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[Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

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Yeah, it was a mess. It's especially dissapointing because I feel Meereen has been one of the high points of the season until this episode.

I know, I had also been very pleased with Meereen this season. I hope they explain Dany's decision in the next episode.

Perhaps will get her talk with Daario about not wanting to be a butcher queen.

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Bad bad episode.

My thoughts

Lmao you are like the only on youcraptubes who actually gives the right rating and criticism. Well lets be honest you could do a bit better cause I would give the episode a 0.1. A 2/10 is too much of a respectable grade.

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I did the same thing. I even went back and watched the scene a second time. If we were going to get a glimpse at Dany "the mad queen" that was the scene to do it. As much as I hated that scene (especially after her talk with Barristan a couple episodes ago), at least they didn't go that route.

Dany isn't mad, and she isn't going to be. I can't imagine GRRM taking one of his main characters that way.

Dany has been mad since the beginning.

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Dany has been mad since the beginning.

Ah, no she has not. We are in her head, we know she's not mad.

The show like the books is clearly going for Cersei, the mad queen.

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Dany has been mad since the beginning.

Not in the books I'm reading. They're by GRRM, check them out sometime.

She's probably the most reflective character in the story. The idea she's mad is completely unsupported. It would also be a disservice to the character. She's much more complex than that.

Edited by Nictarion

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Dany's being worked over by Missandei. No idea why unless Missandei is the Harpy on the show, but tonight Dany wondered how things had turned so bad, and Missandei said it was because Dany didn't listen to her advisors and that's why Dany's successful? And Dany bought that? Newsflash: Dany's a disaster, and Missandei is encouraging it. This is not book_Missandei. And that's why D&D showed too much Missandei and Grey Worm: not the romance, but Missandei's character. (Maybe she's not the Harpy, but something's going on with her.)

I've long predicted that Missandei will betray Dany for love. I think the show will try to show that with her relationship with Grey Worm. And the books might show it with one of her brothers.

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Is it just my impression or are there fewer storylines per episode this season? Maybe it's because team Dragonstone is at the wall.

Yes, there are fewer storylines. A lot of the ones we had in the previous seasons have converged by now. Basically we have Jon+ Sam and Gilly + Stannis' team on on side, and

Sansa+the Boltons+Brienne on the other. Together with King's Landing and Mereen they make the for major storylines of the season. And then we have Braavos and Dorne.

I don't think the show has had only six storylines since season 2 or 3.

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Stupid Ramsay. He needs a brother, Pops has two castles to pass down. Not his way of thinking though.

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Really great episode! It is clear that the changes in the plot are paying off.



First, Valyria. The show could have saved about five million bucks by just having Tyrion talk about it with Jorah. Instead we have a full set, landscape, everything. I suspect that we will see this again when Danny takes off on Drogon. This is going to be where he takes her. Much better story arc.



In the books it isn't necessary for any of the lead characters to go there in person. But in the show it is the only way to put Valyria on screen. And Valyria is critical as a stakes raiser: in this world whole civilizations can fall in an afternoon.



"The North Remembers", is a pretty strong reminder that this is the place where Sansa has agency and the support of the locals. But she has to choose her moment. Brienne has no trouble getting a message in to her.



Remember that Theon knows that Sansa's brothers are alive. That is the key piece of information that LF does not know.





I was pretty sure that Oldtown was cut from the show, but there was a whole scene this week that really didn't do anything other than introduce the idea of it and Sam and Gilly in connection to it. There must be something really important there, given how many other plots have been culled.





I am certain that we will see lots of oldtown in season 6. The maesters did something to kill off the dragons. Now they are needed again. Also, I think the Ironborn will make a return to the story then and be raiding oldtown. Else what is the point of Yara?



GRRM had far too much going on, hence the Meryneese knot. The showrunners have addressed the same issue by sliding large parts of books four and five into season six.





We may not get Mando pies in the show, but for some reason after watching this episode, I think Walda, Walder, and many other Freys will get to meet Nymeria and her pack in season 6. Especially if we don't get LS.





Not sure on the Mando pies thing. With an army at the gate, Roose isn't going to want to waste time on a wedding. In fact the best time for a wedding feast would be after he has defeated Stannis and made himself Warden of the North to bring the clans round him.







My theory is that yes, Selyse tries to sacrifice Shireen, but Stannis decides to burn Selyse instead. :D





Nah, I think Brienne is going to rescue Shireen to spite Stannis who is going to freeze to death with his army as a result. The sacrifice of Shireen is surely to lift the snow.



That frees Mel to go back to the wall.






I love how upset and angry Sansa looked after seeing Theon/Reek in those kennels.





And the kennelmasters daughter is doing it so it won't be a surprise. Very interesting because normally she might be jealous of her rival, instead she recognizes that its Ramsay that is breaking his part of the bargain. He is not going to marry her even if Sansa is disappeared and he is not going to let her go either.






Oh Ok



Without Aegon in the show, who will be the third dragon rider???





Aegon has already demonstrated he is no dragon rider. He is obviously a fake Targ. Its Tyrion and Jon.



Tyrion is going to get fed to the dragons at some point and survive. See book of Daniel.

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Yes, there are fewer storylines. A lot of the ones we had in the previous seasons have converged by now. Basically we have Jon+ Sam and Gilly + Stannis' team on on side, and

Sansa+the Boltons+Brienne on the other. Together with King's Landing and Mereen they make the for major storylines of the season. And then we have Braavos and Dorne.

I don't think the show has had only six storylines since season 2 or 3.

We have more than enough story lines. Consolidating some of them was essential. I count more than you do:

1) Jon/Nightswatch/Free folk. [stannis]

2) Sansa/Bolton [Littlefinger] [stannis]

3) Cersei/Sparrow [Littlefinger] [ser Meryn/Tyrell]

4) Jorah/Tyrion

5) Danny &ct.

6) Arya. [ser Meryn/Tyrell]

7) Jamie in Dorne

------

[ 8 The White Walkers/Bran ]

[ 9 The Ironborn ]

There are seven main plot lines this season and three sets of characters who cross from one plot arc to another to keep them moving. Tyrion is arguably connecting the Kings Landing arc to the Danny arc but he takes a whole book to do so.

D&D can easily keep the series going through nine seasons if they want to. There is more than enough material, only a few of the actors are really critical to keeping the series going and HBO is more than willing to pony up as much money as it takes.

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So like three episodes after the infamous trial/execution Danny suddenly decides to ignore her previous rule about not killing people without a trial. So shouldn't she be executed for randomly murdering a potential suspect???

But of course she is one of the biggest hypocrites around...when she is wronged its ok to kill people without finding definitive proof.

Dany will justify it by saying she didn't kill him, the dragon did. That's how she justified it in an earlier episode. "My dragons made no such promise and you threatened their mother."

Stupid Ramsay. He needs a brother, Pops has two castles to pass down. Not his way of thinking though.

I know. I was surprised that Roose didn't mention it.

I was happy with the stone men being included--that was fun. I really expected a mention that Tyrion had previously met Jorah's dad at the Wall and didn't believe the concerns about white walkers. That would have been a nice tie-in to season 1.

I've seen a lot of comments about the lack of subtlety in the show,but from my experience watching other shows without the benefit of having read the book on which they are based, subtlety is difficult in this type of story, with so many twists and Characters, in this medium.

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We have more than enough story lines. Consolidating some of them was essential. I count more than you do:

You are right, I missed Tyrion in my count. So its KL, Wall, Winterfell, Dorne, Braavos, Mereen and Tyrion. Still, seven storylines are fewer than we were used to.

For instance, if we compare to season 3:

1) King's Landing (Tyrion, Cersei, Tywin, Sansa)*

2) Robb's campaing (Robb+Cat+ Talisa)

3) The Wildlings (Jon+Ygritte)

4) The Night's Watch (Sam+Gilly)

5) Bran+Rickon+Osha+the Reeds

6) Dragonstone (Stannis, Davos, Melisandre)

7) Dreadfort (Theon+Ramsay)

8) Brienne and Jaime

9) Arya

10) Astapor and Yunkai (Dany+Jorah)

*It's also worth considering that the KL in S5 is much more focused (in Cersei vs- the Tyrells) than in S3, where there where multiple subplots.

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I want to like Dany, I really do. She just makes it very hard. Again with the killing people who may or may not be guilty? Now forcing Hizdahr to marry her...all I could think about in that scene was that if the situations were reversed and it was Dany cowering on the floor, forced to marry the man who killed her father, being threatened with death if she didn't, we'd have tons of sympathy. But, Dany's pretty, I guess, so...yeah. I hated that. Just ew.



I hope Missandei is setting her up for betrayal. Otherwise, I just hate storytime wasted on the whole thing with her and Grey Worm. I do not care about these people!



I can't figure out what is going on with Sansa, but she is definitely getting some key bits of information. She could use Ramsay's fear that the new baby will take his place to manipulate him against his father, but it seems the show is setting it up for her to escape.



I still think the adorable Shireen is toast, but maybe she'll survive and bring literacy to the world.



The appearance of the stone men was really well done. It does make you understand the worries over greyscale, which is clearly going to be a plot point.



I totally thought Ramsay was going to make Theon give him a blowjob.


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i'm beginning to think that D&D are aware of the intended ending to GRRM's story, and they are electing to offer this alternate plot as a way to preserve the "true conclusion" to ASOIAF for readers.



there have been several "doffing the hat" moments in the show that give me more faith in D&D as book purists who have no choice but to make a compelling TV show out of an essentially un-film-able series of events.



"keep reading, Samwell Tarly" was as much of a breaking of the 4th wall as we're going to get.



i am finding this season far more interesting and clever in the way they are combining plots/characters; vs. previously just eliminating/inventing stories for the sake of expediency and budget.


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Ironic that the broken tower started all of this and will be Sansa's emergency call now.

It is not easy to climb up the Broken Tower in the case of emergency. It is not easy to light a candle either. And wouldn't the winter howling wind put it out within nanoseconds anyway? This is so stupid, my brain hurts. Yes, in case of emergency, do not go down fire escape. Play hopscotch in the corridor, then leap through some ring ropes, make a pirouette, sing the top song from the charts, play some video games and ... ah, wait a minute. I have been dead for a while.... Ah, well...

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Did the dragonglass conversation take place in the books? I want to say no. It does seem like they need to sail south one way or the other. For Oldtown and/or Dragonstone.

Yes it did, but not between Sam and Stannis. Stannis ordered dragonglass to be mined on Dragonstone.

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Loved that Sansa didn't cower during the Bolton dinner. Then, there's poor Fat Walda looking pretty durn nervous. When you're a member of the Frey family, what could be worse? Oh, the Bolton family.

Fat Valda is a woman in love. Remember all the love letters she kept sending to Roose in Harrenhal? And now she is carrying her love child. So nice... Of wait ... This is GoT and this means she is dead.

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