -- particularly since we know Myranda has two more episodes, so she's obviously not dying. But the promo at least raises that possibility in my mind.

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Maybe Sansa gets some psychological torture during this? The Boltons sure have a ton of ammunition to use against her re Catelyn, Robb, Bran, and Rickon. I think it'll be "traumatizing" to see Sansa under the threat of the same torture and death her family got directly from the Boltons.


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Well, there is one fool from somewhere that claims to have special powers and has seen all 10, I hope it is complete horseshit but the previews for 5 seem to line up with what was said around this time so I do not know this person could have potentially seen it unless he was an inside the production person.



Enough of that, with what we know by seeing, finally, Sansa seems to 1- find out some unsettling info on her family's demise (truth and BS - boys are alive) or 2- She finds out that Littlefinger has basically betrothed her to a monster incarnate.


I did find the look Ramsay giving Sansa could be either - I wonder how I will torture her or it may be, wow, a highborn maiden Stark, all for me. Myranda may be expendable but he seems to be having fun with her - just like he does with his hunting victims near the end. Who knows?


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Well, there is one fool from somewhere that claims to have special powers and has seen all 10, I hope it is complete horseshit but the previews for 5 seem to line up with what was said around this time so I do not know this person could have potentially seen it unless he was an inside the production person.

If you're talking about that reddit guy, that's already known to be false. His Melisandre spoilers are completely off from what we know about her story.

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Next week's trailer is really showing her a lot.



She'll be in the middle of a huge fight with Stannis coming, I really hope she does something to give her leverage over the North, Littlefinger won't be there but he's advised her.



I don't think something horrible and really threatening will happen to her but she'll just have to endure another hardship for a bit and play the game a bit longer, maybe even a bit better now that compared to before, almost every scene with Sansa seems to be a learning lesson.



Stannis is coming soon and Brienne is trying to look out after her. Wardeness of the North has a nice right to it, lets hope things go somewhat decent for her.



I really like how the show makes her one of the characters that knows about the past, in season one she acknowledged her grandfather and uncle while near the Iron Throne and now her Aunt Lyanna and Rhaegar Targaryen. I wonder how much she knows of Dany....

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If you're talking about that reddit guy, that's already known to be false. His Melisandre spoilers are completely off from what we know about her story.

Yeah, I hope to hell they are false, I was week and read. Almost through up. Still though, I am nervous as hell about it.

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Littlefinger was trying to give her hope that the Wedding will not happen or if Stannis loses, he does not seem to worried about that. He did discuss with Roose a military alliance with the Vale and we do not know if he discussed anything like that in front of Sansa. I think if Littlefinger can, he will let Stannis and Roose beat each other down and Littlefinger, with Vale troops will mop up the rest, both sides, so he is there with the Vale army, having the Eyrie and Winterfell and Sansa all to himself. that is what I think his game is. If he succeeds, he may not have the same Sansa he left in Winterfell if she is even there at the end.


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Yeah, I was interested in the promo for that same reason. Ramsay's line of dialogue is something like "you know what happens when people stop entertaining me" (not the exact wording, but I can't find the promo anywhere yet to get that) -- which really doesn't make much sense as a line to Sansa, but would work as a line to someone who already knows him better. One of the bits we see in the promo, that oft-played Myranda scene, pretty clearly shows she isn't into his attentions now that he's engaged.

I've been extremely skeptical of the arguments that the scene that's being talked-up is centered on violence against Myranda, because, even accounting for normal actor puffery, I have a hard time understanding how Ramsay doing anything to a minor villain would "make huge waves" (even if Sansa was watching, or whatever) -- particularly since we know Myranda has two more episodes, so she's obviously not dying. But the promo at least raises that possibility in my mind.

Yes, I'd be surprised if it was Myranda-directed violence that was supposed to make huge waves, considering that graphic brutality inflicted on second-tier or minor female characters is par for the course in this series (Ros, Talisa, etc. etc.). Furthermore, your point that Myranda is in two episodes post-5x05 is a good one.

I agree that Theon proving his loyalty to Ramsay could be lying about the Stark boys' fate to Sansa. However, in the context of what Alfie Allen said about "bearing witness" to that awful scene, it could be that Theon proves himself to Ramsay by doing nothing while Ramsay is doing whatever horrible thing to which Theon "bears witness."

The way Ramsay looked at Sansa in the promo gave me the heebie-jeebies. Not good. The other lines in the trailer were ominous as well: "You know what happens to people who bore me" and "Sansa's in danger even if she doesn't realize it."

I'm intrigued by that shot of Sansa looking up. Do you suppose she's looking at Ramsay/Myranda? Flayed bodies? The burnt corpses that are supposed to be the Stark boys? Guesses?

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I would write about what I think Littlefinger is up to, but I really have no idea. If Cersei so much as hears from anyone about him helping Sansa escape KL, (or she becomes paranoid enough), Petyr could easily be arrested and imprisoned just like that. Then again, knowing how sneaky and clever he is, he could probably slither his way out of imprisonment, one way or another. That being said, I really don't know what his show counterpart's endgame is.

As for Sansa, I'm still saying that they're going to do a "Lady Stoneheart" story-arc with her and Ramsay this season and possibly/probably going into S6. The only reason I say this is because D&D and some of the writers have been wanting to do this Sansa/Ramsay story line since S2. Why wait 3 seasons for it to finally happen, only to kill him off in a matter of a few episodes? That seems silly to me. Don't get me wrong, I WANT him to die, and I'd like for Sansa to do it, but I don't think it'll be this season.

The LS arc would be so intriguing though...I mean, if Sansa could manipulate someone like freaking Ramsay, then I think that really says how powerful her character could become.

Side-note: Next week's promo didn't look pleasant for her. I wonder if Ramsay's gonna make her watch Theon being tortured or something? Not sure.

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New material. Sophie Turner speaks about Sansa and Littlefinger.



Look at Sophie's look in the talking head. She's wearing the same black feather dress, but with a Catelyn-style collar, and she has braided red hair in her Northern hairstyle. The dye (well, wig, but you know what I mean) is gone!



Side-note: Next week's promo didn't look pleasant for her. I wonder if Ramsay's gonna make her watch Theon being tortured or something? Not sure.


If next episode has that scene that Alfie Allen's been talking about that was supposed to happen midseason, it sounds as if Theon will be watching whatever horrible thing happens, meaning that it will be done to someone else. From the way he spoke about it, it sounded as if Alfie Allen would have to convey the awfulness of what was happening through his own reactions.


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We can, CG.

LF's plan is still completely idiotic. Why not keep Sansa in the Vale, only betrothed to Ramsay, from afar, until the Winterfell issue is solved? I mean, it's not like Sansa's in such a hurry.

Because he needs the opportunity to get Stannis' support for Sansa's claim, which as LF outlined, is plan A.

There is no way in the 7 hells that Stannis would support Sansa if she was hangin' out with Littlefinger in the Vale. He'd rightly assume she was just his puppet, and he's not putting Littlefinger in charge of the north willingly.

But, if Littlefinger is no where to be found, and Sansa kneels before Stannis after the liberation of Winterfell and tells him how she undermined the boltons' (and maybe killed Ramsey herself...), well, I think he'd say "Rise Lady Sansa Stark, I name you heir to Lady of Winterfell. Your father was an honorable man."

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I wonder if Ramsay's gonna make her watch Theon being tortured or something? Not sure.

At this juncture, wouldn't he expect her to enjoy watching Theon be tortured, seeing as he supposedly murdered her brothers?

I'm really kind of interested to see how the writers approach her interactions with Theon, since realistically she should hate him, so having her immediately trying to help him out or whatever wouldn't make sense at all (besides which, the show has portrayed her as much colder than the book version, as far as empathy goes).

Because he needs the opportunity to get Stannis' support for Sansa's claim, which as LF outlined, is plan A.

There is no way in the 7 hells that Stannis would support Sansa if she was hangin' out with Littlefinger in the Vale. He'd rightly assume she was just his puppet, and he's not putting Littlefinger in charge of the north willingly.

But, if Littlefinger is no where to be found, and Sansa kneels before Stannis after the liberation of Winterfell and tells him how she undermined the boltons' (and maybe killed Ramsey herself...), well, I think he'd say "Rise Lady Sansa, I name you heir to Winterfell. Your father was an honorable man."

Stannis hasn't been established as having any antipathy to Littlefinger in the show. But regardless, if that's his concern, just send her to the Wall on her own, and it achieves the same thing.

Moreover, there's no way that Sansa being associated with Littlefinger could be kept secret, and Littlefinger was intending to stay at Winterfell until Cersei's message came.

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New material. Sophie Turner

about Sansa and Littlefinger.

Look at Sophie's look in the talking head. She's wearing the same black feather dress, but with a Catelyn-style collar, and she has braided red hair in her Northern hairstyle. The dye (well, wig, but you know what I mean) is gone!

If next episode has that scene that Alfie Allen's been talking about that was supposed to happen midseason, it sounds as if Theon will be watching whatever horrible thing happens, meaning that it will be done to someone else. From the way he spoke about it, it sounded as if Alfie Allen would have to convey the awfulness of what was happening through his own reactions.

Oh shit, you could be totally right. That'd be awful. I also read somewhere where Iwan said he had to psychically prepare to do a pretty bad scene this season? If that indeed is the case, then it has to be worse than anything he did to Theon in S3,seeing as how Iwan said he didn't have a huge problem acting out any of those torture scenes because the majority of them used prosthetics and fake blood.

Is has to be some sort of rape scenario, or at the very least...some type of sexual assault? I mean, what could be worse than cutting a guy's dick off? That's what I'm thinking.

And now the question is, is that if it's Theon indeed witnessing something horrible to prove his loyalty, then which girl will he have to watch being terrorized by Ramsay? I'd like to think Myranda, but I'm just not sure. It'd totally be in character for him to approach Sansa and say: "So, since I'm gonna be your husband soon, I'm totally gonna rape you now."

God, I cringed while writing that. I HOPE that's not what happens. Maybe it won't be as bad as we think, but knowing D&D, you just never know.

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