Where do we go from Here? (Spoilers Galore)

[Ser Sinister]

Is it possible that while keeping with the overall theme of the books, the TV show ends differently? What I mean is that there may be some characters that no longer exist on the show, but will play a future role in the books and possibly even survive until the end. I guess that I'm secretly hoping that the show does not spoil the ending of the books, assuming that we ever see the final book. :uhoh:

All that being said, I could see Shireen being the vehicle for Jon Snow's resurrection (assuming he requires one) on the show.

[Faint]

I suppose if it actually happened her reaction might be different than she expected . . .

Bingo. There is a large gap between disliking your daughter and cackling in glee as an innocent little girl is burned alive to resurrect someone you do not like.

That is not to say that Selyse crying in the snow is not about news of Stannis' death -- that is a viable possibility as well -- but I would not dismiss that it is about Shireen either.

[Faint]

Didn't the last episode suggest that Mel would accompany Stannis into war?

That would hardly stop her from coming back, if she does leave in the first place. Especially within the context of the show, in which characters are able to cover large distances seemingly at the speed of sound.

[Lord Varys]

True. I could also see Selyse collapsing and actually admitting/realizing that she loves her daughter in the moment of death. However, I doubt Shireen would be sacrificed if Selyse did not want to do it.

Another possibility could be the news that Shireen's greyscale has resurfaced and is killing her. I think that's a given now with the info dump on the sickness. We got both the stone men and the symptoms of the sickness/the fact that Shireen has been disfigured by a sickness. Considering that this has not been mentioned since introduction in season 3 we should assume it is important.

And the main problem with the sacrifice theory is that there is no reason for Selyse/Mel/Stannis' party to sacrifice Shireen if Stannis is away or dead. He cannot possibly profit from that sacrifice then.

[Faint]

I think the theory goes that Melisandre sees something in her fires to cause her to abandon Stannis for Jon. Selyse does what Melisandre tells her, and Stannis will not be there, so he will not be in a position to do anything.

Remember also what Selyse tells her daughter: “You have no idea what people will do."

[Lord Varys]

But that would be a big deviation from the books. There is no hint that Mel wants to sacrifice Shireen there. She is only threatened by her dormant sickness and wildling bigotry.

And I doubt that the show will cover stuff beyond Jon's murder. That would be ... improper and rob the show of a great cliffhanger. With Hardhome coming in episode 8 Jon might actually return to CB to be killed there.

I doubt Shireen and Selyse will go to Hardhome. Mel might.

[Faint]

What cliffhanger? You think they can keep Kit Harington under a blanket for twelve months?

[Faint]

But that would be a big deviation from the books . . .

We have no idea what is going to happen in the books. Better to say that would be a big deviation from "what I think is going to happen in the books." Those are two very different things.

[grufolo]

I just wanted to say that this thread is pretty awesome, this is the way show and book lovers should always discuss about developments and hints, and the future.

Regarding haters, I can understand where they come from but honestly mostly they really miss what constraints the writers have to face.

So far the biggest letdown is the portrayal of the sand snakes (at least for the current season) but I hope that mostly they will be gone soon. I wonder if and why they could not have been removed from the show entirely... Clearly they have a bigger role than I thought they would by reading the books.

Instead I would think that the iron isles would have a major role from what I could see in the books, but they were happily axed so I clearly have misjudged their relative importance.

[Lord Varys]

Why not end the season with Jon's (apparent) death? That the conclusion of this story.

Melisandre hasn't yet abandoned Stannis for Jon, and there is no indication that she will. Considering that Mel is not supposed to be the Slayer of Lies I doubt she'll see the truth - be that Jon Snow or Daenerys.

[blacken]

I feel like a lot of people are missing the idea that the point of the books isn't just to reveal the end of the story, but the journey we take to get there. Do D&D know the end? Yes. Is knowing the end more important to me than reading how the character get there with all the sidebars, minor characters, history and politics, No.

It doesn't matter that Jaime is in Dorne instead of the Riverlands so much as that Jaime is not the same person in the show as in the books because his whole character development has been sidelined for a simpler plot.

[ummester]

I feel like a lot of people are missing the idea that the point of the books isn't just to reveal the end of the story, but the journey we take to get there. Do D&D know the end? Yes. Is knowing the end more important to me than reading how the character get there with all the sidebars, minor characters, history and politics, No.

When the journey becomes too long the end becomes more important. Journeys can become boring.

[Lord Varys]

blacken,

yeah, that's exactly the point. A changed character leads to a changed ending, and cut characters lead to changed endings, too. The idea that characters like Jaime or Cersei will arrive at the same point - or various characters will suffer the same fate as in the books - makes little sense if the characters that kill them no longer exist in the show.

All the show might be able is to give us a twisted glimpse of events that are supposed to happen in the books as they are already only sort of depicting events in an 'inspired by' kind of way. And they really suck when they try to give their changed characters the same scenes they got in the books because the characters they created simply would not behave like their book counterparts if they were real people. And that is harming the story.

[LadySoftheart]

I feel like a lot of people are missing the idea that the point of the books isn't just to reveal the end of the story, but the journey we take to get there. Do D&D know the end? Yes. Is knowing the end more important to me than reading how the character get there with all the sidebars, minor characters, history and politics, No.

It doesn't matter that Jaime is in Dorne instead of the Riverlands so much as that Jaime is not the same person in the show as in the books because his whole character development has been sidelined for a simpler plot.

:agree:

[Lord Damian]

I think the theory goes that Melisandre sees something in her fires to cause her to abandon Stannis for Jon. Selyse does what Melisandre tells her, and Stannis will not be there, so he will not be in a position to do anything.

Remember also what Selyse tells her daughter: “You have no idea what people will do."

I think Maester Aemon dies, on his funeral pyre, Mel will see the vision of a dark haired Stark girl in perril in Winterfell or something like that. I am sure that ravens have been sent and one intercepted announcing/inviting to the wedding and Stannis marches on this prophecy imed as time is running out. Logically, if the Boltons, or Ramsay inpregnates Sansa, the North will stand by them and Stannis will lose the North. It is a race against time.

[Lord Damian]

:agree:

agreed. about Jaime. the other main character they have deviated, is a lost cause.

[LadySharpTeeth]

When the journey becomes too long the end becomes more important. Journeys can become boring.

Not for people who enjoy 5 novels of over 600 pages each. The journey is the body of the book, the part that moves the characters and the plot naturally from one point to another. Jumping from abbreviated story to abbreviated story makes character and plot development feel contrived.

At least there's still the books to go back to for the full experience.

[ummester]

Not for people who enjoy 5 novels of over 600 pages each. The journey is the body of the book, the part that moves the characters and the plot naturally from one point to another. Jumping from abbreviated story to abbreviated story makes character and plot development feel contrived.

At least there's still the books to go back to for the full experience.

See, I would agree Season 5 of GoTs feels disjointed. Bot I also think AFFC and ADWD felt boring. The books and show are losing there way at this point, it's not a one or the other thing - it's both. Someone better pull it back on track for the conclusion.

It isn't the amount of words that makes something boring, or even necessarily the pace. It's more to do with relevance of content to the overall direction - this is why I say both books and show are losing their way - they both need to get back on target and stay on target.

[CaptainTheo]

D&D said that they were making Sansa's story this year really big. the interview regarding Sons of the Harpy, she looked like Cat, dress and hair combined. I am wondering if they are giving Sansa Stark a huge year, like a "Swan Song" and are actually going to kill her off but let Sophie Turner take on the role from now on of "Lady Stoneheart". I could very well see this happening now with all we have discussed on this.

You may have a point there about Sansa being killed off. Normally if a character is missing from the books or has very little material, their screentime is drastically cut:

• Theon only got 6 episodes in season #3 and 3 in season #4

Arya, more of a fan favourite than Sansa, only got six episodes in sesaon #4 (only episodes #1 and #10 were based on book material) and even though she has five chapters left, has only appeared in two of the first four episodes.

Bran is missing entirely from this season.

Jaime despite being second billed since season #3 only got four episodes in season #2.

The show has also killed off characters who actually have significant book material <cough>Barristan<cough>

Yet Sansa despite having bugger-all remaining book material hasn't missed an episode and it would seem likely that she gets 9 episodes this season, missing only episode #6, if that. That's about three more episodes than everyone predicted. It felt like last season was the one where her story was really big. And even though Winterfell is a major storyline at this point in the books (and perhaps my favourite from ADWD) Roose/Ramsay/Reek have only appeared in one of the first four episodes (fewer than any other starring cast members). Even though Sansa is one of my favourite characters I would have preferred to see more of these three. Especially when you consider that Jeyne (who she appears to be replacing) has a minor role in the book. I cannot work out why this has been done so maybe it is a swan song in preparation for killing her off early next season. (I'm not sold on that theory yet, but it sounds as plausible as any other. I've always been on the fence as to whether she survives the book series or not.)

Of course, this has also applied to Littlefinger who has had an even bigger role so far, but now he's leaving Winterfell and it sounds like he won't appear as much later in the series.

[ffmegaman]

I think they didn't want to focus on too many minor characters in the show, so they removed Jeyne and replaced her with Sansa in order to have a bigger impact in the show.