(Spoilers) Best Stannis scene ever?

[TheKitttenGuard]

That's a fair point except. My problem is that even getting him to the wall was changed far too much to justify it. A single tweak to the last Stannis scene at the end of Season 3 would've been enough. One or two sentences. That's all it would take. "You had the cart before the horse...." They've omitted material they had no reason to omit and every reason to include. There's no reason budget-wise, time-wise or anything actor age related (see Sansa and the Hound) to omit it.

In the end you, only when the books are done is when you can fully judge what good or bad decisions were made.

[Nihlus]

D and D have claimed to be fans of Sansa and Dorne. Look at how THOSE plots were handled. Considering that, it's possible that they were actually huge Stannis fans the whole time. :dunno:

[Eucratides_Megas]

D and D have claimed to be fans of Sansa and Dorne. Look at how THOSE plots were handled. Considering that, it's possible that they were actually huge Stannis fans the whole time. :dunno:

:rofl: I took a while to recover from that one. You're right. Looking at how they botched Ellaria and made the Sand Snakes actually sillier than their already silly book versions, maybe its just D&D "Midas" touch at work.

"And in the end, David and Dan did not in fact shit good writing...."

[Bronn Urgandy]

I always found Olenna's judgment of Renly to be the most cutting and accurate. Renly was handsome, charming and...not much else. He was also a horrible brother, a traitor and deserved his fate. Harsh, but true. Man was ready to raise arms against his kin and even joked about what to do with Stannis after he was found dead on the battlefield. I had no f*&#s to give for Renly, no matter how golden his oft-forgot scene of mocking Joffrey in book 1 was.

You're right about Stannis's popularity from the book. He has the most gripping character arc of any of the rulers. Dany rides from plot-armored victory to victory with dragons and invincible super eunuchs (which are rightly laughed at by anyone familiar with medieval armies) and a legion of great champions and the adoration of millions and....etc, etc...

Nobody likes Stannis, but everyone respects him. He begins from a position of weakness with only his determination to do what he believes is just. He stumbles, he listens to bad council and compromises, but he keeps going on and never stops either listening or pursuing his cause. Eventually he realizes his biggest error, and atones for it in the most epic hail mary move ever, and through it finds his cause has new life. He keeps listening, keeps learning, takes some hits and also scores some wins, and keeps going.

He went from hopeless and doomed to being a serious contender for the Iron Throne, even after being beaten down at the Blackwater. For a character who's always been described as grim and humorless, he's always made me feel more deeply and more consistently than Dany.

-----Sorry, I didn't want this to be another Stannis fans rant. I mostly just wanted to express my admiration for the scene. It's refreshing just how many people loved it as well :)

I love this post, I disagree on the Renly thing, I didn't think he was as bad as all that and probably would've made a good King, but I do love this post.

To me, season 2 Stannis was great. The only real 'WTF' moment I remember is when he burned Axell for not converting rather than for trying to marry Shireen to Tommen.

Literally my only gripe with show Stannis.

[The Drunkard]

Completely OT post: Is Ed Miliband secretly Stannis?

"You've grown since I last saw you."

"What is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?"

"I have a wife."

"Heheheh, do you see Ser Davos?"

"Meat's off."

"You don't deny it?"

[MountainThatSkates]

Great scene and I agree with others, it almost makes me worried that they are setting up Stannis to die. Give the audience some emotional attachment to him and then send him down to deal with the Boltons who we already despise. When analyzing Martin's writing I don't think we're done with Stannis quite yet, but the show can do a lot of different things if they just kill off Stannis.

Beyond the emotional words from Stannis and the general sense of the scene, I think two things stood out to me that made it great. First as others mentioned the way Shireen catches Stannis in the same complaint. When he references what his father called boredom, Shireen instantly picks up on the fact that it could mean that Stannis perhaps complained about being bored.

The second part that is just so Stannis is while Shireen is talking about being left behind she moves some of the markers on the map and even though Stannis is clearly listening to Shireen you can also see him looking towards his battle map. Then after she asks if he's ashamed he stands up to walk over to her... but before he gets to her he has to go and fix the map. He makes sure he puts the markers in the right spots before the emotional moment with his daughter.

I agree with others that it was really just season 3 that D&D truly messed up Stannis. I think his conversations with Davos in Season 2 were done very well by the 2 characters. It didn't get into characters fully, but that was to be expected. But Season 3 Stannis is nothing at all like Martin's version of Stannis. Just poorly done, meanwhile in season 4 it did seem like D&D were almost intentionally lessening the character. Hopefully this is a sign of building the character back up... though now I feel Davos's role has been mitigated.

"he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.”

[Philpenn]

Also... Shireen's "were you bored a lot too?" line.

I liked "because she said I don't want to bring you."

[TheKitttenGuard]

MTSK,

They did Davos's ASOS arc in season 3, if they wanted to lessen Stannis they could of done a couple scene on a boat until the Wall and it would been more to the book. His build-up started with the Iron Bank scene.

[buckfosto]

"You are the Princess Shireen of House Baratheon and you are my dau--oh, oh, don't touch my mappy stuff, I had them set up perfectly"

I really loved this scene. I've rewatched it a few times.

[TeethGrinder]

I always found Olenna's judgment of Renly to be the most cutting and accurate. Renly was handsome, charming and...not much else. He was also a horrible brother, a traitor and deserved his fate. Harsh, but true. Man was ready to raise arms against his kin and even joked about what to do with Stannis after he was found dead on the battlefield. I had no f*&#s to give for Renly, no matter how golden his oft-forgot scene of mocking Joffrey in book 1 was.

You're right about Stannis's popularity from the book. He has the most gripping character arc of any of the rulers. Dany rides from plot-armored victory to victory with dragons and invincible super eunuchs (which are rightly laughed at by anyone familiar with medieval armies) and a legion of great champions and the adoration of millions and....etc, etc...

Nobody likes Stannis, but everyone respects him. He begins from a position of weakness with only his determination to do what he believes is just. He stumbles, he listens to bad council and compromises, but he keeps going on and never stops either listening or pursuing his cause. Eventually he realizes his biggest error, and atones for it in the most epic hail mary move ever, and through it finds his cause has new life. He keeps listening, keeps learning, takes some hits and also scores some wins, and keeps going.

He went from hopeless and doomed to being a serious contender for the Iron Throne, even after being beaten down at the Blackwater. For a character who's always been described as grim and humorless, he's always made me feel more deeply and more consistently than Dany.

-----Sorry, I didn't want this to be another Stannis fans rant. I mostly just wanted to express my admiration for the scene. It's refreshing just how many people loved it as well :)

I'd be pretty shocked to hear that he wasn't popular. I read the books after season 2 myself so maybe I'm sub-consciously biased but he was barely relevant to me when I started and didn't think much of him. Although I was just all about Tyrion at that point, and was sort of tunnel visioning through the show.

I could see Dillane's brilliance being an influence but I just thought his book character was incredible. Full of genuinely horrible moral dilemmas but also a relentlessness to ensure he took his throne, not only for himself but for his kingdom. It's a brilliantly complex and probably tragic character who I couldn't help but root for. I think the show missed out badly with their portrayal of him, because even though he's now finally becoming more popular I feel the damage was done. They genuinely could have the same Dany/Stannis fan rivalry book fans have, which while often cringeworthy gets fans almost totally invested in their respective campaigns and outcomes.

I watched almost every Stannis scene in season 3 with my head in my hands. I have never comprehended Renly popularity at all.

[Eucratides_Megas]

I'd be pretty shocked to hear that he wasn't popular. I read the books after season 2 myself so maybe I'm sub-consciously biased but he was barely relevant to me when I started and didn't think much of him. Although I was just all about Tyrion at that point, and was sort of tunnel visioning through the show.

I could see Dillane's brilliance being an influence but I just thought his book character was incredible. Full of genuinely horrible moral dilemmas but also a relentlessness to ensure he took his throne, not only for himself but for his kingdom. It's a brilliantly complex and probably tragic character who I couldn't help but root for. I think the show missed out badly with their portrayal of him, because even though he's now finally becoming more popular I feel the damage was done. They genuinely could have the same Dany/Stannis fan rivalry book fans have, which while often cringeworthy gets fans almost totally invested in their respective campaigns and outcomes.

I watched almost every Stannis scene in season 3 with my head in my hands. I have never comprehended Renly popularity at all.

You and me both. Renly was always a cipher I think, an empty suit people poured all their more fantastic hopes for Westeros into. They saw his outward personal affability and then expanded upon. We'll never know much about him because of just how little information we get beyond Loras's and Brienne's devotion, though Brienne in the books is much more hopelessly naive about it.

He was an opportunist, Littlefinger with the benefit of a old name, title and army.

[TheKitttenGuard]

I'd be pretty shocked to hear that he wasn't popular. I read the books after season 2 myself so maybe I'm sub-consciously biased but he was barely relevant to me when I started and didn't think much of him. Although I was just all about Tyrion at that point, and was sort of tunnel visioning through the show.

I could see Dillane's brilliance being an influence but I just thought his book character was incredible. Full of genuinely horrible moral dilemmas but also a relentlessness to ensure he took his throne, not only for himself but for his kingdom. It's a brilliantly complex and probably tragic character who I couldn't help but root for. I think the show missed out badly with their portrayal of him, because even though he's now finally becoming more popular I feel the damage was done. They genuinely could have the same Dany/Stannis fan rivalry book fans have, which while often cringeworthy gets fans almost totally invested in their respective campaigns and outcomes.

I watched almost every Stannis scene in season 3 with my head in my hands. I have never comprehended Renly popularity at all.

I starting reading after S2 also and I like TVStannis. I saw the difference in character but still they done fine job. Though based on some of Stannis's most strident supporters I sometime ponder if it is due a philosophical difference. For what is view as a grand morale quandary for some came off to me as a Lord not willing acknowledge his part in events at time. He comes off much more hypocritical at parts in the book than on the show.

[TeethGrinder]

I starting reading after S2 also and I like TVStannis. I saw the difference in character but still they done fine job. Though based on some of Stannis's most strident supporters I sometime ponder if it is due a philosophical difference. For what is view as a grand morale quandary for some came off to me as a Lord not willing acknowledge his part in events at time. He comes off much more hypocritical at parts in the book than on the show.

Three scenes were unforgivable for me. Burning unbelievers, the Gendry fiasco and sentencing Davos. None of those were consistent with Stannis' book character.

Doesn't burn people without reason in the books. Acknowledges the power of R'hllor but is far from being that sort of fanatical dictator towards those who don't share his belief. It was obviously Mel's decision too, which I'll get too.

I actually probably became more of a Stannis fan during the Edric Storm arc, because while it was going to be his worst crime he was hugely against doing it and once he done so he outlined that he fully expects to sacrifice himself for his cause too, as he sure he's seen his own death in the flames.

As for Davos sentencing, he basically undermines his entire authority by allowing her not only to influence, but flat out make his decisions. He looked so incompetent in that scene and, as with the burnings of Florent, it implies Mel is running the show.

[Candor]

I liked "because she said I don't want to bring you."

That one too. She knows there isn't much love coming from her mother, poor kid.

Regarding TV Stannis vs Book Stannis, TV disappoints me at times a) because of great lines left out and b ) Melisandre seems to completely dominate him in a way I didn't think she did when I read the novels. But from what I've seen this season, I think the show's getting better at handling Stannis and he's got plotlines that will require more screentime to execute - more time for them to expand on his character!

[TheKitttenGuard]

Three scenes were unforgivable for me. Burning unbelievers, the Gendry fiasco and sentencing Davos. None of those were consistent with Stannis' book character.

Doesn't burn people without reason in the books. Acknowledges the power of R'hllor but is far from being that sort of fanatical dictator towards those who don't share his belief. It was obviously Mel's decision too, which I'll get too.

I actually probably became more of a Stannis fan during the Edric Storm arc, because while it was going to be his worst crime he was hugely against doing it and once he done so he outlined that he fully expects to sacrifice himself for his cause too, as he sure he's seen his own death in the flames.

As for Davos sentencing, he basically undermines his entire authority by allowing her not only to influence, but flat out make his decisions. He looked so incompetent in that scene and, as with the burnings of Florent, it implies Mel is running the show.

1. He burned the Allister on the shoe due to disobeying a King'size order. May not like it but Stannis stated to have order him to burn the Statues.

2. Gendry falls into that the 3 Kings were not going to die in S3 and the season finale was the conculsion of Davos's ASOS arc.

3. We do not fully know what occurred after Davos read the letter. It is not clear how much Stannis consulted Melissandre before the decision. It is not what occurred in the show but I have difficulty thinking she was not consulted.

I saw the burning part Stannis will follow through but does not mean he likes it.

Yes Stannis is more of a true believer on the show. I think it works better for the show for him to that since they are focusing on the story.

[The Bear]

I genuinely thought this was super in-character. Of course Stannis, the man known for his stubbornness, would live up to that image when his only child is dying. I always got the impression that he cared about his daughter in the books too. The awkward hug at the end was freakin' awesome.

This. It was a beautiful scene. I thought it was 100% in character, Stannis obviously loves Shireen so much even if he's not demonstrative. It obviously means Stannis or Shireen will die, and god I do not want to see sweet, smart, kind Shireen burn. That would be unforgivable. Stannis would straight up murder Selyse and Mel.

[VladimirDulud]

Can someone please explain the Stannis fanaticism. He's a tad far right Republican gone nuts with all that burning of blasphemers and some weird god-fetish.

[Darzin]

Stannis burns people in the books for not converting we just don't see it on screen, he burns Lord Sunglass and his sons.

[Antler's Fury]

he burns Lord Sunglass and his sons.

...for leaving him after having sworn fealty to him. Not for refusing to convert.

[Eucratides_Megas]

Can someone please explain the Stannis fanaticism. He's a tad far right Republican gone nuts with all that burning of blasphemers and some weird god-fetish.

:rofl: Just lit the fuse and rolled that one in there I see ;) See explanations above if you're actually serious, if not, then depart.

Stannis burns people in the books for not converting we just don't see it on screen, he burns Lord Sunglass and his sons.

He arrested him after Sunglass ceased supporting him over Mel desecrating the Sept on Dragonstone. The funny thing about it is there's just as much religious fanaticism directed against the R'hllor faith as by it, but it usually goes unnoticed.

Mel was the one burning him to help Stannis's fleet on their drive to the Blackwater. I have no doubt he would have authorized it, since the Lord did decide to abandon his liege lord over a religious dispute.