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[Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

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Clunky painfully obvious bell ringing on the Jon = Targ angle.



If this ep proves anything, it's that both the books and the show would be vastly improved by just killing Dany off. Lord her scenes are painful. ANd the show couldn't make anymore sense of her marrying Hizdhar than the books could. DIRE.



Jorah gets Greyscale. I like it.



Winterfell continues to be riveting.



The Wall arc is moving along swimmingly.


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When Ramsay ordered Theon to kneel in front of him, was anyone else wondering for a second if Ramsay was going to demand a blowjob?

Yup. Just mentioned it in the Rant and Rave thread.

Why couldn't he just give him his hand standing up lol. I think it was definitely hinting that Theon was gonna blow him

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Could work for one of three betrayals.

Parallel between Jon and Olly/Dany and Missendei? I don't really buy that something is up for her, but

Edited by dogprivilege

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I love how upset and angry Sansa looked after seeing Theon/Reek in those kennels.

me too. I was mad too.

Edited by Brittany Nielsen

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Idk she was rather savvy when it came to getting the unsullied. Shes better when she acts instead of sitting around hoping for good stuff to happen. I wouldn't call him her best adviser. At least in the show he hasn't gotten anything really right. Jorah has been more right than him and she sent him packing.

Respectfully disagree that Barristan hasn't gotten anything right in his advising of Dany. He just recently called her on becoming like her father and what do we see tonight? Ta-dah! Standard Mad King-like behavior from our heroine.

Did you see any horror or remorse on her face when the dragons were eating that poor asshole? I think I actually saw excitement. Scary stuff.

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Anyone else here think that Roose is totally going to use Ramsay as a pawn and basically let him get killed by Stannis?

Also, the Grey Worm/Missandei scene was absolute garbage. Why on Earth are they pushing this storyline?

Missandei is The Sons of the Harpy.

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Other than not caring at all about Grey Worm and Missandei, and really missing Arya (but I miss Arya in any episode without her), I loved this episode. I thought it was fabulous, probably the best of the season so far and I've enjoyed every episode thus far.

- I agree they're hitting the Jon = Targareyan anvils pretty hard, but I don't mind.

- Stannis is becoming oddly adorable.

- Ramsey is still psychotically cray-cray and his daddy dearest is showing that Ramsey is very much his son.

- We do get it, the North Remembers.

- Selyse is quickly becoming one of my least favorite characters (why is she such a bitch?).

-Tyrion and Jorah's ride into Valyria was cool. Tyrion's reaction to Drogon was awesome.

- The Stone Men fight sequence was fabulous. I knew that Jorah was so lying. Good on the posters who called that Jorah was getting the disease in place of JonCon.

- As for Dany's "proposal," I don't think we were supposed to think of it as anything other than political and Dany laying down the law. That smile on her face was not a nice one. And Hizdahr looked scared out of his ever-loving mind. She's done playing games. She tried diplomacy. She tried being fair-minded. She tried doing the whole trial by jury. And she was betrayed by those close and trusted to her, and turned on by the people she was trying to help, and then one of her most trusted advisors and friends was killed and another nearly died. She's basically done with this bullshit and she's done with their games. They are going to play by her rules now. She is the mother of dragons. They best be aware of the power she has because she is going to wield it.

Great episode.

Edited by mirthula

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Yup. Just mentioned it in the Rant and Rave thread.

Why couldn't he just give him his hand standing up lol. I think it was definitely hinting that Theon was gonna blow him

I wanted it to be a nod to the Ramsay didn't physically castrate Theon theory.

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They're bowing to her, not to Hizdahr. Hizdahr's terrified, as she observes, but he Valar Morghules his way out of the situation because he was willing to meet his death head on, which made her second guess herself? There's no indication that she comes to the realization that he's the Harpy.

Nothing about that scene suggested Hizdahr would have a modicum of power after their marriage. He was shocked and I have a very hard time imagining that he sees the current situation as a way for him to shine and gain power. He was utterly helpless in that scene; the guy was even on his frickin knees.

I doubt Dany's thinking that far. it appears Dany's not even thinking at all. It just seems like D&D are checking off all major events from aFfC/aDwD and nevermind that some of these don't fit into the story they've created.

Seriously. Dany feeds a random guy to her dragons to avenge Barry. She then goes on to mention how Barry advised mercy and compassion, completely ignoring that she just did the opposite. Missandei kisses her ass and tells her to only listen to herself. Dany decides to marry Hizdahr because? Why? She just burned one of the nobility alive. They're not gonna view the marriage as her making an attempt to make peace with them or choosing neutrality. She already burned that bridge. And going by the trailer, no one's buying into it.

It seems like they are going more and more trying to break Dany into someone who just can't rule. She did not inherit essos and no one is expecting her back in westeros either. She is going to a place where no one wants her and is trying to lord over them, so how is it done. This is where her own abilities come into play how does she strategize and find a way out or is there a way out or when is it time to call it quits and when does she needs to be just and when does she force her will. We know from the history of essos this is not something Dany can fix in the next year, it is like she wants a quick resolution and hope on her way to Westeros. She is not committed to her rule and thinking how is she going to bring about an effective change that will benefit everyone and that will last for generations.

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...

yes kill off stannis when i am starting to like him. i hope shireen lives but i think she is toast literally. you know she is definitely in the running for having the worst parents, stannis is not abusive but a cold and distant father who lets his wife torture the poor girl is not any better, stannis loves her sure but poor child needs a father who can openly show his love and protect her....

Meh, if my 'cold and distant' father was a man who went through all means to save me from greyscale then I'm perfectly fine with that :dunno:

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I am still waiting to wake up from this nightmare.

GoT is turning out to be a very poorly and sloppily written tv series.

RIP

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The scene when Sansa walks threw the kennels i was totally expecting to see the rotten corpse of Rob Stark and Graywind all up sowed together

ANYONE ELTS?

Literally I honestly thought it was gonna be bran and rickon before i realized halfway through it was obvs theon

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The scene when Sansa walks threw the kennels i was totally expecting to see the rotten corpse of Rob Stark and Graywind all up sowed together

ANYONE ELTS?

I thought it was gonna be Catelyn's corpse, but then I realized that was stupid.

Edited by arabian

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Well....the dragon has three heads, although the TV serIes really hasn't stressed this. Dany and Jon make mistakes and are still struggling to be effective leaders. I believe Tyrion is the 3rd head and really don't expect much of them until they are all together.......hopefully fighting the OTHERS.

I'd much rather see Jon leading the Others against Dany's Dragons...

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Based on Sam's conversation, perhaps they cast Tyene a bit boyishly because she's standing in for Sarella?

I wondered why the character had been radically altered, but it makes more sense if that is the purpose.

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Idk she was rather savvy when it came to getting the unsullied. Shes better when she acts instead of sitting around hoping for good stuff to happen. I wouldn't call him her best adviser. At least in the show he hasn't gotten anything really right. Jorah has been more right than him and she sent him packing.

In a sense, but there her savviness was in the deceitfulness of her plan; what's being suggested is a whole different level of perceptiveness and in the moment thinking.

I agree Barristan hasn't been that good of an advisor to her, and that Jorah was much better when he was there, but who's better than Barristan right now? Hizdahr? Daario? Grey Worm? She really doesn't have any good advisors anymore and Barristan was the best of a bad bunch

Yes. I was actually relieved when he asked him for his hand, sadly enough.

I really loved that scene, first for making me also think along that same line, and then for just how deftly Ramsay has absolutely broken Reek. Like the scene were he gave him a bath those two are just acting out this absolute power relationship beautifully. Twisted and Dark, but magnificently done and truly evil genius shit from Ramsay.

Edited by cgf

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Hey all! Back this week to tell you why this episode was terrible. I'm keeping the language PG this week to avoid being banned again!


-The ep starts with Missandei and Grey Worm, so D&D can remind us of the plot they clearly value the most in the series by this point


-BARRISTAN IS ACTUALLY FREAKIN DEAD. BRAVO D&FREAKIN D. I guess he wasn't "important", just like Euron, Victarion, Aegon, Connington, any kind of interesting stuff in Slaver's Bay, LSH, Arianne, Quentyn, and anything else that's interesting. But at least apparently fucking Missandei and Grey Worm still important, given how much they're freakin featured in this fucking episode. And Note that this because the actor disagreed with these two geniuses, and they were petty enough to kill him off then gloat about it in subsequent interviews.


-Hizdhar has been character assassinated HARD. A ruthless morally ambiguous shady Machiavellian to a whiny sychophant. Bravo Bravo BRAVO. And he's a minority character, I thought D&D would be all over him instead of letting him rot. But given that they apparently didn't read the last 2 books of the series, maybe this Hizdhar is their own banal interpretations.


-OH THIS FREAKIN DANY DRAGON SCENE. EL O FUCKING EL. She spends half of like 2 episodes ago going on about muh fair trials and murdering her own people over said fair trials, then she just randomly murders a Meereenese nobleman for no freakin reason openly admitting he has no idea if he did anything wrong. This is the pinnacle of writing D&D. Your poetry rhymes beyond my simple book reader comprehension. All I can say to this character consistency is HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSS


-THEY ACTUALLY INCLUDED "KILL THE BOY JON". It's sad that this actually AMAZED me. I thought D&D would needlessly change yet another iconic scene/quote just to be jerks. "Vanquish the Child", "Remove the youngling", "Circumvent the juvenile" or what have you.


-Tormund being some mopy, angry, serious uninteresting piece of garbage instead of our based HARbro. Why can't D&D understand characters?


-"We'll need ships to get to Hardholme". Why do you need Stannis' ship? Does Eastwatch not exist anymore even though the show has mentioned it before? Yet another thing D&D just hopes the audience forgets about, I suppose.


-WHY DOES JON HAVE TO GO TO HARDHOLME. IT MAKES NO SENSE. "They need to hear it from the Lord Commander". NO, THEY NEED TO HEAR IT FROM ONE OF THEIR OWN, LIKE YOU TORMUND. The Wildlings don't give a flying flick about the Lord Commander. Not to mention this torpedoes the Winterfell-Jon plot, which was actually goddamned interesting. No pink letter. Just durrrr we need ships I'm with this emo-Tormund zombie piece of shit. The logistical inconsistencies of original content in this show just hurts my head by this point.


-Oh look, it's olly. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong at all. We all know by this point how much I love this wonderful addition to the show (look at my past reviews), especially given how many other "inferior" characters like Euron, Manderly, and Belwas were cut. I'm not having a nosebleed and ripping out my own tonsils atm.


-Dolorous Ed has 1 line in the show, and it's just some stupid throwaway nothing. The most based man in the Night's Watch has NONE of his redeeming qualities in what is probably his only scene this seaosn. Bravo at that character assassination D&D. Do you think we give a damn if you show a character without any concept of what they're actually like? I'd rather have no Ed at all.


-WHERE THE FREAK ARE BRIENNE AND POD. This town that's in magical view of Winterfell. Is it Wintertown? No...Wintertown is actually RIGHT NEXT to Winterfell's main gate. SO WHERE ARE THEY. LOOK AT A MAP D&D.


-D&D assassinated Ramsay HARD this episode. First with this ridiculous cringey girlfriend sub-plot. Ramsay chained his last wife to a bed and let her starve to death, but has a clear kinky birds-of-a-feather romance with this crazy annoying lady. Why did they turn Ramsay from a chilling psychopath into some one-liner lovestruck sexy Heath Ledger Joker parody? Do they think it's hip?


-WHY IS SANSA DRESSED LIKE A DOMINATRIX STILL. I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.


-This Sansa-Ramsay girlfriend catfight. Holyyyy crap. D&D in their infinite wisdom again inserted an original content character to dominate yet another original content plot in place of one of those "inferior" book plots like Ironborn or battles with Yunkai or Manderly or what have you. No, instead we have Sansa and Ramsay's edgelord bestie competing for him in another nonsensical clustermess. B.R.A.V.O. D.AND.D.


-And one more thing, why wouldn't Sansa know who the Kennelmasters daughter is? These people grew up together. All the Winterfell kids knew Farlan (see D&D, I actually pay attention to who these characters you use as throwaways are!), they'd know this daughter of his.


-The Winterfell Kennel's are a fucking zoo with individual steel cages for each animal. Goddamnit D&D.


-Why would anyone care if Sansa knew Theon was here? It's public knowledge Ramsay has Theon, he sent his skin/whatever to Balon and other Lords. The shows attempt to make it a OMG SECRET Ramsay has Theon is idiotic. So apparently everybody can know Sansa is alive and in Winterfell being married to a Lannister ally despite being wanted for regicide, but not that Theon is being held by Ramsay still. DAT ORIGINAL CONTENT LOGIC.


-Plus, the whole Theon dynamic is off. Ramsay uses Theon and Reek interchangeably, instead of literally erasing his identity from Theon's mind in the books. He tells Theon to apologize for what he did, whereas in the books Ramsay literally tells "Reek" to pretend to be "Theon". But, ya know, we can't have more disturbingly subtle or interesting stuff in this banal garbage show.


-Stannis PRANCING AROUND WINTERFELL BY HIMSELF AND WITHOUT A GUARDS, SERVANTS, OR EVEN A WEAPON. O HEY SAM I JUST WANTED TO GO TELL YOU TO READ A BOOK IN PERSON. HO BOY, THIS MAKES SENSE. Another logical inconsistency from this appears later on in the ep which I get to below.


-The Sam and Stannis scene was absolutely useless. What was the goddamned point of this? Remind the audience that Sam's dad is Randyll? Remind people that Obsidian kills Others? Well some people can actually remember that on their own, D&D. Just because you expect the show to be dumbed down doesn't mean it has to be.


-Stannis bringing Shireen and Selyse to the Battle at Winterfell. LEL. This is so stupid and reckless that book Stannis would never even consider it. And what's his logic for this nonsensical decision? "hurrr The Wall is dangerous cuz the Watch are criminals". Well apparently it's so dangerous that you and your wife and your daughter are all freely waltzing around alone without any escorts or anything. YOUR PLOT IS TRULY POETRY OF THE MOST EPIC LEVELS, D&D.


-Davos going to Winterfell with Stannis to just serve as an exposition lackey instead of going to Skagos. Buh bye interesting future plot full of epic Mad Max cannibals and Unicorns and Rickon. Hello nothing.


-"I'll need those ships back" says Stannis. NO YOU WON'T. EASTWATCH EXISTS. YOU CAN'T MAKE ME FORGET D&D.


-GREY WORM IS STILL ALIVE. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! They kill BARRISTAN THE BOLD and leave GREY WORM alive. Why? So we can be blessed with the grandeur and quality of the Grey Worm-Missandei romance subplot?! APPARENTLY, BECAUSE D&D WASTE THE NEXT 6 MINUTES ON IT AGAIN. And even better, we have this useless scene where Missandei gives advice to Dany and Dany comes to a complete unrelated conclusion! Why are these two useless characters being shoved down our throats amid all the cuts?


-Dany just randomly comes to the decision to reopen the fighting pits and marry Hizdhar for no reason. Cuz tradition and something. Ya know in the books, the non-completely-dumb Dany actually had to be lobbied and lobbied and prodded and backed into a corner before agreeing to this.


-And is this what the Slaver's Bay plot is now? You got rid of the whole war plot, which was the saving grave of it in the books. So now we just have CGI dragons, grey worm x Missandei brilliance, and Dany just spouting stupid speeches. BRAVOx3 DEE AND DEE.


-Jorah is apparently going to sail hundreds (thousands?) of miles that is between Volantis and Meereen, brave the Smoking Sea and pirates and demons, and make this incredible journey that few dare IN A FREAKIN OPEN-TOPPED RIVER DINGY WITH NO SUPPLIES. D&D not knowing how ships and distances worked would be forgivable if they could write a freakin plot.


-Tyrion is so terrible, and I say that knowing all the criticism ADWD Tyrion gets. hurr durr alcohol quip, another alcohol quip, hurr durr le maymay humor. Oh knock it off D&D. People don't like ADWD D&D but seeing him semi-insane, beating up prostitutes, and talking about raping and murdering Cersei was far more entertaining than this tired dry nonsense. Because shades of grey actually exist in the books.


-Why is the SMOKING SEA a perfectly calm and serine body instead of a torrent of volcanic instability and nuclear winter like it's supposed to be?!?! I mean first you put them in Valyria instead of the Rhyone, which I don't really care about, but at least freakin do the place justice.


-Include Stone Men, no Shrouded Lord and seeming creepy teleportation stuff. Way to ruin that whole scene and just reduce it to Walking Dead KILL DA ZOMBIES shit.


-Jorah having Greyscale. HE MUST DIE TOO. ONLY GREY WORM CAN BE BY DANY'S SIDE. GREY WORM IS AZOR AHAI. THEY ARE THE THREE HEADED DRAGON. GREY WORM AND MISSANDEI WILL RULE ALL OF PLANETOS.


I be back next week! Weekly reminder that the show has been garbage since season 2 and the books are better!

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