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Where do we go from Here? (Spoilers Galore)


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At this point I hope people stop jumping to a conclusion that since a character is cut or dead in the show it doesn't mean they won't play a big part in the book.



They are just slimming the show down so its watchable on TV. Imagine 10 episode of Sansa eating lemon cakes and Brienne wandering around the riverlands without ever bumping into any of the Stark children. It would be terrible TV.



The end game will be the same but not how they get there.


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As a general rule, we are limited in our speculations about where the books are going because we don't wander into fan-fiction territory. Even though we are now all familiar with the idea the show will end up in the same place as the books, just using a different route, it seems to be fair to say we are deep into fan-fiction territory in the show. The 2 Ds are big fans, but their editing and combining of stories and characters is creating totally new story lines.

Where are they going to go with some of these stories?

Jaime and Bronn in Dorne. Back in Season 1 I would have asked you what you were smoking. What will they be up to by season's end? Will one or both of them be dead?

Sansa in Winterfell. My crystal ball shows me something different every time I look. What about yours? Oops, almost forgot, Brienne.

Loras arrested. Is he replacing all the other plots with the Kettleblacks? Do you see death for this sinner? How does this affect the plot line of Cersei and Margaery? Will they be locked up by the sparrows too? Or has that plot been abandoned?

Is Stannis going to Deepwood Motte in the show, or straight to Winterfell? The winter that catches up with them in the books hasn't shown up yet in the series.

And across the Narrow Sea - where oh where are we going across the sea? Is Selmy dead, or injured?* He's leading things after Dany flies away with Drogon in the books, are we eliminating that plot line? Is Tyrion going to show up with Varys and teach Dany how to fly a dragon?

And how about the Riverrun crowd?

My mind is exploding with endless possibilities. What is happening in your head?

ETA: *I see the mystery actor who was disappointed to find out he was alive in the books and dead in the show was the actor who plays Barristan, Ian McIhenney, when we all first assumed it was Mance Rayder, played by Ciaran Hinds. He's definitely dead as well.

1) Jaime and Bronn in Dorne, I see Trystan ending up being (f)Aegon, though I'm not sure how Jaime will take the news when he finds out.

2) I'm dreading Sansa replacing Jeyne in a certain Theon POV.

3) It seems arresting Loras for his "deviant" sexual practices is going to be what drives a wedge between the Tyrells and Lannisters. Though Lancel's privy to some of Cersei's own deviant practices, so... I see her still going down similarly even if Margaery gets off scot free.

4) I thinks Stannis is going straight at Winterfell. Deepwood Motte hasn't been seen and only mentioned a few times. It seems the whole Ironborn plot is nixed anyways.

5) If that preview is anything to go by, Barristan's dead, disappointing and meaningless as that is. I'm guessing this is going to set up a rushed redemption arc for Jorah to get back in the scene along with Tyrion.

6) Riverrun? Psh... nope. Nothing there.

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This season there seem to be four stories from Feast and Dance being used a templates KL, The Wall , Arya and Braavos and Meereen.

They seem to be restructuring Meereen (which needed it) since they land at a Daznak's Pit , which even when condensed will end the same.

Looks as if KL will 'shadow' the book story.

The Wall gets kind of complicated in the books and it does look as if they have 'juiced' Jon's later story, Stannis seems headed in some semblance of the book.

Arya's story seems lined up to approximate the book story , tho I am dumbfounded at the prospect that Arya will not be in E5?

Winterfell and Dorne are inventions not in the book but am thinking nothing spoiler for Winds are in them.

Tho seems to me the Winterfell story is such a deviation I am curious how it's brought back to the book arc!!!!

In it's own strange way Feast and Dance are getting done but where Episode 10 lands is a real puzzle.

If George gets Winds out before season 6 that may be a spoiler , in parts, however no way he gets Dream out before 7.

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As a general rule, we are limited in our speculations about where the books are going because we don't wander into fan-fiction territory. Even though we are now all familiar with the idea the show will end up in the same place as the books, just using a different route, it seems to be fair to say we are deep into fan-fiction territory in the show. The 2 Ds are big fans, but their editing and combining of stories and characters is creating totally new story lines.

Where are they going to go with some of these stories?

Jaime and Bronn in Dorne. Back in Season 1 I would have asked you what you were smoking. What will they be up to by season's end? Will one or both of them be dead?

Sansa in Winterfell. My crystal ball shows me something different every time I look. What about yours? Oops, almost forgot, Brienne.

Loras arrested. Is he replacing all the other plots with the Kettleblacks? Do you see death for this sinner? How does this affect the plot line of Cersei and Margaery? Will they be locked up by the sparrows too? Or has that plot been abandoned?

Is Stannis going to Deepwood Motte in the show, or straight to Winterfell? The winter that catches up with them in the books hasn't shown up yet in the series.

And across the Narrow Sea - where oh where are we going across the sea? Is Selmy dead, or injured?* He's leading things after Dany flies away with Drogon in the books, are we eliminating that plot line? Is Tyrion going to show up with Varys and teach Dany how to fly a dragon?

And how about the Riverrun crowd?

My mind is exploding with endless possibilities. What is happening in your head?

ETA: *I see the mystery actor who was disappointed to find out he was alive in the books and dead in the show was the actor who plays Barristan, Ian McIhenney, when we all first assumed it was Mance Rayder, played by Ciaran Hinds. He's definitely dead as well.

1. Jaime/Bronn: I think somebody has to die in this storyline. Bronn seems the most expendable, and Jaime and Bronn have talked about death and dying.

2. Sansa in Winterfell: I'd say that Sansa will more or less take on Jeyne's role from the books, except that she'll likely have a hand in planning her escape.

3. Loras arrested: Loras might die, but I'd say that Loras gets a save somehow only for Margaery to be imprisoned as well. My money's on Olyvar cooking up some lies about Margaery having threesomes with Loras and himself.

4. Stannis in Winterfell: It seems unlikely that the march on Winterfell would be a dangling plot point for Season 6, but who knows?

5. Varys: I'm guessing Varys will show up at the end of Season 5 to murder Pycelle and Kevan.

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At this point I hope people stop jumping to a conclusion that since a character is cut or dead in the show it doesn't mean they won't play a big part in the book.

They are just slimming the show down so its watchable on TV. Imagine 10 episode of Sansa eating lemon cakes and Brienne wandering around the riverlands without ever bumping into any of the Stark children. It would be terrible TV.

The end game will be the same but not how they get there.

You mean like 5 episodes of Brienne following Sansa around the North and not doing anything?

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Ever since the season finale last year, I have been screaming to anyone and everyone that Sansa will become LSH. It's looking more and more like it's going to happen. Stannis marches on Winterfell, Sansa collaborates to bring down the Boltons,Ramsay kills her, and Red Lady Mel resurrects her as LSH. Why else would Mel insist on going to Winterfell?


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Jamie can't die this season. His plot arc clearly takes him back to KL to revisit his kingslayer bit. I am pretty sure Bronn returns as well but only because there have been such heavy hints he is about to be chopped that I can't see D&D being so obvious.



The show can't revisit Riverrun or the Twins because Frey has to die quite horribly at the hand of the other and that can't happen till after the wall comes down at the end of the last but one season. There aren't enough Freys to slaughter. Similarly, I think the Ironborn are being kept for Season 5 because they are going to be raiding oldstown then.



Loras is definitely going to be facing a nasty death and we are seeing the start of a religious war. But I can't see any way this series wraps up in less than eight seasons.


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I agree that Jaime should not die, if they have any sense, because of the prophecy Cersei received as a child. Will it be Tyrion or Jaime that kills her? Kill off Jaime and you eliminate a huge element of suspense.

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In any case, as far as the plot is concerned, a big fear of mine is that the Show is going the "Leigh Butler fantasy" route, with Jaime falling in love with Brienne. A ridiculous notion, in the books, but one which the Show seems to be hinting at with Jaime's wistful look at Tarth, and his cryptic comment of wanting to die in the arms of the woman he loves. I hope like hell he means Cersei in that reference.

Jaime falling for Brienne? What a ridiculous notion with absolutely zero basis in book canon. It's not like GRRM has stated that he modeled Jaime and Brienne after Beauty and the Beast with gender reversal. Well, except for when he personally contacted Gwendoline Christie to discuss Jaime and Brienne's relationship and said exactly that. But I’m sure he was just trolling.

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im in love with the book storyline to the point where i dont care about the show anymore. the story have been out there for how long??? 15 years now!! maybe more. u easily can forget things u reed 5 years ago, and with the show giving you different directions and storyline my brain can't handle all these conflicets i might end up just messing up the book storyline because of that.



when i see the show i fast forward just for the sake of seeing my favorite char's. without really thinking to analyis anything or link anything.

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1. Bronn could die in Dorne, I wouldn't be surprised. Jaime can simply get the LF warp speed treatment. Wherever GRRM intends for him to go after his meeting with LS, D&D can just warp him there.

2. Sansa returning to the North sometime in TWOW is pretty common speculation, so her being in the North now is not an issue imo. She was likely going there anyway. It's just all the Vale politics she was supposed to be involved in has been cut, so they will have jumped her deep into her TWOW material by next season. Sansa is going to be farther ahead plotwise compared to the books than any other character imo.

3. Loras is a secondary character, I doubt D&D care at all about what GRRM has in store for him. Cersei will be arrested,not sure about Marge.

4. I remember reading that Asha appears this season...could have been just a baseless rumor though. If she appears though, Stannis will surely capture her. It won't be in the form of an elaborate battle though, just a skirmish that ends with her being taken prisoner.

5. There has been no mention of Slaver forces across the world coming for Dany, nor is Victarion bringing her ships. So there will be no battle of fire imo. And Bary is going to die in TWOW imo. I thought that long before this season, but this last episode just confirmed it for me. I don't think Varys will show up in Meereen at all. We might have seen the last of him this season actually.

6. Wouldn't surpise me if we never saw Edmure or the Blackfish again in thise series honestly.

There's no way they'd take the time to specifically show the Blackfish avoiding the RW slaughter and then have a follow up scene where they again remind the viewers that he escaped if he was never appearing again. He's going to appear and unleash hell upon Roose, Ramsay, or the Freys at some point.

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I agree with the fan fiction remark. D&D are basically just 2 average fans who happen to have film making skills, and connections.

There are thousands of fans with a better overall knowledge of ASOIAF than D&D. I'm not trying to bash them it's simply true.

When the show is finished, and D&D are interviewed about it afterward I'm certain they will admit to having bitten off more than they could chew.

The books are one mans singular vision. The show is a massive collaborative effort in which many of the participants are literally not on the same page.

The issue is that their first goal is not to make the most exhaustive and nuanced adaption of ASoIaF that they can -- it's to make a compelling and rewarding TV series based on the book series. Especially with the gargantuan popularity of the show now, they're probably growing less and less concerned with pleasing the 1% of ultra hardcore fans and more concerned with keeping the 99% of casual fans guessing and interested. They are showrunners first and ASoIaF fans second.

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Um... how is it NOT fan fiction?

Just apply this simple logic test called, "Did it happen in the books?"

Sansa in Winterfell? Nope.

LF in Wintefell? Nope.

Sansa marrying Ramsey? Nope.

Jamie in Dorne? Nope.

Bronn in Dorne? Nope.

Ellaria set on bloody revenge? Nope.

Brienne following Sansa? Nope.

Tyrion and Jorah rowing to Mereen in a tug boat? Nope.

Shireen at Castle Black? Nope.

Melisandre seducing Jon? Nope.

Loras arrested by the Faith Militant? Nope.

Tommen tries to free Loras? Nope.

Mace Tyrell gets sent to Braavos? Nope.

Barristan killed by Harpies? Nope.

Grey Worm injured by Harpies? Nope.

Jamie, Bronn, Brienne, Podrick, Sansa, and LittleFinger aren't even in the right kingdoms from where they are and what they're doing in the book.

I'm not being critical of the changes, I'm just saying that this season D+D left "adaptation" behind and are writing their own story. It's just like what happened to True Blood. Once they left the source material, the show fell apart.

I thought Shireen came to Castle Black in the books...

Val even takes issue with her being there and calls greyscale a curse, etc.

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Yes, Shireen eventually comes to Castle Black in the books.

Back to my point about fan fiction.

At first, the 2 Ds were just compressing time lines and eliminating some plots. Presumably GRRM reviewed and agreed to these changes.

Now they are creating whole new plot lines. Whether or not GRRM approves them, he's not writing them. This is fan fiction, perhaps on an elevated level, but still fan fiction. I can't see how you can call it anything else.

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What are people's thoughts about what happens at Hardhome this season? That's probably the single location/event that I was most surprised to hear about during that "A Day In The Life" documentary or whatever before the season started, just because it's still such a mystery in the books and to see it portrayed as a functioning fishing village was sort of odd.



We've basically confirmed that Jon and Co. encounter White Walkers there and various bits of info seem to indicate that the Night's King (or who we believe to be the Night's King) will be there also. Will we learn more definitive information about the White Walkers finally? Will it just be another battle scene where the White Walkers slaughter a bunch of people and nothing new is revealed? Will the Night's King actually speak to Jon and/or someone else? Will we see information that follows up on Craster's son being turned into a White Walker and that "White Walker Council" that was watching the ceremony?



I'm pretty damn intrigued to see what comes of it.


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