[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa XV - The stories of Bael(ish)

[nationalanthem91]

A rape by Ramsay would practically be anti-climactic because rapes happen in virtually every episode.

Besides, rape isn't worse than a dismemberment, unless of course it includes a dismemberment.

Has to be a flaying, or something close to it. Something really icky that results in hoping that the character is killed to be put out of their misery..

Rapes don't happen that often on the show. The only incidents that I can think of is the controversial Jaime/Cersei scene at Joff's body, and of course, when Dany and Drogo first get married.

[Uldra I]

In the preview, Ramsay says "you remember what happens to people who bore me". Since Sansa just met Ramsay, she can't remember anything about him, so he is not saying this line to Sansa.

really good point!

[Lord Damian]

A couple of thoughts.

I think Littlefinger may have planted some servants in Winterfell that serve him so long as he appears to be doing it for "The Starks". The Old lady is clearly one of them.

We are being led to believe that Sansa will carry out Littlefinger's wishes to the end but i think the info that she is bound to find out - that her brothers are still alive and Rickon is the most ATTAINABLE will make her plot her own and more importantly, her family's course and Littlefinger, Boltons and Stannis be damned. She will suffer some, hopefully she will not have to give up her innocense but at this point, it seems as good as done. This is so interesting as it did not happen in the books this way and dreadfull that we care about her and we know what she does not yet, that Ramsay is mentally disturbed to the worst degrees of humanity.

[Mithras]

Lol. Even if we forget everything in the past that makes it impossible for Stannis to forgive LF, how can Stannis take LF as an ally after he gave a Stark to the Boltons, especially at such a time Stannis was looking for a Stark to rally the Northmen at his back?

[Lord Damian]

But why would Roose agree to an engagement if he knew that was a possibility? He wants their marriage to calm things down in the North, not make things worse.

This is what scares me the most, Roose will need the Wedding to take place ASAP so Ramsay can consummate it and get a bolton heir in that Stark belly of hers. The only thing that may delay this is the desire for Northern bannermen to come and whitness the event to give it more credibility. If that is the case, good for Sansa as she needs time to get out of this. IF it is not the case, then Alfie Allen's statement about mid-season could be within 2 weeks.

[Good Guy Garlan]

And THAT would be amazing on TV, for sure. Sansa eating lemoncakes in the Vale for 3 seasons, that's what we all want! :bowdown:

I agree, stretching Sansa's 3 aFfC chapters over an entire season would make for a terrible, terrible tv show

BUT...she didn't have to hijack Theon's storyline.

[Lord Damian]

i wonder if GRRM regrets not giving Sansa more of a story in the Vale in the last 2 books now that they have placed Sophie Turner into this pressure cooker?

[lojzelote]

And yet Sansa fans should like the idea since whatever happens to Sansa her importance within the plot - and the screentime she gets - are much higher that way. No matter what happens to her I think her character will stay in the story for a while yet and just like Tyrion she won't lose her nose to frostbite since this is too complicated to CGI.

No, seriously, why should fans like it if their favorite stays away from all danger at the expense of staying outside of all action. Just like with Jon, Tyrion, Arya or Cersei we do not know what will happen to Sansa and that keeps us interested.

I mean, Shireen or Jon are in REAL danger to die!

The thing is, this is not Sansa's story at all. IMHO if they didn't want to adapt the Vale arc, they should have leave her out (like Bran) except maybe two or three scenes which show her making great friends over there or whatever she's supposed to do. This is totally unnecessary and repetitive (to how many sadistic psychopaths is an average girl betrothed during the first fifteen years of her life anyway?), it doesn't make any sense whatsoever in the greater narrative, and takes away focus from the real protagonist of the Winterfell ADwD arc.

[hallam]

I agree, stretching Sansa's 3 aFfC chapters over an entire season would make for a terrible, terrible tv show

BUT...she didn't have to hijack Theon's storyline.

What, you worried that they have cut out the 'best bits'?

[ADanceWithCats]

But why would Roose agree to an engagement if he knew that was a possibility? He wants their marriage to calm things down in the North, not make things worse.

Because the Northern culture, just like the one in King's Landing, values men over women. (Remember, for all the talk about LF not vetting Ramsay, Ned didn't vet Joffrey properly, either.) Roose thinks that if Ramsay gets Sansa pregnant fast enough, the North will accept the status quo - there will be, after all, a ruling *line*.

[Good Guy Garlan]

i wonder if GRRM regrets not giving Sansa more of a story in the Vale in the last 2 books now that they have placed Sophie Turner into this pressure cooker?

He better, this is his fault.

I still lol occasionally when I remember he said D&D could take three seasons to adapt Feast/Dance. I want whatever he was smoking. I mean, I couldn't squeeze half a season out of those books, let alone three

What, you worried that they have cut out the 'best bits'?

Too soon!

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Lol. Even if we forget everything in the past that makes it impossible for Stannis to forgive LF, how can Stannis take LF as an ally after he gave a Stark to the Boltons, especially at such a time Stannis was looking for a Stark to rally the Northmen at his back?

He's not. He's taking Sansa Stark as an ally.

Presumably LF is relying on Sansa working in his favor after she is WotN.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

The thing is, this is not Sansa's story at all. IMHO if they didn't want to adapt the Vale arc, they should have leave her out (like Bran) except maybe two or three scenes which show her making great friends over there or whatever she's supposed to do. This is totally unnecessary and repetitive (to how many sadistic psychopaths is an average girl betrothed during the first fifteen years of her life anyway?), it doesn't make any sense whatsoever in the greater narrative, and takes away focus from the real protagonist of the Winterfell ADwD arc.

We don't even know what's going to happen in Winterfell to make that claim. Theon can still have his moments. Reek chapters are almost all exclusively internal monologue and overhearing things. It doesn't translate all that well to screen so giving him more to work with than descriptions of how foul Ramsey and his boys are is fine in my book, and takes care of the problem of having to cast Sansa's old childhood friend out of the blue and makes us actually care about her. D&D love Alfie Allen and Theon as a character so I believe he will get his due. Simply writing out a star of the show is only something you do when you have no choice, like Bran, who has going to have to be written out due to the nature of the source material. I find the possibility of Sansa and Theon interacting quite exciting, actually.

[Lord Damian]

He better, this is his fault.

I still lol occasionally when I remember he said D&D could take three seasons to adapt Feast/Dance. I want whatever he was smoking. I mean, I couldn't squeeze half a season out of those books, let alone three

Too soon!

yeah, D & D screwd up with 2 seasons for ASOS and now are pressing FEAST/DANCE into one.

[Ingelheim]

Lol. Even if we forget everything in the past that makes it impossible for Stannis to forgive LF, how can Stannis take LF as an ally after he gave a Stark to the Boltons, especially at such a time Stannis was looking for a Stark to rally the Northmen at his back?

He is taking Sansa Stark as an ally. LF knows Stannis needs a Stark to rule the North, so Sansa is there to fill that gap. And LF hopes that Sansa will help him, like she did with Lord Royce.

[Mish Windage]

Thinking the Sansa taking on some of LS stuff is correct. Have a feeling Sansa is going to look kinda like a bad guy for a bit. If the LS-ish thing is true, and with Brienne coming... get a rope? Have a feeling Sansa's going to come to the edge of doing some bad things to Brie and Pod.

[Ingelheim]

Thinking the Sansa taking on some of LS stuff is correct. Have a feeling Sansa is going to look kinda like a bad guy for a bit. If the LS-ish thing is true, and with Brienne coming... get a rope? Have a feeling Sansa's going to come to the edge of doing some bad things to Brie and Pod.

On the contrary, I think her arc this season will end with her getting the hell out of Winterfell with Brienne and Pod, riding North, probably seeking for Jon or Rickon.

[Tharvot]

In the preview, Ramsay says "you remember what happens to people who bore me". Since Sansa just met Ramsay, she can't remember anything about him, so he is not saying this line to Sansa.

He's undoubtedly saying it to Reek. Possibly to the other girl.

Considering that Baelish and Sansa rode off in a carriage together, they'd have to be dumb not to know that he took her there himself, seeing as they would have had to have left via the Bloody Gate. And we know from filming and the trailers that Littlefinger is in King's Landing.

No, it doesn't make sense, because none of that requires Sansa to go to Winterfell and put herself in mortal danger. All they have to do is wait for the battle to be over and see who wins, from a safe distance.

Sure it does. He's delivering her there whereas she was MIA before. The promise of delivering Sansa means nothing. Delivering the genuine article means the world. You could argue he is making the move too quickly, but I have a feeling LF knows what hes doing.

[Woman of War]

The thing is, this is not Sansa's story at all. IMHO if they didn't want to adapt the Vale arc, they should have leave her out (like Bran) except maybe two or three scenes which show her making great friends over there or whatever she's supposed to do. This is totally unnecessary and repetitive (to how many sadistic psychopaths is an average girl betrothed during the first fifteen years of her life anyway?), it doesn't make any sense whatsoever in the greater narrative, and takes away focus from the real protagonist of the Winterfell ADwD arc.

I do not think that the degree of horror happening to Sansa - or not - will be different from the books. The story may differ, may develop faster and happen at another place. If Sansa is at Winterfell now she will sooner or later be there in the books too. And if Sansa goes through hell in the series it will happen in the books as well, though maybe with different characters around her. I do not think at all that Martin will spare her while the show invents cruelties that never happen, certainly not those who may have a fundamental impact on a character.

But you are right: the real protagonist of the Winterfell arc is Reek who becomes Theon again and that story is so compelling, so wonderfully written that I would not want anyone, not even Sansa, to overshadow Alfie Allen. And so maybe Sansa will be partially there to support Theon's development which is not bad since the actor is incredible. But the alternative for Sansa's character would be: not to be there for most of the season.

[Tagganaro]

On the contrary, I think her arc this season will end with her getting the hell out of Winterfell with Brienne and Pod, riding North, probably seeking for Jon or Rickon.

Yes, definitely leaning towards this as well. ALthough Brienne could take Mance's place as well and be stuck in Winterfell, I'm thinking Sansa is going North to Jon at the end of the season. I always imagined them meeting up again since they've been the closest together in the books, geographically at least.