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Bakker XXXVI: The Horror of Threads to Come


Madness

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And what is the significance of the skull? That they were following the same path step by step and Kellhus falters off the path? Misses an important piece of information? Just curious what you're guys thoughts are on it.

It has been suggested that the kicking of the skull is too deliberate on the author's part to not signify something, and if that is indeed the case, perhaps it signifies that Kellhus is making a misstep and everything he's about to say with his Dunyainsplaining to Moe is wrong.

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Echoing DR's comment that the whole thing escalated a bit quickly there...

I would like to see some more shorts from Bakker, I loved the Atrocity Tales especially The False Sun. I think some commercialised short Atrocity Tales would be a good entry into the world of Earwa.

You probably know this already, but Bakker's actually got an Earwa novelette out in Grimdark Magazine. And I'm not just promoting it because I'm in the issue myself, but because it's actually pretty awesome. http://grimdarkmagazine.com/products/grimdark-magazine-issue-3

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I hate the term 'mansplaining' (I get that it happens - that doesn't mean it makes sense to replicate the other persons poor behaviour), but I find the term 'dunyainsplaining' just perfect!



I don't want to ruin the whole 'Moe wanted to be choraed' second (or first?) narrative arc, but Moe could easily get his hands on a chorae (via some thrall handling it - heck, the scarlet spires manages that!). Why would it be significant for Cnaiur to do the deed?


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So didn't the last book come out like 4 years ago? I have read them all, but you guys make me feel like dumbass that had no idea what he was reading.

Yeah, came out in like April of 2011. I am frustrated as shit that we still don't even have a release date for the Precious.

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I don't want to ruin the whole 'Moe wanted to be choraed' second (or first?) narrative arc, but Moe could easily get his hands on a chorae (via some thrall handling it - heck, the scarlet spires manages that!). Why would it be significant for Cnaiur to do the deed?

With (a) Cnaiur possibly being possessed by Gilgaöl (thus a manifestation of the 'Outside' on the 'Inside') and (b) Chorae making some sort of connection to the outside, perhaps this led to Moe being suched into Cnaiur insted of being sucked into the Outside?

Regards

G.

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K, I'll join in - maybe something to do with the deathmass that pivots on Cnaiur - as swazond are described, they are all the lives that stop at his. Maybe 'heal' means more that Moe will actually hijack all these dead from Cnaiur for some purpose in the Earwa afterlife. Maybe Cnauir is like a bonsai topos or something.



There, I hadda shot at it.


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I almost forgot that Madness inadvertently confirmed the “Moënghus + Cnaiür = Meppa” theory--not that he won’t deny it.



So before his death Moe trapped some part of his soul in Cnaiür’s body. Kind of like how Shae is staying alive.


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I been really mulling over Seswatha's character lately. He seems so swathed in misdirection. Anyone care to weigh in on what they feel like the end-game with him is?

I feel like he has been manipulating everyone against each other for a long time. More details later, but does anyone feel that way too?

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I’ve been getting “Seswatha = Shaeönanra” vibes recently, and somehow that’s the revelation of the Ishuäl chapter. Not much to back it up though.



Maybe he’s just another alien who has been following the Inchoroi around and ruining their plan on every planet.


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I been really mulling over Seswatha's character lately. He seems so swathed in misdirection. Anyone care to weigh in on what they feel like the end-game with him is?

I feel like he has been manipulating everyone against each other for a long time. More details later, but does anyone feel that way too?

I've speculated that he is the true founder of Ishual (led Dûnyain there), he did found Mandate, seems to have manipulated texts, had sex with Celmommas wife and I'm sure we could keep going on. So yea, something up with Seswatha.

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I've speculated that he is the true founder of Ishual (led Dûnyain there), he did found Mandate, seems to have manipulated texts, had sex with Celmommas wife and I'm sure we could keep going on. So yea, something up with Seswatha.

My feeling though is that somehow Seswatha is "playing all the sides against the middle." What I don't know is, what is the middle in this case? Mutual annihilation? What is all this misdirection playing out toward?

Lets pretend that Ses did send the Dunyain to Ishual (highly probable, seeing as to how he was probably the only one left after the Apocalypse to know it existed), the two things we know about Ishual that are special is it's secret location and it's status as Cel's "seed bank." I don't think either of those are incidental in them being sent there. It would seem to be that Ses is setting up to try to make the Celmomian Prophecy true. He sets up a group to make sure the Anisurimbor line is continued. He sets up a group to constantly carry the word of the prophecy forward (the Mandate). He knows the Consult will always be there.

Why do this? I think Seswatha wants the Second Apocalypse to happen. I think the misdirection is that everyone is trying so hard to prevent an outcome, that they are unwittingly actually causing it to happen. If the Second Apocalypse is the Semantic Apocalypse, Earwa is set to lose all that "makes it special." I think this is Seswatha's end-game, no one will win, the game itself will be destroyed.

Seswatha = the Hari Seldon of Bakker-world

Yeah, that's the sort of vibe I am getting too. Mandate and Dunyain as sort of a First and Second Foundation.

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.H., so this is just Seswatha's benjuka plate, right?

Going back to what Hala Ya Dunya said. I listened to the podcast where I thought Madness let loose that Moe+Cnaüir=Meppa. I caught it too. He didn't say anything, but, was ready to and stopped on a dime. I feel its true too. Upon reading the text I believe its clearer than you think. Indeed Cnaüir arc is done, Meppa's is just getting started. And, isn't it poetic? Can't you see that its exactly something Bakker would do? The hate Cnaüir had for all things Dûnyain, he is the first to figure them out and their manipulation. He laughs at Aurang, when Aurang calls them children that will easily be wiped out. Cnaüir whole arc was to kill Meöenghus, now they are one. I think its awesome writing, tbh.

Oh, and where I was going with this is the fibrous skull. Kellhus thinks that Meöenghus screwed up in choosing to become Chisaurim. This is what he missed. He didn't anticipate Moe's move on Cnaüir with the chorae/swazond. This is how Fayanal evades Kellhus, Moe(Meppa). Only a Dûnyain can stay a step ahead of a Dûnyain. Meppa will have a huge part in TUC, I'll bet the house on it.

ETA: why was it important for Moe to fuse with Cnaüir? Well, exactly what Moe lacked to become a powerful Chisaurim. Passion and belief. Who has more than Cnaüir? Meppa's Water is gonna make the Gnosis look like child's play. And he's only using Fayanal the way Kellhus used the Holy War.

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