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[Book Spoilers] So with all the hints last night...


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I'm feeling much more confident about my theory that Brienne will meet up with Howland Reed on her way to Winterfell. They are clearly setting up an R+L=J confirmation sooner rather than later, and who is in a better position right now to receive that information than Brienne? Especially because it dovetails with her desire to kill Stannis. I think Stannis will have to return to the Wall for one reason or another no matter what happens at Winterfell (unless already dead of course), which means Brienne is going to end up there eventually too.

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I don't understand how Brienne's desire to kill Stannis dovetails with R+L=J. Please explain.



I do think the show is trying to foreground the mystery of surrounding R+L as a prelude to key plot twists.



It also is clear that this season is taking us well beyond the books. Mid-way next week and Tyrion sees Drogon. Sansa is at Winterfell already, never mind fake married a second time (at least I hope it turns out to be a fake marriage) and I really hope there is no Ramsey rape/torture on Sansa plot because I will throw up.


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I don't understand how Brienne's desire to kill Stannis dovetails with R+L=J. Please explain.

I do think the show is trying to foreground the mystery of surrounding R+L as a prelude to key plot twists.

It also is clear that this season is taking us well beyond the books. Mid-way next week and Tyrion sees Drogon. Sansa is at Winterfell already, never mind fake married a second time (at least I hope it turns out to be a fake marriage) and I really hope there is no Ramsey rape/torture on Sansa plot because I will throw up.

Yeah, give us torture of minor characters, even flayings or beatings but I agree, her virtue must be protected because that may be the only thing pure left on this damn show and she has had to put up with enough crap to this point anyway.

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I thought that Howland is already in KL.Oh nevermind. :laugh: Brienne with Pod will magically show up around Winterfell.I seriously doubt we'll gonna see Howland Reed in the show at this point,but it's a nice idea.The reveal will come from someone like Bran,Mel or even Sansa. :dunno: Stannis back at the Wall?Unlikely.Same can't be said about Mel tho.


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I don't understand how Brienne's desire to kill Stannis dovetails with R+L=J. Please explain.

Mainly because the Natural momentum of all the stories will push them to the wall. Stannis still has to do his save the Kingdom to win the Kingdom thing, ostensibly that's why he came north in the first place, so I don't think he pushes south yet, therefore he'll head to the wall. Brienne maybe the one to help Sansa get out of Winterfell, and she wants to kill Stannis, so either way the first place she's gonna want to go is the Wall. Not to mention events at the Wall might dictate things as well. Also though, remember when Brienne was talking to Pod about "all the good lords are dead,"? What if she found out the true king of Westeros had been hiding as a bastard boy, raised by the most honorable lord in the seven kingdoms, and rose to be the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch in only about 2 years. That's the type of resume someone like Brienne could follow, whether that means in a fight for the Iron Throne, or King in the North, or the Long Night. It makes a lot of sense to me, that doesn't mean it'll come to pass, but I'm feeling a lot more confident than I did last week.
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I think you're right about Littlefinger, except I can't understand how that would be possible.

Deduction... like most of us ! ^^

The hints are in Westeros as well for a clever eye. And Littlefinger is still quite clever.

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Deduction... like most of us ! ^^

The hints are in Westeros as well for a clever eye. And Littlefinger is still quite clever.

possibly, but he's one bastard boy in a remote part of the kingdom, I still find it hard to accept that Jon would even be on Littlefinger's radar let alone central to his plan. I'm not saying it's not the case, I'm just saying they'll need to lay more groundwork for that if they want to go that way and make it believable. I will say though that him trying to ride Jon's secret Targ claim makes more sense than the underpants gnome logic of marrying her to Ramsey.
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I think you're right about Littlefinger, except I can't understand how that would be possible.

He doubts Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna, hinting that it was probably consensual, and then all of a sudden about a year later Ned Stark the ever honorable shows up with a newborn baby claiming him to be his bastard with a non-existent mother.

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possibly, but he's one bastard boy in a remote part of the kingdom, I still find it hard to accept that Jon would even be on Littlefinger's radar let alone central to his plan.

Its true that another bastard boy would not be on Littlefingers radar. But Catelyn was, so was Ned and so was propably Lyanna and Rhaegar. So he is putting pieces together like we are.

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Yeah, give us torture of minor characters, even flayings or beatings but I agree, her virtue must be protected because that may be the only thing pure left on this damn show and she has had to put up with enough crap to this point anyway.

What??? That's hilarious.

What's good enough for any character is good enough for wittle SanSan. None should be immune to Westeros' downward spiral.

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Apart from way to announce parentage of Jon Snow, I wonder how it will be important for the further development of the story. Because being set up like this it obviously is going to be important instead of "oh...ok" moment.



Concerning revealing parentage - could it maybe be Maester Aemon before his death in the show? If i am not mixing things up he was keeping in contact with Rheagar. Candidate No 2 is Bran. I think Mel will not know, she will just start to realize that Jon is better AA candidate than Stannis.



In the books it probably will be Howland Reed who reveals.


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In the books I suspected a few people had worked out R+L=J. Probably a few people in the North who knew the characters of Ned and Lyanna, I'm pretty sure Jeor Mormont had his suspicions. In the South probably the smartest people suspect. Varys, LF, maybe even Tyrion. Robert probably had his suspicions that there was something more going on with his "Rhaegar won ...He has Lyanna now, and I have her." comment to Ned. The thing is that as long as Jon is officially a Stark bastard, and so long as there is no proof that he is anything else, he is pretty unimportant to the game players.



No one powerful is actually concerned with "real" claims to the throne except for Dany and Stannis and they are so sure of of themselves that Rhaegar's son appearing won't even cause them to blink.


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No one powerful is actually concerned with "real" claims to the throne except for Dany and Stannis and they are so sure of of themselves that Rhaegar's son appearing won't even cause them to blink.

Thats what I've been thinking all along. It doesn't even seem to matter that much if he was R's son. Won't change the game much. Maybe the fact that he had a powerful father might play a minor influence when something entirely different becomes of him. A whitewalker AA zombie or whatever ...don't know, just speculating :read:

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Maybe the fact that he had a powerful father might play a minor influence when something entirely different becomes of him. A whitewalker AA zombie or whatever ...don't know, just speculating :read:

This seems likely to me. On the other hand to be AA he does not necessarily has to be Targ...

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Books....LF could not have known about Jon...he would have used this to drive a wedge between Robert and Ned I think.



Show.....Poster above mentioned Sansa doing the reveal....I think this is possible because of the feather she found in the tombs....when Lady was removed as her "warg" partner...and she was constantly referred to as a bird by Sansor...I felt she would learn to warg via birds instead of a wolf....this is book theory though....the direwolves/warging hasn't been mentioned since...I don't know what season? But it was my first thought during this scene.



Books...Jon will find out when he wargs into Ghost before he arises as TPTWP.


Show.....Mel will show him a fire vision....and likely will be naked.

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Apart from way to announce parentage of Jon Snow, I wonder how it will be important for the further development of the story. Because being set up like this it obviously is going to be important instead of "oh...ok" moment.

Concerning revealing parentage - could it maybe be Maester Aemon before his death in the show? If i am not mixing things up he was keeping in contact with Rheagar. Candidate No 2 is Bran. I think Mel will not know, she will just start to realize that Jon is better AA candidate than Stannis.

In the books it probably will be Howland Reed who reveals.

Do you honestly think that the main reason for Howland Reed to exist in the books is to reveal Jon's parentage? One of a few men known to visit Isle of Faces hides behind the scenes just to tell Jon about his mother? Come on, GRRM is better than this.

I don't think Maester Aemon knows in the show. I'd guess he dies this season and Jon's parentage will be revealed in season 6 or perhaps even season 7.

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