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[Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

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Tyrion read books about dragons in Book 1. Not sure where he got them though.




JonCon also makes Tyrion write up everything he knows about dragons for young Griff in ADWD. There is a paragraph there where Tyrion thinks about this one book he never had access to but that's supposed to be the best. The book is supposedly hidden in one of the vaults of the Citadel and only archmaesters (sp?) have the keys to this vault


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If stannis is defeated I just want Ramsay to get his hands on Mel, like seriously I don't want to sound evil and no one deserves his torture but that red loony toones just needs to die somehow, there is something absolutely despicable about her character.



yes kill off stannis when i am starting to like him. i hope shireen lives but i think she is toast literally. you know she is definitely in the running for having the worst parents, stannis is not abusive but a cold and distant father who lets his wife torture the poor girl is not any better, stannis loves her sure but poor child needs a father who can openly show his love and protect her. its admirable how after such a miserable childhood she is a loving human being. well anyways it will be sad to see her die. looks like house baratheon is going to be extinct at the end of GOT.



come on guys what do we really expect Sansa to do. Sansa only had a chance small chance with the Lannisters if anything if she had her brains on straight she could have done something about littlefinger, but this is the freaking Boltons we are talking about, who talk about raping people as if they are talking about the weather, not even Tyrion would be able to outwit them. This is way beyond Sansa league.



pod is also in danger of dying because he is with brienne the idiot she is going to get him killed.


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If stannis is defeated I just want Ramsay to get his hands on Mel, like seriously I don't want to sound evil and no one deserves his torture but that red loony toones just needs to die somehow, there is something absolutely despicable about her character.



yes kill off stannis when i am starting to like him. i hope shireen lives but i think she is toast literally. you know she is definitely in the running for having the worst parents, stannis is not abusive but a cold and distant father who lets his wife torture the poor girl is not any better, stannis loves her sure but poor child needs a father who can openly show his love and protect her. its admirable how after such a miserable childhood she is a loving human being. well anyways it will be sad to see her die. looks like house baratheon is going to be extinct at the end of GOT.



come on guys what do we really expect Sansa to do. Sansa only had a chance small chance with the Lannisters if anything if she had her brains on straight she could have done something about littlefinger, but this is the freaking Boltons we are talking about, who talk about raping people as if they are talking about the weather, not even Tyrion would be able to outwit them. This is way beyond Sansa league.



pod is also in danger of dying because he is with brienne the idiot she is going to get him killed.


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I can not understand how any sane person can like Deanerys. She certainly is one of the biggest hypocrites around, and is in general just a bad, entitled, narcissistic person that has not earned very much through any skill or hard work.

This ofcourse makes her the darling of Feminists.

What is funny is that Daenerys chooses an actual psychopathic, murdering, rapist over the brother who essentially raised her as a hard working single mother. This is the champion of Feminists worldwide.

You mean the brother who hit her, manhandled her, tried to rape her (book AND show canon), and threatened her life and the life of her baby? That brother?

Funnily enough, one of the people Dany admires most in the world is her other brother, the one she never had the opportunity to meet.

As for her skill and hard work, here's what Tyrion (GRRM's doppelgänger in canon) has to say about Dany in the last book:

"I know that she spent her childhood in exile, impoverished, living on dreams and schemes, running from one city to the next, always fearful, never safe, friendless but for a brother who was by all acounts half-mad...a brother who sold her maidenhood to the Dothraki for the promise of an army. I know that somewhere upon the grass, her dragons hatched, and so did she. I know she is proud. How not? What else was left her but pride? I know she is strong. How not? The Dothraki despise weakness. If Daenerys had been weak, she would have perished with Viserys. I know she is fierce. Astapor, Yunkai and Meereen are proof enough of that. She has survived assassins and conspiracies and fell sorceries, grieved for a brother and a husband and a son, trod the cities of the slavers to dust beneath her dainty sandaled feet."

Unsullied viewers love their Khaleesi for a reason. There are other criticisms of her character to be made. The idea that she didn't earn her position is not one of them.

Edited by Liz Stark-Targaryen

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J

JonCon also makes him write up everything he knows about dragons for young Griff in ADWD. There is a paragraph there where he thinks about this one book he never had access to but that's supposed to be the best. The book is supposedly hidden in one of the vaults of the Citadel and only archmaesters (sp?) have the keys to this vault

You're right. I had forgotten. I think he was reading about dragonbone on the way to the Wall in GOT.

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If stannis is defeated I just want Ramsay to get his hands on Mel, like seriously I don't want to sound evil and no one deserves his torture but that red loony toones just needs to die somehow, there is something absolutely despicable about her character.

yes kill off stannis when i am starting to like him. i hope shireen lives but i think she is toast literally. you know she is definitely in the running for having the worst parents, stannis is not abusive but a cold and distant father who lets his wife torture the poor girl is not any better, stannis loves her sure but poor child needs a father who can openly show his love and protect her. its admirable how after such a miserable childhood she is a loving human being. well anyways it will be sad to see her die. looks like house baratheon is going to be extinct at the end of GOT.

come on guys what do we really expect Sansa to do. Sansa only had a chance small chance with the Lannisters if anything if she had her brains on straight she could have done something about littlefinger, but this is the freaking Boltons we are talking about, who talk about raping people as if they are talking about the weather, not even Tyrion would be able to outwit them. This is way beyond Sansa league.

pod is also in danger of dying because he is with brienne the idiot she is going to get him killed.

I find it funny how you think Ramsay could kill Melisandre so easily.

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What is funny is that Daenerys chooses an actual psychopathic, murdering, rapist over the brother who essentially raised her as a hard working single mother.

While I agree with the first half of that, in fairness to Dany, her brother was a complete piece of human garbage in his own right.

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You mean the brother who hit her, manhandled her, tried to rape her (book AND show canon), and threatened her life and the life of her baby? That brother?

Funnily enough, one of the people Dany admires most in the world is her other brother, the one she never had the opportunity to meet.

As for her skill and hard work, here's what Tyrion (GRRM's doppelgänger in canon) has to say about Dany in the last book:

Unsullied viewers love their Khaleesi for a reason. There are other criticisms of her character to be made. The idea that she didn't earn her position is not one of them.

I agree. I thought the OP was jesting!

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They already don't trust or care about her, she do the complete ohhhhhh I love my Ramsey they call BS and keep an even tighter noose on her.

She at least knows there are people for her, how she gets a candle up the broken tower without creating suspicion is another matter.

I thought when Reek went on his knees in front of Ramsey a male bonding of sorts was about to happen.

Walda dead women walking.

Ya there is a difference between smiling/being overly pleasant and having more of a neutral reaction and not nakedly displaying what you are thinking. I'd imagine doing so puts you at a distinct disadvantage in most situations. This seemed very much like this is what Sansa is legitimately thinking and she is not controlling her reactions to things because she hasn't adjusted based on what she has learned.

A lot of people think her arc was moving towards her becoming more able to manipulate power players and not having to rely on others to save her and placing her in Winterfell would be her honing her skills while going over some bumps along the way. This doesn't seem like altering her strategy based on the people she's attempting to manipulate and more like the show not intending to focus on that aspect of her story at the time so they kind of overlooked it in the writing/directing.

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I wrote this in the rant and rave thread, but I kinda need to post it here too, because it's really bothering me:

I'm very uncomfortable by Dany's "proposal" to Hizdahr. The guy goes from fearing for his life and genuinely believing he's about to be eaten alive by her dragons to being told he has no choice but to marry her. If they sleep together, I won't be able to see it as anything but marital rape, because that dude is not willing. What they wanted to portray as an empowered moment on Dany's behalf turned into a very sketchy scene.

There was nothing awesome about this for me. All I could think was, if that guy wasn't against Dany before then she's just given him several reasons to be. I felt genuinely sorry for him. This isn't even your regular forced marriage in Planetos taking into consideration that the guy's father was crucified by Dany too. What is even happening?

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Well I agree she is acting like less of a victim, sure, but that =/= being so recklessly bold? Sansa's whole demeanor was such a 180 from when she first meant the Boltons and it was bugging me the whole time.

Not really a 180, she showed contempt and hate for Roose, then a slight bit of courtesy.

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Usually, I lead my commentary with what I like, then what I am not sure of and then … then what I hated.



This episode I almost feel like doing in reverse; because there is just so much I did not like. At all.




I’ll begin by saying this: the show lied when they said they would not follow the books. Lie. The show is following the same boring, slow, unsteady, untethered, meandering, incomplete, non-sensical and pedestrian path as the books: a lot of talk, a lot of repetition, not a lot of advancement. When something DOES happen, it makes very little sense.



Take for example the ony two “Starks” left: Jon and Sansa.



Sansa’s story is pointless; we know she is supposed to marry Ramsey; we know she is in danger; we know Theon is there; we know every Bolton is bat-shit crazy. Nobody is doing anything. It’s a slow burn of NOTH-ING! As in “Nothing is happening.” Why more scenes of Sansa being scared? Or upset? Or angry? Why more scenes of Ramsey being cruel? Or Crazy? Or angry? Why more scenes of Roose brooding? Nervous? Or Angry? Why is all this here? EVERYTHING they are doing we either a) already knew, b )could easily infer or c) is not important.



The only exception was Roose is having a son (kinda); and I don’t care. While its interesting that a third-teir character’s inheritance is now in jeopardy… we have other characters, right?



Oh, but don’t forget Brienne. She is trying to protect Lady Sansa. And if you don’t know that by now, DON’T WORRY! There will soon be another heavy-handed, needless scene which REMINDS YOU of this along next episode. I hear it involves Brienne talking loudly about swearing loyalty to somebody who is dead.



Everything in Winterfell feels like its “Last Week on Game of Thrones.”



Then there is Jon. Now in his 5th consecutive week of “Let’s Try to Win Over the Wildlings.” But now in a senseless and needless story wrinkle, the Lord Commander of the Wall MUST go north and treat with a whole bunch of people he 1) has never met before, 2) want him dead, and 3) will constantly remind him that he “knows nothing” bout them, their ways, how they won’t kneel, how they will not sow (or whatever they stupid words are) and how, no matter what they won’t follow no Southerner… or kneeler …l or whatever dumb thing they are calling people who have “civilization” on their side.



Because that’s what I want- another needless, formless, uneven mass of heavily clothed nimrods in furs telling Jon Snow what a douche he is for … having these sense to build homes made of stone, have laws and not live where all the fucking winter and death and zombies are.



But, hey, at least we had a ridiculously stupid conversation between Sam and Gilly. Because I needed another reminder that the Wall was immensely boring. And Gilly was immensely ignorant and Sam immensely dense.



Which brings us to Stannis. He left. See, Stannis is one of those rare characters who actually does stuff; has goals and takes actions fitted to accomplish said goals. And he’s gone. That’s right- the one interesting character in the whole North and he is headed for his certain death. After he defeats Bolton and Ramsey Brienne is going to kill him. Because the people who are making this show don’t know what the show is about.



Speaking of interesting things leaving, Dany. Dany. Is. Nuts.



So, Dany burned a guy who she was not certain actually did anything. OR sanctioned anything. OR hated her. Or hated her rule. Or liked the Harpies. No. She just burned that guy. Because … because its cool when DRAGONS DO IT!!!!!! By the way, Stannis still gets shit for burning men who were treasonous to him. Dany, meanwhile, gets NO SHIT for burning a guy because …w ell… he didn’t look innocent-y enough



People hate Cersei for shit like that.



Thankfully, we got a scene with Melassandi and Grey Worm; the masses were clamoring for that. From these boards, the things people want MOST in the show are 1) Dany coming to Westeros; 2) Jon Snow discovering who his mother was, and 3) if the eunuch and hot woman get together. Huge stuff right there.



Now, there is an up-side. At least stuff is happening. Dany opened the pits and we saw dragons and she is getting married (just as silly as in the books). At least there is forward momentum. I would have liked to have seen more but at least there is something from all this NOTHING!



And Tyrion and Mormont. Mormont has gray-scale. I don’t care either. IN the books a guy who had ACTUAL AUTHORITY had grayscale so him potentially going crazy is interesting. A guy who has it who has NO AUTHORITY AT ALL? Not. So. Much.



Its like the show runners know the words, but not the music.



But lets talk about Jaime. Or Arya. Cersei? Or any of a bunch of other characters who we know are potentially doing stuff that actually matters.



NOPE! Too much … this other stuff. All repeated from prior episodes.



See… the down-side with killing all your characters is that eventually SOMEBODY has to be left who you actually want to see do stuff. Tyrion, Dany, Jon… SOMEBODY FUCKING DO SOMETHING!!!! And don’t make it seem like you are doing it because you are a lunatic.



Some stuff happened that was worthwhile- Stannis moved South; Dany took some action with the fighting pits. We saw dragons; Lady Bolton is pregnant.



But where are we? IS anything happening? What is the story we are following? Where is our investment? Is any of it interesting?



This was, for me, one of the worst episodes of GoT I have ever seen. It could get better. But, right now, I can see how the show-runners are staring to list HARD to starboard; they don’t have a plan and they are not writing the story I was ever interested in. Its showing now more than ever.


Edited by Rockroi

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There was nothing awesome about this for me. All I could think was, if that guy wasn't against Dany before then she's just given him several reasons to be. I felt genuinely sorry for him. This isn't even your regular forced marriage in Planetos taking into consideration that the guy's father was crucified by Dany too. What is even happening?

It seems that young Dany may be turning towards the dark side of the force.

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I wrote this in the rant and rave thread, but I kinda need to post it here too, because it's really bothering me:

I'm very uncomfortable by Dany's "proposal" to Hizdahr. The guy goes from fearing for his life and genuinely believing he's about to be eaten alive by her dragons to being told he has no choice but to marry her. If they sleep together, I won't be able to see it as anything but marital rape, because that dude is not willing. What they wanted to portray as an empowered moment on Dany's behalf turned into a very sketchy scene.

There was nothing awesome about this for me. All I could think was, if that guy wasn't against Dany before then she's just given him several reasons to be. I felt genuinely sorry for him. This isn't even your regular forced marriage in Planetos taking into consideration that the guy's father was crucified by Dany too. What is even happening?

It was certainly a strange sequence. I get that they want to more overtly show the transition she goes through by the end of the book, but they seem to have used Barristan's death to push her very far ahead, and used the marriage proposal scene to show she's vacillating and walking herself back- but it didn't convincingly do that because of the coercive nature of her proposal.

My impression is that the moment when Drogon returns won't be a moment of pent up emotion and climax, it will be more like "what took you so long, I've been feeding people to my dragons for four episodes now".

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Yes Dany is mad for sure, and we are expecting Tyrion to sought her out what is he a therapist.


First of all she comes into a strange land knows nothing of its culture and history, and initiates a radical revolution that destabilizes everything. Then she goes about murdering people good or bad doesn't matter really but who she thinks has done wrong and kills them wrecking families.


Barristan dies yes very sad but she learned nothing from his counsel, she goes around burning men without knowing what they have done when Barristan implored her to be more just and patient. Then she threatens marriage to a guy clearly terrified whose father she murdered again without a trial, woman is out of her mind.


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We've seen Jaime go from Westeros' most hated man to a pretty sound guy, no reason why we can't see Dany go from the one everyone loves to the one everyone hates. And she's less boring crazy


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Well, this was an interesting episode. I'm still not a fan of the whole Grey Worm/Missandrei plot so I can't say I much cared for their scenes. Nor for Barristan's fairly pointless death. Dany feeding one of the masters to her dragons... well an awesome scene, even if it reinforces my belief she's her father's daughter. With the episode title, I'm really surprised Gilly's child wasn't threatened and it was just referring to Aemon's quote. I'm also surprised that Aemon wasn't threatened either, especially with his first scene lamenting over his family. Makes me wonder what they're going to do with him, though the Citadel plot still seems to be in order given Sam all but explained what it is to the Unsullied. I enjoyed the scene between Jon and Tormund. Sure it's a deviation, but yeah Jon has to do something for the rest of the season and I suppose that sets up the Ides of Marsh as well as anything. Brienne's scene seemed pointless except to say "Hey I'm still here" to the audience, much akin to Stannis' season 3 scenes. Sansa... has the creepiest in-law's ever. Even she's disgusted about what Ramsay's done to Theon, even if she thinks he killed her brothers. But looks like the show down between Roose and Stannis is coming. Guess Jorah sorta took Jon Connington's place as the greyscale victim, but given all the explanations of it the last few episodes, this was fairly predictable. I mean we didn't expect Tyrion to get it did we? The shot of them staring at Drogon was awesome though.



All in all, I'd have to say this is the weakest episode so far this season. Pretty much just seems to be setting the table for what's to come. Nothing wrong with that, but I was hoping for a bit more meat and a bit less frosting.


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