[Book Spoilers Inc WoW Chapters] Ser Barristan Selmy

[Holymoly]

Im expecting jorah to come back and take place that he had at least on the show. Makes sense to me since he will come back in some form there cant be two advisors.

Agreed. Mormont will take over from Selmy with Tyrion providing the lulz (god alone knows Danerys needs some). I'm just concerned by the Unsullied evolving from killing machines to being able to be turned over by a few guys in masks with limited vision.

[Vvornth]

The finest knight in The Seven Kingdoms brought down by a bunch of upper class chavs?

Ok.

[Attitude]

Once the finest knight in The Seven Kingdoms brought down by a bunch of upper class chavs?

Ok.

Fixed that for ya. Don't forget he was old.

[zhivik]

I'll go with the Jorah-as-ser-Barristan theory, as it looks like the most probable one. After all, the two shifted roles when ser Barristan first appeared, and we have Jorah with Tyrion anyways, so there you go. The other possibility is Daario, which I'm also meh about, but I'd say Jorah is the more likely candidate for that role. By the way, this also implies that ser Barristan may die in the books as well, only later (possibly in the Battle of Fire). Regarding the battle, I still expect it to happen, because it is a good way to wrap up the Meereen story arc. Of course, they may go simply with Drogon taking away Daeneris, but it would be letdown.

As far as uniting characters, it seems to happen a lot in this season, We have already seen where Arianne Martell went - hello Ellaria Sand 2.0, or Loras Tyrell and the Kettleblacks, or Sansa Stark as Jeyne Poole, so it would be entirely within B&W's style to do it with other, no matter how beloved characters. I think we will also have Bronn standing for ser Balon Swann. But before complaining of how the show is going so much away from the books, just consider that written material is running out very fast, so it's mostly GRRM to blame for the differences.

Maybe it's for the best - this way when the books are finally written, we will have something new to deal with. Until then, I intend to enjoy the series, not comparing them with the books anymore.

[Sambo Shaw]

The finest knight in The Seven Kingdoms brought down by a bunch of upper class chavs?

Ok.

It is strongly suggested by Hizdar that the SOTH who do the actual fighting are not the upper class masters, but the trained slaves. The masters may be acting as Generals, but the slaves are the soldiers...at least I HOPE that turns out to be the case.

[Lord Varys]

Well, Meereen doesn't have any trained slave soldiers. Especially not after Daenerys has freed them. The Sons may coerce some lower-class people into doing their bidding but they can't coerce fighting skills into them, or can they?

[Sambo Shaw]

Well, Meereen doesn't have any trained slave soldiers. Especially not after Daenerys has freed them. The Sons may coerce some lower-class people into doing their bidding but they can't coerce fighting skills into them, or can they?

They have fighting slaves. Gladiator pits? Not a army, but warriors still.

[Lord Varys]

Yeah, well, you know how Barristan deals with fighting slaves, don't you? Not to mention that those slaves would have been freed - why the hell would they serve their masters again?

[Lord Lannister]

Yeah, well, you know how Barristan deals with fighting slaves, don't you? Not to mention that those slaves would have been freed - why the hell would they serve their masters again?

Because they're Mereenese and Dany isn't. In the end she is a foreign conqueror who knows little of their culture and values. Sadly, we as readers/viewers don't know much either. At least they cut those silly bunny ears.

[The Eunuch]

I'm sad for Barristan but the good thing is that Tyrion will meet Dany this season and play the part of Barristan when she's gone! Tyrion back in the game, I'm so excited!! :drool:

[The Dragon has three heads]

Cause they are poor and hungry and only have one skill.

Anyway. Beside the point.

'The old guy'.

I blame this for not dressing him as a kings guard around Danny. Similar, but not the same costume as tommens KG to show her westerosi roots.

But no.

More of the internal struggle and difficulty of telling Danny of aerys true madness and his misdeeds. Of Joanna and tywin, of feeling that Dayne had more of rhaegars trust, of the current divisions of westeros and news from the 7 kingdoms and essos.

But no.

The management of the defense of mereen and the beacon for Dannie's arriving westerosi allies while drogon eats khal pono.

But no.

On top of that, the actor was dissappointed in being cut. Which I think shows poor management. He was excited to play barristans ADWD arc. That's the kind of actor you want.

...right?

Can't. Even.

[sifth]

I never felt Barristan was portrayed right on tv. I mean for example this was the first episode he actually fought.

[Sambo Shaw]

Yeah, well, you know how Barristan deals with fighting slaves, don't you? Not to mention that those slaves would have been freed - why the hell would they serve their masters again?

Just trying to read between the lines of Hizdar's speech, but...He implies that Dany is choking out the culture of Mereen in some ways that many will fight against. In particular, the fighting pits. According to his speech, the fighting pits serve an important role and are a big part of many people's, slave and master, identity. What I took from it was, even though most of the slaves in Mereen are immensely thankful to have been freed, others are so institutionalized by aspects of their lives that they will continue to identify with the masters and even fight for them to try to regain that missing part of their lives.

[Woman of War]

I'm sad for Barristan but the good thing is that Tyrion will meet Dany this season and play the part of Barristan when she's gone! Tyrion back in the game, I'm so excited!! :drool:

You are absolutely right......

..........and yet I love it when old guys rule

..........................farewell Ser Grandfather :(

[aFeastForDragons]

We won't be seeing the Battle of Ice on the show anyway.

[boojam]

Ser Barristan the Bold.

Is dead.

Or pretty much dead. I wasn't quite sure if he was or not, but then the episode 5 preview appears to show him lying cold and dead in some sort of funeral.

This saddens me, in ADWD he became such a good character and one of my favourites.

Perhaps on the show they want to set up Daario as Dany's only close advisor for the moment?

[WoW Spoilers] Also for those who have read Barristan I-2 excerpt chapters George released from WoW, he is one of the main commanders is the army, for what will be known as the battle of fire.

How will this change? Is Grey Worm dead as well? He also features in those chapters.

What did you all think of this change? And who will take his place if anyone in his later arc from ADWD?

Taking the Winds of Winter chapters into account this is a big head scratcher, especially if Grey Worm dies.

The WoW 'leaked' chapters have a whale of battle going on for the breaking of the siege of Meereen.

Barristan is directing the Meereen forces and Grey Worm is his chief captain leading the Unsullied.

But it's more than this. The Iron Fleet is arriving and fighting as uninvited allies for Meereen, the Sell Sword companies hired by the Slaver Coalition are deserting to Meereen, to top it all off there is a hint that Dany and Drogon are on the way with a host of Dothraki. The Slaver army is toast!(The Dothraki thing might not happen, we shall see.)

It's a confluence of Dany, Victarion , Tyrion, Jorah, Selmy and I guess Daario.

So this is the merging of a lot of arcs which makes sense, by now!

The Iron Born written out of the story show wise at this point, that may not be clear till next season.

So if the show drops this battle how do things go?

Someone mentioned it, it could mean not spoiling Winds , it will be a totally different story for a while in the book.

Now Selmy could be killed in the battle , not an unusual thing, but would live till the end of the battle.

If Grey Worm were to die, what the hell? Hunt for a new casting for the Unsullied leader? That seems awkward.

Write the Unsullied out of the show story? That seems even more awkward.

By the by what if Ser Barry survives to the end of Dream? In the books?

[Ser Frasier of House Crane]

I like Barristan, but I do feel that he's not long for this world in the books, and if they're hastening Tyrion to Daenerys quicker than in the novels, I feel it was only a matter of time before the old knight died. And at least he went down fighting.

My biggest problem with axing Barristan is how they framed the sequence itself. Why spare him from getting his throat cut if he was just going to bite it in the next episode anyway? They should've swapped him and Grey Worm in that scene and have the Son of the Harpy try to slash Grey Worm's throat, and then (with the last of his strength) Barristan kills the Son before expiring.

[Daenerys_Is_Coming]

This is bullshit. Keeping up with all the characters in the show is way harder compared to the books. Some characters are only mentioned once or twice in en entire season, and some aren't even called by their name at all. (I totally missed the ' 2nd mountain' in season 2 for instance)

I can totally understand that some people have problems following who is who and what all their arcs are. There is a lot of info that isn't in the show.

We just have to accept that this season things are changing rapidly from the books and that we aren't prepared for everything.

Do you talk to your mom with that mouth? :bs:

The idea that it is "too hard" for viewers to keep track of characters is ridiculous. Sorry, but it insults my intelligence that D+D think we are not able to wrap our tiny little brains around a multi-layered lore with dozens of main players. We already lost the entire Iron Islands.....

The argument that Dany can only have one advisor (here comes Tyrion!) is just as silly. Small council anyone? In Season One, Ned, Varys, Littlefinger, Renly and Pycelle all served on Robert's council, and guess what.... We were all able to keep track of the characters just fine. It's just lazy writing if you ask me and a ay to "dumb it down" for the masses.

[Ser Frasier of House Crane]

Do you talk to your mom with that mouth? :bs:

The idea that it is "too hard" for viewers to keep track of characters is ridiculous. Sorry, but it insults my intelligence that D+D think we are not able to wrap our tiny little brains around a multi-layered lore with dozens of main players. We already lost the entire Iron Islands.....

The argument that Dany can only have one advisor (here comes Tyrion!) is just as silly. Small council anyone? In Season One, Ned, Varys, Littlefinger, Renly and Pycelle all served on Robert's council, and guess what.... We were all able to keep track of the characters just fine. It's just lazy writing if you ask me and a ay to "dumb it down" for the masses.

But if Barristan is going to die in the upcoming battle in WoW and Tyrion takes his place as an adviser to Daenerys in the novels, and they are accelerating Tyrion's arrival to Meereen, there's no much use in keeping Barristan around. The show isn't dumbing things down; it's streamlining it. D&D don't think the audience is too stupid to keep track of all the characters, but some characters will eventually become superfluous in the adaptation.

[Daenerys_Is_Coming]

But if Barristan is going to die in the upcoming battle in WoW and Tyrion takes his place as an adviser to Daenerys in the novels, and they are accelerating Tyrion's arrival to Meereen, there's no much use in keeping Barristan around.

Very fair point! My argument was more along the lines that why does Dany's entourage need to be streamlined at this point? Tyrion is on his way - but not quite there yet - and there's lots of room for multiple advisors to the Queen. She needs a small council just as much as any ruler of the Seven Kindgoms did, and right now all she's got is Daario and a wounded Grey Worm.

I think they're just using his death as a catalyst to make Dany take action.