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[Book Spoilers Inc WoW Chapters] Ser Barristan Selmy


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I think you're out of luck. The preview for episode 5 seemed to be pretty clear as to Selmy's fate.

That doesn't mean he died in the fight, though. He could very easily be alive in the beginning of the episode and be able to talk to Dany about something...I would say that's a good reason not to slit his throat outright. He could die later on in the episode.

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He's not dead. Else they wouldn't have shown that the Harpy unsucessfully tried to slit his throat. Otherwise it will be very extra and they wouldn't need to give him the airtime anyway. So the scene has to serve a purpose to show that he was not killed.

The general thought is that Barristanwill have a few last words of advice for Dany before he dies. He'll whisper something to her on his death bed ... hence the no throat slitting.

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Ser Barristans death was the most realistic scene TV has shown.

Game of Thrones is a fantasy not a superhero series. The old man had himself to blame. Quoting jorah "Aye armor makes you slow but lets you live"

Meeting 20 people with daggers, the fight was brilliant. Selmy shows some experienced moves. But when he got a stab, he slowed down. Imagine how painful it is.. You fight back you may hit one but by the mean time you get more stabs.

If it upsets you that an old knight without armor who was clearly outnumbered died after putting up a very good fight, please go back to your superhero movies is all I have to say to those who just cannot comprehend how SOTH killed the former knight

I think people are far less upset about the way he died, than the timing of it all. Why kill him now when Dany is already short on advisors? Tyrion's not there yet, Grey Worm is injured, and all she's got is dumb Daario. The king of the Iron Throne has at least 5 - 7 members of the small council, why the need to thin Dany's entourage? A lot of people have made the argument for thinning, but I guess I don't get it.

The worst part is that Barristan didn't do anything at all for four seasons and then the kill him off right before his story is supposed to get good. His monologue and speech to the troops in the WOW chapter is amazing.

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I think people are far less upset about the way he died, than the timing of it all. Why kill him now when Dany is already short on advisors? Tyrion's not there yet, Grey Worm is injured, and all she's got is dumb Daario. The king of the Iron Throne has at least 5 - 7 members of the small council, why the need to thin Dany's entourage? A lot of people have made the argument for thinning, but I guess I don't get it.

The worst part is that Barristan didn't do anything at all for four seasons and then the kill him off right before his story is supposed to get good. His monologue and speech to the troops in the WOW chapter is amazing.

Probably to make tyrions value to dany very important.

Old ser might have advised against having a lannister advise her.

She is lonely, lost and then the imp comes to her rescue. Thats what I thought

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I think people are far less upset about the way he died, than the timing of it all. Why kill him now when Dany is already short on advisors? Tyrion's not there yet, Grey Worm is injured, and all she's got is dumb Daario. The king of the Iron Throne has at least 5 - 7 members of the small council, why the need to thin Dany's entourage? A lot of people have made the argument for thinning, but I guess I don't get it.

The worst part is that Barristan didn't do anything at all for four seasons and then the kill him off right before his story is supposed to get good. His monologue and speech to the troops in the WOW chapter is amazing.

Killing him now makes her situation more desperate. Who does she trusts? Who does she turn to? Will she hold herself responsible for not leaving for Westeros?

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This entire thread seems based on a one-second scene, filmed at a distance, that may or may not have shown Barristan Selmy lying in state. The person on the table looked bald to me, had no rocks on his eyes, and was gone way too quickly to really see anything. Why would HBO spoiler this in a preview? Why would they show him getting slightly stabbed and then spared from a certain-death throat slit by Grey Worm if they're just going to kill him? They may be trying to make all of us think that Barristan is dead, but I don't think anything definitive can be said just yet.


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Either Selmy is dead, or everyone is made to think he's dead so that he can operate in secrecy to find the Harpy, but I strongly suspect he may have died. Then again, the trailers tend to cut-and-paste scenes to spread confusion often enough. I've seen them cut a line from one scene and paste it after another to make it appear something happened which didn't happen at all. HBO ensures people watch this way, good for them. We'll all have to wait and see and be surprised! ;)


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I so want to be unhappy about this but I'm not.



1.) Taking out Barriston does a lot for Dany's plotline. It makes her vulnerable and severs her only tie to the 'Westerosi way' and the memory of her ancestry. It paves the way very well for her to re-open the pits, marry Hizdahr etc. as desperate measures to regain some control in Meereen.



2.) We did get to see Barriston go through six guys like butter.



3.) There's no way we could have gotten his DWD/WOW plotline because I'm sure the whole battle of Meereen stuff is going to be completely excised in favour of a much quicker tying-off of Dany's Essos story.



4.) At first I was disappointed that Barriston the Bold didn't go out in some epic battle scene, or defending Dany's honour in a duel. But on consideration I think this is the most appropriate ending for him, because Barriston is above all a true knight. Perhaps the last true knight in the world. And a knight's duty is not to lead armies, or to defend queens; a knight's duty is to protect the innocent. Barriston hears the massacre in the alleyway and, with no understanding of who's killing or being killed or how many opponents he might face, hurries to defend those being attacked. At his most off-guard moment, Barriston acts like a true knight without a moment's thought. He dies doing nothing spectacular or memorable or glorious; he dies doing a knight's duty, nothing more.



If I may be permitted a non-canon quote:



"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong. That is your oath."



Couldn't ask for a better end, IMO.


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That doesn't mean he died in the fight, though. He could very easily be alive in the beginning of the episode and be able to talk to Dany about something...I would say that's a good reason not to slit his throat outright. He could die later on in the episode.

I think this will probably happen, so I hope he has a classy send off, what important last advice could he give her?

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Why are so many people just assuming they will not include the Battle of Fire? Granted they have had no foreshadowing of the threat from outside of Mereen at this point, the Yunkaii, Xaro (couldn't make it because he is in a vault), Pentoshi fleet, Greyjoys etc. I reckon they will wait and make that arc, leading up to the battle, next season.



This season concluding with Daznak's Pit, Drogon, hopefully Dothraki and maybe the other dragons destroying the pyramid by themselves, or because Hizdar tries to kill them after Drogon takes Dany. That would fit with the characters I think. I'm pretty sure there is no Quentin at all.


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Why are so many people just assuming they will not include the Battle of Fire? Granted they have had no foreshadowing of the threat from outside of Mereen at this point, the Yunkaii, Xaro (couldn't make it because he is in a vault), Pentoshi fleet, Greyjoys etc. I reckon they will wait and make that arc, leading up to the battle, next season.

This season concluding with Daznak's Pit, Drogon, hopefully Dothraki and maybe the other dragons destroying the pyramid by themselves, or because Hizdar tries to kill them after Drogon takes Dany. That would fit with the characters I think. I'm pretty sure there is no Quentin at all.

Seven seasons. Assuming Dany flies away on Drogon at the end of this season, this gives the show 20 episodes to complete the entire story. How many episodes do you need to set up, depict and adequately show the aftermath of a huge Meereen battle? Five? Maybe a whole season?

There's just no time for it. And it is, in the end, just filler. A distraction from Dany's real story, which is back in Westeros. I don't think we'll see her meet up with a Khalasar again either. Maybe a few scattered Dothraki. But she''ll be in Dorne end next season, mark my words.

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I'm torn on this. I love Barriston like the next guy, but I think there was a general feeling that he was going to be getting killed off in TWoW regardless. His death now sucks, especially the way it happened, but I expected him to die anyways.



There's always that chance he survived. It didn't look good, but it's possible. I believe the creators said that Tyrion would not be meeting Dany in this season (saving it for next?), so there is a small gap to play out first. Selmy could very well survive.


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Seven seasons. Assuming Dany flies away on Drogon at the end of this season, this gives the show 20 episodes to complete the entire story. How many episodes do you need to set up, depict and adequately show the aftermath of a huge Meereen battle? Five? Maybe a whole season?

There's just no time for it. And it is, in the end, just filler. A distraction from Dany's real story, which is back in Westeros. I don't think we'll see her meet up with a Khalasar again either. Maybe a few scattered Dothraki. But she''ll be in Dorne end next season, mark my words.

Seven seasons. Assuming Dany flies away on Drogon at the end of this season, this gives the show 20 episodes to complete the entire story. How many episodes do you need to set up, depict and adequately show the aftermath of a huge Meereen battle? Five? Maybe a whole season?

There's just no time for it. And it is, in the end, just filler. A distraction from Dany's real story, which is back in Westeros. I don't think we'll see her meet up with a Khalasar again either. Maybe a few scattered Dothraki. But she''ll be in Dorne end next season, mark my words.

I guess it depends on what Dany's arc will be from the final two books, because D&D will have planned out what they want her to do leading upto the endgame. Yes it will likely be a massive battle, but that means it will be a really important part in the narrative, not only for Dany and the dragons, but also Tyrion and other characters. She could ride Drogon into battle, could have a new Dothraki Khalasar, could lose the other dragons, there are so many things that could happen, that will not only be important in themselves but will hugely effect the Dany going to Westeros arc, if as everyone seems to assume, she does get there soon. Most of ADWD leads up to this huge battle, I really hope they wouldn't just skip something so big.

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Seven seasons. Assuming Dany flies away on Drogon at the end of this season, this gives the show 20 episodes to complete the entire story. How many episodes do you need to set up, depict and adequately show the aftermath of a huge Meereen battle? Five? Maybe a whole season?

There's just no time for it. And it is, in the end, just filler. A distraction from Dany's real story, which is back in Westeros. I don't think we'll see her meet up with a Khalasar again either. Maybe a few scattered Dothraki. But she''ll be in Dorne end next season, mark my words.

Seven seasons. Assuming Dany flies away on Drogon at the end of this season, this gives the show 20 episodes to complete the entire story. How many episodes do you need to set up, depict and adequately show the aftermath of a huge Meereen battle? Five? Maybe a whole season?

There's just no time for it. And it is, in the end, just filler. A distraction from Dany's real story, which is back in Westeros. I don't think we'll see her meet up with a Khalasar again either. Maybe a few scattered Dothraki. But she''ll be in Dorne end next season, mark my words.

I guess it depends on what Dany's arc will be from the final two books, because D&D will have planned out what they want her to do leading upto the endgame. Yes it will likely be a massive battle, but that means it will be a really important part in the narrative, not only for Dany and the dragons, but also Tyrion and other characters. She could ride Drogon into battle, could have a new Dothraki Khalasar, could lose the other dragons, there are so many things that could happen, that will not only be important in themselves but will hugely effect the Dany going to Westeros arc, if as everyone seems to assume, she does get there soon. Most of ADWD leads up to this huge battle, I really hope they wouldn't just skip something so big.

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Seven seasons. Assuming Dany flies away on Drogon at the end of this season, this gives the show 20 episodes to complete the entire story. How many episodes do you need to set up, depict and adequately show the aftermath of a huge Meereen battle? Five? Maybe a whole season?

There's just no time for it. And it is, in the end, just filler. A distraction from Dany's real story, which is back in Westeros. I don't think we'll see her meet up with a Khalasar again either. Maybe a few scattered Dothraki. But she''ll be in Dorne end next season, mark my words.

I guess it depends on what Dany's arc will be from the final two books, because D&D will have planned out what they want her to do leading upto the endgame. Yes it will likely be a massive battle, but that means it will be a really important part in the narrative, not only for Dany and the dragons, but also Tyrion and other characters. She could ride Drogon into battle, could have a new Dothraki Khalasar, could lose the other dragons, there are so many things that could happen, that will not only be important in themselves but will hugely effect the Dany going to Westeros arc, if as everyone seems to assume, she does get there soon. Most of ADWD leads up to this huge battle, I really hope they wouldn't just skip something so big.

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I hate "those" kind of book fans.

Any frikkin thing D&D do, they'll say it was wrong. The show is ruined. Everything! Why?

They said their plot will end up at the same place.

And GRRM itself told everyone. "Its like asking someone for history. Different people will give different stories. It is upto you to choose which story to listen to".

I kind of feel bad for D&D, everyone blindly critisizes as soon as show deviates from the book.

I guess if in TWOW, barristan slips on a bannana peel and dies, book "fans" would say, "Now thats a way to die. George cleverly kills him as he was brilliantly calculating dany's future. Yes,She should leave behind her memories of Rhaegar she must start afresh..blah blah" :lol:

( :) please dont get insulted. Not directed at anyone. I just say things)

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I'm torn on this. I love Barriston like the next guy, but I think there was a general feeling that he was going to be getting killed off in TWoW regardless. His death now sucks, especially the way it happened, but I expected him to die anyways.

There's always that chance he survived. It didn't look good, but it's possible. I believe the creators said that Tyrion would not be meeting Dany in this season (saving it for next?), so there is a small gap to play out first. Selmy could very well survive.

But but, the photo with Tyrion in the fighting pits?
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Do you talk to your mom with that mouth? :bs:

The idea that it is "too hard" for viewers to keep track of characters is ridiculous. Sorry, but it insults my intelligence that D+D think we are not able to wrap our tiny little brains around a multi-layered lore with dozens of main players. We already lost the entire Iron Islands.....

The argument that Dany can only have one advisor (here comes Tyrion!) is just as silly. Small council anyone? In Season One, Ned, Varys, Littlefinger, Renly and Pycelle all served on Robert's council, and guess what.... We were all able to keep track of the characters just fine. It's just lazy writing if you ask me and a ay to "dumb it down" for the masses.

Uh no...it's not "ridiculous". Talk to my FiL, who can't remember the names of anyone past the Starks and Lannisters. Or the people who think Dany's name is khaleesi. Or hell, just watch the honest trailer for the show and how half of it is spent making fun of the fact that there are too many characters to remember on the show.

It's not people "being dumb", either- the pace is much faster and if you only see a character like Janos Slynt for a few minutes each season, it's easy to see why people forgot who he was. The show CAN'T be like the books and keep unnecessary characters around. Sucks for Selmy, but his loss is needed so that Dany's problems get worse. She needs a void, so that others (like Tyrion, possibly) can fill it.

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I'm torn on this. I love Barriston like the next guy, but I think there was a general feeling that he was going to be getting killed off in TWoW regardless. His death now sucks, especially the way it happened, but I expected him to die anyways.

There's always that chance he survived. It didn't look good, but it's possible. I believe the creators said that Tyrion would not be meeting Dany in this season (saving it for next?), so there is a small gap to play out first. Selmy could very well survive.

Do you remember where you read that? I check Winter is Coming and Watchers on the Wall regularly to keep up on show news, and I can't remember any articles where that is said. I did however see set photos where Tyrion's stand in was sitting next to Dany's and Daario's stand in at the fighting pits, which I took as a strong indication that they will meet in the last episode at least.

GRRM didn't have them meet after building up to it for an entire book because he is a merciless tease, but I have a hard time believing D&D would do that. They won't get viewer's hopes up for some Dany-Tyrion interaction only to contrive to keep them apart. Tyrion might not reveal he is a Lannister, that wouldn't surprise me, but they will definitely talk a bit imo. Even if it is only for one scene just before Dany flies off on Drogon. D&D will throw us that bone. It would be a total waste to have Peter and Emilia on the same set together and not let them interact, I'm sure they know that.

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Probably to make tyrions value to dany very important.

Old ser might have advised against having a lannister advise her.

She is lonely, lost and then the imp comes to her rescue. Thats what I thought

Or he would advise her against her marriage. Now she is alone (Dario doesn't count, she would be a fool to trust him) and it would be easier for Hizdraq to convince her to marry him.

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